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The Fandom Portals Podcast
Exploring "Avatar the Last Air Bender" Rich Lore and Character Depth, Book 1: Water with Luke Newton
Animation lovers, brace yourselves for a captivating adventure through the world of "Avatar: The Last Airbender," as we celebrate Animation Celebration month alongside the International Day of Animation. This episode features our special guest, animation aficionado Luke Newton, who shares his journey from watching classics like Dragon Ball and Yu-Gi-Oh to developing a profound appreciation for Avatar. We promise an insightful journey through Book One: Water, exploring exceptional character development, intricate plots, and the series' immersive world-building. Luke's deep knowledge of the series enhances our understanding of its themes, making this episode a must-listen for both new and longtime fans.
Delving into the compelling character arcs, we analyze key figures like Iroh, Zuko, Sokka, Katara, and Aang. From Iroh's wisdom and Zuko's tumultuous journey to Sokka's transformation from comic relief to strategic leader, each character's growth is meticulously examined. We highlight Aang's struggle with his Avatar responsibilities and his evolving relationship with Zuko. Join us for a thoughtful reflection on the real-life lessons embedded within this beloved series, and prepare for future episodes where we'll continue to explore the saga's remaining books.
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Is Avatar the Last Airbender the best cartoon ever made? What real-life lessons can you learn from this children's animation? All that and more with my guest, luke Newton, on this episode of the Fandom Portals Podcast. Welcome to the Fandom Portals podcast, where curiosity finds community in a celebration of all things geek. In every episode, we dive deep and answer your favorite fandom questions in the time it takes you to slide through the mail chutes of a marshoo. I'm your host, aaron Davies, and today we are answering the question. Is Avatar the Last Airbender the best cartoon ever made? Today we're going to be focusing on book one, which is the water book, with book two and book three coming later on in the year, and this episode is going to focus on three main aspects that make this show the best. It's the character arc and developments, the layered plot and story structure, and the world building and lore. And this episode is part of our ongoing series in October called Animation Celebration, and we feature a community question with a focus on animation because we are celebrating the International Day of Animation on the 28th of October.
Speaker 1:Listeners, I want you to get ready for a very exciting deep dive with a very special guest, and I'm thrilled to welcome luke newton, an animation aficionado whose passion for avatar is truly unmatched. Luke isn't just a lifelong friend, he's a walking encyclopedia of all things avatar the last airbender, from the rich lore of passing, say, to the northern water tribe, character arcs that define the series, to the world building and mythology. Luke's deep knowledge and enthusiasm for avatar will captivate you. Here he is. It's luke newton. How you going today, buddy? Yeah, pretty good. Thanks. How are you? Yeah, not too bad. It's great to be here with you today. So we're talking about avatar the last airbender today, but your story with animation begun way before you. You watched avatar the last airbender, so what sorts of animations did you watch? What's your story with animation? Where did it begin for you? What's your origin story?
Speaker 2:uh. So it sort of all began, I'd say, with dragon ball. That's pretty much where I got into how it all started to me. And then, obviously, when I had a toasted tv as well, growing up before school eating cereal. So it was, yeah, pretty much. Yeah, dragon ball, dragon ball z and yugioh, like the main ones. Like like it was my introduction into, like, anime I would say um, and then all throughout high school and stuff, I always watched it because I had a lot of time on school holidays and stuff to watch anime. So, yeah, that's pretty much how I got into it with um avatar the last airbender.
Speaker 1:You, you sort of we. We have a history of watching things together as well, and you came up for a visit one time. We started watching star wars season seven, the clone wars, which is an animated series as well, and really exciting piece of television you showed me and then we were actually going to do our topic on that, but eventually you came to the conclusion that you wanted to talk about avatar the last airbender. So it obviously holds a pretty special place in your heart if you think it's going to top that. So what's your introduction with avatar the last airbender? What do you think personally makes it so great To start?
Speaker 2:is the thing that makes it so great is the world. Like the world they've built, the characters, the lore, like all of those things combine and they take a lot of inspiration from real life cultures and people and they just sort of mesh it all together and it just works so well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I 100% agree, and there's been a lot of talk about Avatar in my peripheries for a very long time, but this is the first time I've kind of dove in and watched the whole thing front to back, start to finish. So I've also seen like episodes here and there, but never watched it from. You know, episode one, book one, all the way through, full disclosure to the listeners. I am up to the start of the second book now. So today, luke and I are going to be talking spoilers, obviously spoilers.
Speaker 1:It's a 2006 series, but we're deep diving onto book one, which is the Book of Water, and we are going to be talking about those themes, those lessons, the world building and also some of the character arcs of book one, but not going any further because we want to do the second book and the third book in other episodes of the Fandom Portals podcast which will be released later this year. So to start off with Luke, you mentioned that some of the aspects of the world building of Avatar really draw you to the cartoon itself. So one thing for me is the four nations and their cultures. So can you give us a little bit of a brief rundown the four cultures, the four nations and some of the things that define those four cultures as we are introduced to these for the first time in book one.
Speaker 2:With Avatar you've got the four nations, you've got the water, earth, fire and air and obviously we're introduced to book, one being water and we're in the South Pole. So we get first introduced to waterbenders and not actually waterbenders, because we don't actually see a waterbender proper until later on in the series. But Katara is doing her first sort of movements of becoming a waterbender. You can see that when she gets in arguments with Sokka and whatnot. But yeah, so you have your water and then you've got your earth and then your fire, air. Obviously we see airbending through Aang and we see earthbending and firebending through further characters in the series, but also Zuko as well in the first episode, sorry, second episode. So obviously they are separated like first off, as like white colors. Obviously they got blue for water, green for earth, red for fire and like yellowy orange for air.
