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The Fandom Portals Podcast
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The Fandom Portals Podcast
Venom 3, The Last Dance: Developing Interdependent Relationships with Eddie Brock and Venom. Is this Tom Hardy's Last Run as Venom?
Aaron and Brash discuss the emotional complexities and character growth seen in “Venom: The Last Dance,” exploring themes of sacrifice, symbiosis, and growth in relationships. From first encounters to in-depth analyses, we uncover what makes this trilogy's conclusion resonate with audiences.
As we dissect the storytelling elements of the Venom trilogy, we engage in a lively debate about character dynamics, most notably the complex relationship between Venom and Eddie Brock. While we acknowledge the films' flaws, we can't help but appreciate Tom Hardy’s outstanding performance and the eye-catching CGI. From the transition of Area 51 to the fictional Area 55 to potential new character arcs, our discussion touches on everything from plot critiques to future possibilities involving Flash Thompson and Dylan Brock.
• Exploration of Venom's character journey and portrayal
• Critique of editing and pacing within the film
• In-depth analysis of acting performances and character dynamics
• Most valuable takeaways tied to growth and humanity
• Ranking the film for the Fandom Portals Honor Board
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hello, I am aaron from the phantom portals podcast and I'm sitting here with brash. How you going today, brash? So pretty good yourself, yeah, not too bad. Not too bad, uh. Today we are here to talk about a fantastic trilogy of movies produced by a really wonderful studio known as Sony. We're here to talk about Venom, the Last Dance. But before we get into that, as per usual, we're going to give our growths and gratitude. So I'll go first grateful because the delivery man delivered a nice new double bed for my son to sleep in, because he's uh, transitioning to a big person bed, and we built that together. So I'm grateful. Um, um. What about yourself, brash? Any gratitude for the week? Um?
Speaker 2:I am grateful for the new year and starting it off in a relaxed, relaxing way by having a day off today, even though I was meant to go to work.
Speaker 1:Definitely understanding of that. All right. So for growth, I do have a growth. I am, uh, I I don't really like to make resolutions because I know that I'm going to break them. I just like to try and understand that I'm going to form new habits, and the forming of new habits that I wanted to try and do was to actually initiate a bedtime. I'm really fucking horrible at bedtimes. So, um, yeah, sometimes I'll stay up until like one or two other times I'll go to bed at 10. Other times I'll go to bed at 8 30 depending on how absolutely crashed and tied around. But, um, yeah, first day of the new year I was like I'm doing it, this is it. Awesome job. Went to bed at nine o'clock, felt amazing. The day after that I went to bed at like 1 30, so I immediately broke it.
Speaker 1:So my growth is still to try and get to bed between nine and ten o'clock. So if you are um following us on social medias and you see me posting after nine or ten pm australian eastern standard time, then pull me up on it you know, tell me to go to bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tell me to go to bed.
Speaker 1:I me about Fenn and Porter's community. Do my thing for me. What about yourself? Any growths, brash? This year I want to be more responsible with my money that is such a good one. Yeah, and when you're talking responsible with your money, you're not like a closet gambler no, no, I don't gamble at all, really no, it's more so.
Speaker 2:I tend to. If I have any sort of money in my account, I will spend it. So say, if I go out to dinner with friends, I will pay for everyone's meals. That is don't change that. I mean like it's good, but in the long run I get towards like the end of the month and or towards my next payday and I end up with no money. Oh yeah, but yeah no. I need to try and save some money because I want to go to japan this year as well, oh yeah, japan's a great place to go.
Speaker 1:I went when I was in my early 20s. It is a great place to go if you're just looking to go overseas for the first time, because it was my first time there and I'd even take my family there now because it was just, it was everything was clean, it was good for tourists, it was great, it was before all the pandemic stuff and everything like that, but sure it's still the same. What do you want to see in Japan the most?
Speaker 2:So there are a few sites from some anime that actually like. So some anime shows they've drawn in actual places in Japan, yep. So I want to go around, I'm starting to compile a list.
Speaker 1:We're going to start off with our first segment, as we talked about today. We are going to be talking about venom, the last dance.
Speaker 2:Well, that's going to like this no, I can absolutely guarantee you, I'm my own has found us. Who sent that thing? My creator, of course. The symbiotes didn't come here by accident. They were running from what. What's his name then? No?
Speaker 1:okay. So the first take segment is where my co-host brash and I discuss how we first discovered the movie of venom the last dance. It can be about venom the last dance. It can be about any of the venom movies how you first heard about him. It can be about the venom character, how you first were introduced to that character. Um, we are also joined here today by our third unofficial co-host, ace. He's sitting here on Brash's lap, so he's also excited to join in on the fun. The old papadoodle, do you want to go first, or me I'll go first. When did you first meet Venom slash Eddie Brock On an aeroplane? Oh really. So when I was about six. Was he hanging off the side like he was? Was I wish?
Speaker 2:no, when I was six back in the day, I used to have to travel up between Victoria and Queensland a lot to visit family and there used to be this thing that ums get unattended minors on planes and they used to get these little care packages sort of thing, and inside were always comics yep, and there were always Spider-Man comics.
Speaker 1:That's so good so yeah, so what airline was that? Qantas?
Speaker 2:yeah of course Qantas yeah, so they used to give out these little care packages and they used to always have Spider-Man comics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that was always fun yeah, because venom was really big in the comic books in the early, uh well, the late 80s, early 90s and going through that run there it's really when his character started to change, um, from being a hero to an anti-hero. But that's, that's so awesome that you first experienced him from the comics, because my story is very different. I, you, you, remember the, the spider-man cartoon, yep, yeah, not the, the one with the really corny but very memorable opening theme song, ah, but the one that sort of came out in the 90s. I first saw Venom then, and it's also the first time I encountered Carnage, and I remember being pretty afraid of both