Speaker 2:I guess what really separates them is the way they are as a people and culture. You know your firebenders are much more like sort of like imperial, sort of like China, japan-esque. I mean earthbenders are. You know, all their structures are built from earth by them. Waterbenders obviously surround themselves with water North Pole, South Pole, swamps and then you obviously get your air nomads, which are up in the mountains and usually highly elevated, above everyone else. So that's sort of what separates them and their cultures are very different as well. So, obviously, your waterbenders, they're more of a focused on community, focused on the tribe, the people, um, and then obviously with your.
Speaker 1:With your, we don't know too much about the air nomads as of book one, because we are only seeing it through what we see with ang and I think the, as you were saying about the fire nation, they're probably well, from what I can see, to be the most most technologically advanced tribe or culture, almost taking that industrial side with their warships and obviously using iron a lot more than any other culture. It's kind of really pushed them forward, you could say, in their territorial expanse, which is another big theme of the avatar universe. That is introduced to you pretty early, I think by episode two, actually probably even episode one. You're introduced to the fact that there is a historical conflict or a hundred year war that's been going on between the fire nation and everybody else. So even in the introduction, you know, the katara voiceover says the fire nation attacked and that that hundredyear war is kind of going on. So across the series there has been lots of impact on that war.
Speaker 2:There is that voiceover that has been at war for 100 years and a lot of people viewed the Fire Nation as the enemy. No one likes firebenders and you don't really see too many firebenders that are not affiliated with the Fire Nation, so it's really sort of impacted. You see, as season one goes on, you can see that they've taken over a lot of few towns of the Earth Kingdom and you can see that they're slowly trying to invade and take Earth Kingdom territory. They haven't had any success with the major cities of the Earth Kingdom as of yet. So throughout the book you can see that they sort of envelop and take over everything that they sort of touch and they also capture Earth Kingdom citizens and use them to work for them as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I saw that really apparent in sort of episode three, the southern air temple, when they're they're like learning about the devastation of the fire nation and ang goes in and sees for the first time, you know, the impact that they've had. And also in episode one or two when he's in the water south pole with katara and he's seeing, you know, the the fire nation ship that's sort of booby trapped and obviously zuko's on his way down to try and find the Avatar. So let's actually talk a little bit about that lore of the Avatar. So can you tell us a little bit about who the Avatar is, what is surrounding that Avatar mythos and what's his job in the series? Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:Well, the Avatar is a person that can wield all four elements. They are a bridge between the physical world and the spirit world and they're meant to keep balance between the four nations. So that's the whole purpose of the Avatar and the thing that the Avatar is quite respected in the world because they are aware of the wisdom and the power that the Avatar holds and they're also aware of the significance of having an Avatar. So it's like reincarnation, so they know that they've had several lives and they can also tap into those past lives as well. Yeah, I think that the avatar is a pretty nice essential grounding point for all four nations and it keeps each nation in check for those type of things and you can see when he's not there. When he vanishes, the Fire Nation invades, starts a hundred-year war and because the Avatar wasn't around, like it's just been unchecked for a century. Essentially.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then the impact of that culturally and also throughout the nation has gone through as well, like seeing lots of people displaced and lots of people's villages just sort of taken over, with the Fire Nation moving straight through the Earth Nation obviously taking more and more. There are quite a few instances through book one where they talk to us about the lore of the spirit world and you mentioned before that the Avatar keeps the balance or is the connection or the bridge between the spirit world and the regular world. And in book one we see Avatar sort of play with that balance a little bit.
Speaker 2:In book one we do have a couple of different journeys to the spirit world, one being, obviously, when the Haybot attacks that village due to them burning down the forest and whatnot. So you see that interaction there and that spirit's taking villagers to the spirit world. And then we also see it later on when ang speaks to roku as well, and also when he goes to the spirit oasis. In the end, like in the final episodes of of season one.
Speaker 2:I like that, and the spirit world is like, as, as you should be told that he and can't use airending or any bending in the spirit world. So, and when he's, when he is in the spirit world, like his body can't be, can't be moved, otherwise he will, you know, come back to the physical plane, um, and it's implied that it is actually quite hard, or it can be quite hard, to get to the spirit world, um, depending on, like, what kind of avatar you are. Um, as we do see that, um, some avatars have struggled with being able to tap into that spiritual sort of side, whereas Aang, being an airbender, mark, he's already mastered that sort of side to being the avatar, so he's quite good at going in and out of the spirit world.
Speaker 1:And through the episodes as well, you do see that he is quite naturally gifted in terms of his own bending skill. He picks up waterbending quite quickly in the middle sort of episodes of the book as well. And then also you know that spirit journey through episodes seven and eight in the winter solstice episodes is really apparent as well, and that's where the season sort of kicks off in my eyes in terms of the really sort of overarching narrative of the Avatar's role in this world. So obviously he's there to keep the peace and he knows that the Fire Nation is. On the march there was some talk about a comet that was occurring through book one and there was that astrological event that sort of did something with the Fire Nation. Yeah, yeah, so it's called Sotan's.
Speaker 2:Comet and essentially what happens is it's the comet that was used to first start the war, so it was used to wipe out the Air Nomads. And essentially when Aang visits Roku at the Solstice Ace Temple, he pretty much explains that the comet is going to come back again. Like, usually it takes years for the Avatar to master all four endings, but he's going to have to do it by Summer's End if he wants to stop Fire Nation before Sozin's Comet arrives. It pretty much enhances Firebender's abilities. It pretty much gives him like a times 100 buff, you could say, on all their bending. So they're pretty much the very like just your common foot soldier has the bending of like a firebending master. So like, imagine a firebending master with that type of power as well. It's like they're very hard to go up against.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that would give lots of people throughout the realms a big sense of anxiety, because they're already hard to beat as it is with their advanced technology. Given the fact that they're empowered by the comet, it's a ticking time bomb, you might say. Sort of emboldens that connection to nature that a lot of the different tribes have as well, because at the end of this series, in book one, there was obviously the connection to the moon and the water tribe. So there is that sort of theme going on as well, that there is that sort of spirituality and the balance between the natural world and how we live in it as well as people and as vendors. Yes, we'll move on now talking about the themes and we might actually jump into having a chat about some of the nuances of this cartoon, because one of the most important and amazing features of this is its layered sort of plot structure and storytelling, because we are getting the tale of Avatar and his two friends going off and trying to learn the four elements and stop this hundred year war. Two friends going off and trying to learn the four elements and stop this hundred year war. But underneath all that we're also getting various different lessons about responsibility and duty, about accepting loss, about the balance of power and different sorts of ways that we can feel compassion. There's talks about gender equality as well and various different stereotype breakings and friendships and trust and all that kind of things.
Speaker 1:One example that I sort of took as being one of my sort of favorite episodes was an episode that talked about the importance of trust, and it was the episode 10, titled Jet, and it was when Aang and Katara and Sokka met that group of individuals that were sort of resistant to the Fire Nation, and then they'd go in and they'd sort of take various different things from the Fire Nation people just to survive themselves. And Katara was very enamored by the character of Jet and it was only realized later on that Sokka's resistance to them was because, you know, the character of Jet actually showed quite a bit of prejudice on every level towards the Fire Nation. We said before that not many people associated with the Fire Nation aren't with their agenda, but in this case they did meet one and there was a lot of prejudice sort of put against that person. And that's a really sort of adult concept to put in a really uh, you know, 9 to 14 year old sort of level cartoon. So it does that a few times throughout the um the series on that.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to add that, yeah, like you said, they met those freedom fighters and like, yeah, they're really infatuated with them and the work they do. They believe that they're doing like doing what's just for the cause and then, like you said, there is a lot of prejudice towards anyone with anything to do with the Fire Nation. Like just like the old man that they found like his Fire Nation, and Jet is very like. Like just like the old man that they found like his fire nation, and jet is very like they. They just they're very like he said, like heavily prejudiced against them and I think that's to their own detriment too, because you can't make any distinguish any. Just you can't distinguish the difference between like just hurting people for the sake of hurting people and like actual firebenders and the fire like fire nation, if that makes sense, that he just associates all under one big umbrella and it's good to see that. You know that. It's like when he goes to flood that town and he's successful, and then you find out that soccer actually went to the town and said, hey look, this is going to happen. Like it's not just about trying to destroy the fire nation or trying like trying to hurt them. It's about just not trying to like hurt innocent people who aren't shouldn't be involved in it.
Speaker 2:There are plenty of examples in the season, but I think I sort of get my most value from the character of iroh in that sense. So he, he teaches, he's got a lot of great, like you know. One line is a lot of great, like little passages of speech that are really like insightful and actually you can use in everyday life, like as a person in the real world. It's like, uh, you know, if I actually think of that and and try and live by that, I'll try and use that, then it actually is good advice just for, like, kids and adults of any like, of any age, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree. I think Iroh is definitely one of the wisest qualities for him, iroh being obviously the uncle of Zuko. He's extremely loyal to his nephew and through the series I also got this vibe that he was respected general and then obviously gave that up for the love of his family. That's like a really you know kind of quality for him to have and obviously forsaking that duty once again for familial loyalty for a kid like Zuko and you know, when we first meet Zuko he's not really. He doesn't appear to be worth what Iroh is feeding into him until later on in the series. So he's definitely one of those characters that you can really sort of get behind and he's nuanced and interesting to watch develop because, yeah, he seems to be very kind but he's also referred to and respected by people in the fire nation yes, well, he's um, he's known as the dragon of the west.
Speaker 2:Essentially he was a general in the fire nation. We get a few, a little bit more information surrounding ira further in the series. So I try I've tried to not spoil um, anything, um for you or anyone who hasn't seen it just yet. But yeah, we do get sort of like everyone in the Fire Nation seems like for the war. And then you get this character, iroh, who's royalty of the Fire Nation, and he seems to just go against everything that we've seen in the Fire Nation, you know, like he's kind, he's patient, he's wise and he's there for Zuko and he doesn't really seem inherently bad at all or like he wants to cause any destruction or wants to invade anyway, he seems to just want to be there for Zuko. So, yeah, we do find out that, yeah, iroh has had a bit of a past, but I don't want to get into it just yet. It is explored a bit of a past, but I don't want to get into it just yet.
Speaker 1:It is explored a bit more further on yep, yeah, and they do mention as well that he he did try to assail basing, say, a few times, but obviously he failed, or that's the story that's going around from general zhou. My favorite moment from zuko is is in the king of amashu, episode 5, when he actually suggests to zuko you know, take some time, have some tea, don't focus on your mission so much. And it really highlights that sort of philosophy and balance of patience where Zuko's this really obsessive sort of kid in his nature and his quest to try and find the avatar and Iroh's that really sort of calming presence. We talked about episode 12, the storm, and that's kind of when Iroh really stands up for Zuko, uh, in a moment amongst his men. So I think that was a really sort of uh analyzing episode, episode 12, where we really got to see the backstory of Iroh and Zuko.
Speaker 2:The storm is is probably my my favorite episode of book one. Um, probably, I'd say. Obviously the finale's great, but this one here really shows, gives a lot more depth to a really one-dimensional character. Up to this point, you know, up until this point, it's just about finding the Avatar, capturing the Avatar. He doesn't seem to really care about anybody else, doesn't care about his uncle, doesn't care about the safety of his crew, which is mentioned in that episode. So the storm really gives us a deeper dive into Zuko, but also Aang at the same time. I really love how that episode is portrayed. It's reading the backstories of our two main characters like the protagonist and antagonist. We're getting those two backstories told at the same time and the duality of it all is actually amazing. I love how it's structured, this episode.
Speaker 2:You find out that Zuko, he wants to lead the nation. He's very young and enthusiastic, he wants to go into this war meeting and the guy's not letting him pass. But then Iroh obviously said please, you can go in and just don't say anything, because these old people can be a bit sensitive. And then obviously he's listening to the plan of the commander in the war room and he's saying that we'll send a battalion in to the Earth Kingdom to assault the front lines. And they're like, well, you're not going to do it. They're brainy recruits, you're not going to be able to, you're not going to make any difference. And then their commander goes yeah, of course, that's the point there, fresh meat, we're going to put them as bait. And then we'll attack from the rear. And then zuka obviously stands up, um, for all those soldiers and says, hey, how can you just throw their lives away like that, like they love and respect our nation, like how can we do that to them? And then you find out, obviously he has an agni kai with, with the, who he thinks is going to be the general, but then it's actually. You know his father. And then you know um, oz, voiced tremendously by Mark Hamill, says you know, suffering you will learn respect and suffering will be your teacher. And then he like obviously does the burn mark that we see.
Speaker 2:And then, in that same token, we have Aang, who you know found out to be the Avatar, which is also really cool because he picks the four Avatar relics from a thousand different toys, and it's all toys from his past lives. And that's how they found out that he's the avatar. But he gets told that he's the avatar prior to him being 16, which is the custom age that you'd find out that you are the avatar because the Air Nomads are fearing that there's going to be war upon them. And then, obviously, you know, aang starts getting treated differently by his friends. He can't play games because he's the Avatar now, so it's not a very advantage.
Speaker 2:And then you have, you know he's training and learning with his monk, mentor, gyatso, and then you have the other Enomads trying to pull him away from Gyatso and say he has to train, he has to train and can't have fun anymore, and like then he abandons his people and then he obviously falls into the ocean when the storm and then he freezes and um, so like you have those two you start getting, you start finding out that ang is just confused and like he just doesn't, doesn't really want to be the avatar at this point. And then you find out that zuko does. He does actually have a caring personality and a caring heart, because the reason why he is banished and the reason why he has the scar is because he cared about, you know, that battalion of soldiers. So, but then for his crew to find out about that. It's like a different level of sort of respect.
Speaker 2:And then you sort of see at the end of the episode, when they're in that storm, you know, the avatar comes and and he's his lieutenant goes what do you want to do, sir? Like, do you want to follow the avatar? And he goes, no, let's get the ship to safety, prioritizing the safety of the crew. And that's another good lesson that teaches as well. That teaches, like you know, just because you, you see something in front of you that you, that you really want or you can get. Sometimes it's better to help others around you before you just go after what you want.
Speaker 1:Oh, I agree, I think that that was really well said, and the um episode 12 is definitely like a turning point as well, for both characters and for viewers too, because, as you said, you know, you see Zuko as being a completely one-dimensional character who's really sort of aggressive in his pursuit of the avatar, and then we see Aang as this sort of childish, bogus little boy with the weight of responsibility on his shoulders, and then we find out that both of these characters, who seem so different, actually have something completely in common in the fact that they really just care for their people and really just want to live their lives and be fun, but the burden of responsibility is pushed upon them Zuko wanting his responsibility and then being burned literally for it, and then Aang slowly warming up to the fact that this is his role in the world. I think that that episode is really sort of pivotal in both of their representations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the tar goes to and, like you know, you give people hope. Like you know people, people see the avatar in here but you'll return and it gives people hope. But it's crazy because he also gives zuko hope because, like, but for a completely different reason like he needs to capture him and like the avatar gives zuko hope, but not in the traditional sense that everyone's talking about. So I think that's also very interesting as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that element of hope, where the hope for Zuko sits in his possible redemption and the return of his honor, and you know, that's kind of saddening as well. You know, looking at that and just seeing Zuko as this character that's really chasing the love of his father, like he's really just trying to be approved by the man that he obviously reveres and he's just falling short every single time, and that's what really made the the touching moments between himself and Iroh they really just hit that much more for me. You know, seeing how Iroh said that he he considers Zuko as one of his own and Zuko saying you know, I do, I know that as well one of the most amazing parts of that episode. And also heading back towards Iroh, you know we see him as this sort of calming and solid presence, always there to relax and remind Zuko about the different sorts of peaceful things in life that he should definitely consider. But there would be an element of responsibility that he feels because he said to Zuko go into that room but don't say anything. So perhaps that plays a part in why Iroh is following Zuko around in this moment as well.
Speaker 1:I do like in the finale, though, you know talking about how characters change. If we look at how Iroh is represented through the whole series and then at the very end you know, very Fire Nation loyal in terms of him being in general and then obviously being attached to Zuko, to Zuko he then goes against the Fire Nation to protect the Moon Spirit in the last two episodes of book one, when we're talking about the North Pole attack, and he actually cuts sick, you can see him be very aggressive. That power is there and you can see actually why. And that was the first moment where I clicked and I said, okay, he's a general, because he's extremely powerful, whereas before that there was just the whispers of what he had done in the past, which made me really curious about the character too especially because you you also hear from other characters that you know.
Speaker 2:Xiao goes yes, I've heard of you how you feel the spirits and how you've even gone to the spirit world yourself, and he seems to have a really close affinity for the spirits, with the spirits. He seems to really sort of hold that to a very high sort of standard in his life. He doesn't mess with the spirits and he's very like in touch with that sort of side of the world. Did you want to talk about Zhao? Yeah, yeah, zhao. He's like, seriously, he's just like the embodiment of, like the fire nation, like why people hate the fire nation. He's reckless, he uses his fire without control. He is very ambitious. He's like overzealous. He just is too ambitious for his own good. You know, he finds out, obviously, about the moon um in the ocean, spirits twing and la, and then he's like, okay, well, I'm gonna go to the north pole and I'm gonna, you know, kill them, the moon spirit um, and obviously like, obviously that's just nuts. You know what I mean. Like it's not like the whole world needs the moon, not just the Water Tribe. But you can see the way when he becomes commander, he gets those archers to capture Aang, and when he goes down the river he burns down all his boats because he doesn't have any control. And we find out that he used to be Zhong Zhong's student, which is a firebender that Aang meets the first firebender we meet that has rebelled against the Fire Nation as well.
Speaker 2:And just on Zhong Zhong, I really like his character as well. I think he's a really good character. My first couple of viewings of the show I was like, eh, he's all right. But then lately I've come around to him. He's such an interesting character. Yeah, lately I've come around to him. He's such an interesting character and I really like that. He thinks that fire is like destruction caused harm, it's death. It spreads everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that the episode, episode 16, the Deserter, was really good for me in terms of the differences between Zhao and Zhongzhong, because that difference really highlights how future Zhao really is. So Zhongzhong's obviously gone through some lessons with the Fire Nation. He's obviously deserted and he's seen the destructive sort of element of that Fire Nation and the ferocity in which they use their bending powers. So I really liked how he mentioned how the fire bending element is the only element that is actually alive. You might say so after you bend earth or after you bend air or after you bend water, you know it ceases to operate or move. But once you push fire into existence, if you have no control over that, it will take on a life of its own and it will destroy and it will move and that's kind of a metaphor for the Fire Nation as a whole as it spreads across the landscape and tries to take on everybody and everything. So Zhongzhong is also like a really wise character and prior to watching the Avatar series I was really fond of Earthbenders, but now I'm really leaning towards Firebenders as my favorite because especially the ones like Zhongzhong that take that control and know the power that they wield and really sort of harness it and take care of it and make sure that they're doing the right thing.
Speaker 1:But then you juxtapose that or you couple that with Admiral Zhao or General Zhao, as he becomes. And, yeah, aang uses it against him so much that he basically blasts the whole river and the forest system around him apart, because he has no control, he has no foresight and, yeah, he's using the fire power for power alone, and that is.
Speaker 2:You know, he rises through the ranks because he's powerful, but you know he's also lacking discipline, which is what those characters of zhong zhong and iroh he's also a bit of a bit of a two, like you see, when he has that agni car with zuko and zuko beats him fair and square and he goes do it and he puts a flame beside his head instead of hitting him, and then he goes, walks away, and then, as he's walking away, he tries to do like a shot to his back and obviously Iroh intercepts him and says you know, my nephew has more honor than you'll ever have, type thing. But he doesn't care about honor or anything like that. All he wants is to further his own ambition and grow high through the ranks. So yeah, also when he uses the Pyros as well to blow up Zuko's quarters and his ship, he just uses really cowardly methods to get what he wants.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that underhanded sort of nature as well. Yeah, you know what? I think that Deserter episode really sort of changed my perspective of firebenders and changed my perspective of of xiao especially. And did you know he was voiced by jason isaacs the um? Who's lucius mount foley?
Speaker 2:yes, yes, very cool, very cool. There's a few few cool, um like uh, voice actors that pop up at the end of the show, which is which is really cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I no, I like that. All right, let's move away from our Fire Nation characters, because we've covered Iroh, we've covered Zhao. I feel like there's a lot more to say about Zuko, a lot I want to say about.
Speaker 2:Zuko, but his character arc really goes over all three books, so I'm just trying to keep it very centric to book one. Yeah, and there's a lot more that we'll talk about with Zuko as we go on, because Zuko is my. I would say him, iroh and Kiyoshi are my three favorite characters in the whole series. Yeah, yeah, definitely have a lot to say about Zuko. I will say in book one that he does by the end of it you're sort of like not rooting for him, but you're like happy to see where he ends up, like he's, you know. He's ended up even like even the last scene where like he's beaten Zhao and he tried to have him killed and then the ocean spirit grabs Zhao and even after all that, he puts out his hand to try and like save him, because that's who Zuko is. You know what I mean. Um, and and yeah, obviously he's gone through a lot of eternal. Yes, that's an early age, but yeah, definitely keen to speak more about him further.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. Pin in this space, watch this space for book two and book three, where we talk in depth about Zuko, but you can start to see little tidbits of his kindness and his change. I guess you could say I haven't seen book two or book three, but his arc is so famous that I have heard things about it and I'm very keen to watch it and very keen to see it. But yes, we'll talk about him later on. Moving towards probably one of my favorite characters, let's talk about Sokka.
Speaker 2:Now he's introduced to us as the comic relief but he changes as the series goes on, quite fundamentally as well. Yeah, yeah, sokka, he's like watching the first book, especially like in 2024, early on in the series. He is quite he's very sexist. He's very sort of pig-headed in the way he sort of goes about doing things. Sometimes there's a bit of hard watching. It's like, oh, like he's that character, like, yeah, he is that character, but no, it doesn't age. Well, but it what it does give him is it does give him a massive payoff when, when you see him start growing as a character. So obviously you know he.
Speaker 2:I think his first big growth would be, like you said, the kyoshi episode, where he finds out like we're in the ambush and it's like there were no men, it was us and it's just like, oh, it's no way, like a bunch of girls did that.
Speaker 2:And then you know you find out that you know I should be treating you like a warrior instead of treating you like a girl like he was, and then you can see that soccer is. He's very like, I don't know, you're sort of like the cynic of the group. I'd say, especially like with the fortune telling episode. I, I really like that episode because, um, like you know sucker obviously doesn't, doesn't believe any of it, and I'm also in that same mindset. I don't know if I actually believe in fortunes and whatnot. So I sort of related, I felt like I was the sucker of that episode. So you can sort of see that like he's very sort of based in reality and doesn't really like buy into much of the like he calls waterbending, like magic water, um, and and he's like think, always thinking about meat and his stomach and he's he's like the very yeah, he's the human character, isn't he, he sort of?
Speaker 2:grounds everybody yeah, well, he's like the, the non, the non-bender of the group, you know, yeah, um, but you know, I think he definitely does like he grows in that episode with the kyoshi warriors he grows, you know, in that episode, jet, he grows, uh, and further on as well in the series. But the growth he does from the start of the book to the end of the book is is like a lot and he only continues to grow as well throughout the series. But yeah, I think Sokka is a great character. I think his one-liners and comedic value is uh, definitely sometimes can be understated yeah, he's, uh, he's definitely.
Speaker 1:He gets to me a lot of the times, like when he gets sick after the episode, the storm, and he's there all wrapped up and katara's looking after him and then he's just like you know what's great about oppa? Sense of humor, yeah, I also sorry, go ahead. And then after that he's just like oppa growls or something and and he's just like classic upper it's just funny, yeah, yeah, no, he's funny like that.
Speaker 2:I like that. He's just like in the fortune telling episode where he's just like can your science explain why it rains? And he goes, yes, yes, it can. And he's just like when he fortune tells Aunty Woo says you know, you'll be wearing these shoes when you meet love your life. And he goes, okay, and how many days have you been wearing? It was like every day since I got the fortune. It's like well then, of course it's gonna come true, of course it's coming true, yeah, yeah. And then he's like um, we said the the town wouldn't be destroyed by the volcano and it wasn't. And he goes I hate you because it technically is right, didn't get destroyed, but like it's only because of they went out of their way to make it happen.
Speaker 1:You know absolutely yeah, I think we can't move on from Sokka before we talk about his wisdom and his tactics and his strategic brain, because the amount of times that he said through the series, I have a plan, you can't count it. But he's definitely. Even though he's presented as that comedic sort of character, it's also coupled again with something quite opposite, which is that sort of wise plan maker, and I feel like that sort of originates from his father, who's a very respected leader in the water tribe. He very much respects the warrior sort of job that he has and he respects strength in lots of different ways, whether it be sort of mental strength or whether it be like strength of arm. But he's just that very sort of tactile but also tactical character and the plans that he comes up with are really quite, you know, town-saving on occasion, as well, he's usually the one doing the schedule, he's doing all that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:It's the sort of stuff that you don't really see and you sort of just see the spectacle of, you know, katara and Aang and the benders and how they do everything. But he is a quite capable leader and warrior in his own right and you do see that throughout the series. He isn't afraid to take on any sort of fire, nation soldiers, regardless if they're benders or not. You know what I mean. So, um, yeah, there is a lot to say. Socker's also one of those characters as well that grows throughout the series. So it's really hard to speak about him in like a, the void of like, just in the closed space of book one. Um, but yeah, like, like you said, he is, is that that, that non-bender that we sort of relate to? Because, if we, because we don't bend either, so that's, he's a character that we most relate to in that sense yeah, yeah, exactly, I agree.
Speaker 1:I think my favorite soccer moment is his portrayal through the last two episodes, in the final battles of the the the of the North, part one and part two, where he obviously falls for Princess Yue, is it Yue, yeah, yue, yeah, falls for Princess Yue and obviously she's got her devotion to Judy, which he respects but also questions. And then he finds out that Han, who is part of the Northern Waterbending Warriors, is actually engaged to marry her and you know he does fight with her initially, but he's also very understanding of the fact that he has a duty and, for the betterment of the people, he will impart his knowledge of the Fire Nation onto these individuals so he can help, despite the fact that he knows that Han's going to get all the credit for it. And obviously he loves Yue very much. But he sort of self-sacrifices in that moment too, which shows at the end his sort of emotionality, but also his leadership as well, which I imagine would only grow through book two and three.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly right. I think Sokka you know, I have seen a lot of reviews and I've heard a lot of people speak about Avatar and Sokka is, I'd say, one of those characters that doesn't get mentioned as much but definitely to what he brings to the series is exponential. I think the show would definitely be worse off if he wasn't in it at all.
Speaker 1:I agree, and then we'll go to Katara. So she's presented to us as this eager, sometimes tempestuous but kind-hearted girl at the start of the series, a South Pole-dwelling waterbender. She and her brother Sokka obviously find the Avatar, and by the end of the series she sort of plays this crucial role in the North.
Speaker 2:She's one of those characters that she's always on the morally good side of everything. There's a couple moments where, know, moments where she's like when she steals the waterbending scroll from the pirates, yeah, and like she does have a couple moments where she's a bit self-centered in a sense, but for like 99% of the series she's very that's a morally good character. Sometimes too like, too morally good. Sometimes it's to our own detriment. Sometimes it's like it can be a little bit annoying, as we find out later on in the series as well. But I think you know being that's that's she.
Speaker 2:She's sort of like helps ang sort of reaccustomed to the world as it is today. She's sort of like his god in a sense, and ang obviously has a lot of strength for tara because he has a massive like crush on her. So, yeah, he gains something. Anything that she says is like you know right, because he obviously has a lot of fondness for her. So he's always going to be inclined to sort of go along with her whatever she wants to do. So, yeah, I think Katara really adds a lot to the series.
Speaker 2:I think that she's a great, as in the end episode we find out that she's now a waterbending master and that she's going to be an angler waterbending teacher from now on. So you can see that she, from the start of book one to the end of book one, she grows a lot as a bender, as a character as well, and you can also see that Katara is very resourceful and she's very. She doesn't believe in the Determined yeah, yeah, resourceful, determined and she doesn't believe in a lot of the customs of the North as well. Obviously, when they go up there, they find out that women can't be actual waterbending warriors, they have to be healers, which she finds ridiculous because throughout the whole series, she's been battling to get up to the North Pole to learn waterbending from a master. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like Katara and Sokka both play very important roles in educating Aang on how he's going to be the Avatar, because Aang is presented to us as that sort of very youthful spirit and Sokka has that comedic value in him. But he also has that wisdom and that tactical sort of side that Aang needs to adopt in times when he needs to lead people and be the Avatar. But Katara has that determined but also maternal sort of nature of caring and kindness which also couples really well as the both of them combine to to be the Avatar's biggest teachers and influences. And I think that's probably the best thing that those two characters do in terms of their role in the show. They they really sort of complement Aang's journey and yeah, you know it's written that way, but I don't think two better people would have found Aang to, you know, train him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, 100%. So now let's talk about the man himself, the man of the hour, Aang the Avatar, the airbender, the last one of his kind. We meet him as a carefree, playful boy, pretty irresponsible, a little bit unaware of the war's magnitude, until you know, the series sort of goes on and through this series he kind of struggles with the weight of the responsibility that's put on him as the Avatar Actually even before the series, as we see in flashbacks, when he's granted the status of Avatar at that very early age, he struggles with that responsibility and struggles with accepting that responsibility as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true, we first meet him. He's just a goofy kid really. All he wants to do is you go penguin sledding, um, and even when they need to go to the north poly, you know he wants to stop at all these places and you know, ride the, the elephant, koi and all that type of stuff like he, he, he's just a very kind-hearted, free sort of spirit, um, and you know the role of the avatar doesn't seem to really suit him, but we, obviously we do find out that, uh, you know the role of the Avatar doesn't seem to really suit him, but obviously we do find out that. You know, he does sort of grow into it a little bit better as the series goes on. But, yeah, especially in book one, he's very sort of doesn't want to be the Avatar and he doesn't, like you said, he doesn't really understand the weight of the war until really he gets back to the Southern Air Temple and sees Gyatso's skeleton there and then he just like loses it and goes into the Avatar state and just is like without Katara there to calm him down.
Speaker 2:You know who knows what happens, irreconcilable, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I think. And then he carries around that guilt as well from like abandoning the world, I guess for a hundred years. He like especially up until the storm episode. You can see he carries that around a fair bit. Um, and then he's also got to deal with people like saying where have you been for the last 100 years? Yeah, he's got a lot to sort of on his plate. And then he also, when he finds Roku and then finally figures out that, like you know, the comments coming back and he's got to learn and master all these elements before summer's end. And you just like you know, if it wasn't hard before, it's certainly harder now. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, yeah, and I think his learning as, as you mentioned, his learning comes from lots of different spaces and it happens in lots of different ways. You know, the the main arc of the story is him learning the four elements, but he's also learning how to be kind and he's learning how to treat people and he's learning how to view Fire Nation deserters in a way that isn't sort of stereotypical. And then he's also sort of learning how to let go of grief and loss. And he's doing this all at the humble age of 12. And it sort of highlighted heaps his, his childishness still is highlighted in that episode.
Speaker 1:Um bato of the water tribe, episode 15 in book one, where katara and soka meet one of their father's friends, and you know, that element of trust is sort of there with ang and it's also slightly broken because he he knows how important katara and so are to him and he sort of hides the map which would lead them back to their father, also then fearing the fact that they're going to leave him, which is, you know, it's a very human emotion to feel, which then highlights the fact. You know, this guy is the Avatar, but he's also very much still a boy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's like you see that very much throughout the series that he's just a kid, um, and he does struggle sometimes with it being able to like accept and the responsibility that he's been given and having to navigate through the world and like really being forced to be more mature than what he wants to be, so doesn't? He would rather just not worry about any of that stuff and just have fun, but that's obviously not the reality of the situation he's in. I feel like he's reluctant to be the Avatar, especially in this first book you see it the most before he really steps into his own and accepts that responsibility. So, yeah, he grows a lot more I don't know if I've said it so many times with all the characters, but he definitely, as the series goes on, he definitely grows a lot more into into his avatar role.
Speaker 1:But I definitely think in book one he does take a fair few big strides of becoming who he needs to be yeah, especially in those last few episodes the siege in the north, part one and part two where he he does take that journey into the spirit realm. He meets ko and know he's very sort of stoic in that situation, very ambitious in the drive that he needs to do and then eventually, you know, there's also those times where he just sort of taps into like ancestral power and you'll see him just like slip into that pond and then come out as the eternal water spirit and you know his natural ability to slip in and out of the spirit world definitely comes in handy at times too and his connection and affinity to nature and various different spirits is highlighted through there as well. So he's like a character to me who hasn't seen book two and three, as someone who's like budding with all this potential and if he could use that on call or if he could, you know, utilize that in a manner that's strategic, he's like going to be a really powerful and unstoppable sort of avatar rightly feared by the fire nation. And at this point in the episodes I felt like the avatars reputation was more feared than Aang would be himself If they kind of knew who he was as a person and a boy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I kind of really like Zuko and Aang's dynamic as the series progresses in book one as well, you know, because they fight on multiple occasions. That first fight you see in Zuko's quarters. Zuko's very aggressive towards him and Aang is just dodging everything. And then as the series goes on you can see as his fights with him develop Aang becomes a little bit more sort of frontal and assaultive towards towards Zuko and they have that back and forth. But then he realizes actually one of my sort of favorite episodes as well was the Blue Spirit episode where Zuko is actually the Blue Spirit and he rescues Aang from being captured by Zhao, motivations aside, but there is that sort of relationship developing there which I'm keen to see developed through book two and three as well yeah, I think that's like really interesting.
Speaker 2:I also think I'll just on that, when you said about the avatar being feared, I definitely feel like, because the avatar is like, because ang is an air nomad avatar, right. So first of all he he's still, he's an airman, but I can feel like he's an air. He's an airman first and then he's like the avatar second. So he's not really a fighter, he's more says he'll only fight as like self-defense if he really has to, but he tries to solve his problems by being quick and clever and thinking on his feet. He's even a vegetarian. He doesn't believe in like eating meat. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So, like, I think, I think, yeah, other avatars definitely probably get the name. They probably get our fear in a sense, because a lot of other avatars wouldn't have that same sort of worldly view that Aang has. Maybe a pacifist, he doesn't really like fighting and he, like he, you know he won't actually look for a fight, he'll only defend himself if he absolutely has to. So with other avatars in the past, you know they weren't shy about just absolutely destroying whatever they needed to to to get to bring back, you know, world peace or keep everything in balance. Um, and like you said, with bazooka and ang they do sort of really work well together, like, yeah, to add to the dualities of the characters, like crazy, how they're sort of like walking the same sort of line, sort of going in opposite directions, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're also vastly different characters represented to us. But then we're brought back to the fact that they're very similar on occasion as well. You know, as we've talked about before, with the weight of responsibility and the fact that they are just those caring sort of leaders. But we've covered all our characters. Now let's go into our last segment of our episode, which is the showstopper. So that is where we talk about our favorite scene, slash episode of the series and we present them to one another. So did you want to go first for this one?
Speaker 2:yeah, sure, so probably my probably favorite episode of book one. Um, there's a lot of great moments in there, but it would either have to be the storm episode, which I've we've already touched on, but if I had to pick another one it'd probably be. I can't go off that uh finale. You know that finale um always gives me chills when he goes to the spirit world with ko and then he finds out that the koi fish uh the moon, moon and ocean spirit. Um, and then when he goes into that pond after the moon spirit's been taken out and he goes like no, it's not over, and then obviously he sinks in and merges with the ocean spirit, like that's like just.
Speaker 1:There's a neon in that moment after, and the palette in that episode as well, where it's red across the screen for a moment because the moon's gone and then it's black and white and then the fire bending puffs bring back the light.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really good. That is amazing. Yeah, like, especially when it's like the Zhao and Zuko fight at the end. Then it's just like the only thing that's being the only time you see colors is when the fire is eliminating their sort of outfits and stuff, and then the only other thing that's shining is Aang, that's merged with the ocean spirit. So like, yeah, just the actual cinematography in that episode. It's just like so good, just really really good way to end out that book one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think my favorite episode we have talked about it before as well is the Deserter, where Zhao is defeated because of his impatience and Aang learns a lesson about.
Speaker 1:You know, not always learning the quick way is best and having to take time to be patient to learn the different sort of skills that he needs to. But if I had to pick another one, I think another favorite episode of mine would be the the blue spirit episode, and I think that is because the motivations for Zuko were a little bit sort of fuzzy. He doesn't want Zhao to capture the Avatar, but I also feel like that's a developing sort of concept as to what's going to come for him. So I feel like that's the first episode where Aang and Zuko kind of come into an alliance, you might say, as opposed to Zuko always then tracking down Aang. So I like that episode because of the potential that it has. But my favorite episode of book one water book is is the deserter, episode 16, because, yeah, it really changed my perspective of fire benders to the point where they're now my favorite kind of vendor yeah, no, that's, that's really cool and I think I think that's uh like that.
Speaker 2:Like you said, there's a lot of great episodes in the series. Um, especially, uh, book one is probably my least favorite book out of all, out of all three, but I just think that the, the way, the way this sort of develops in the themes and the new characters we meet in the in the following books, just uh, just like, yeah, it's, yeah, it's crazy good. So I just can't cannot wait to get into that with you I know and it's.
Speaker 1:It's so good to see, like all of these sort of elements, these themes, these world buildings, these character arcs like we can talk about this for an hour now and it's all the children's cartoon. You know, age for people between like 9 and 14, but it has so much versatility to be watched by people of all different ages and that's why it's probably one of the best cartoons and I know on rotten rotten tomatoes it's got a 100 rating score. It's like 9.3, I think, in imdb, but yeah, it's, it's definitely high rated up there and I can't wait to get into two, three with you as well. It's something you keep on watching. So watch this space, fandom portals people, because, uh, we will be diving into book two and book three later on in our episodes. Yeah, definitely, and thank you so much for joining me, luke. You've been an amazing guest and it's great to talk this sort of stuff with you, so I'll appreciate having you on the show again.
Speaker 1:That's it for this week's episode of the Fandom Portals podcast. I want to thank you guys for tuning in, as always, and I want to give a special thanks to Luke Newton, who is a very dear friend of mine, who was absolutely awesome to have on the show. As we said in the podcast, guys, we will be doing book two and book three a little bit later on in our Fandom Portals journey, so stay tuned to our podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or Overcast to make sure you catch them and the return of Luke Newton as well. This has been the third installment in our first annual animation celebration here at Fandom Portals Podcast, and next week marks the very last episode of this mini-series, so please come on in and join us for that in a week's time. I've been Aaron Davies. Connect with respect, as always, guys, and we'll see you later. Thank you.
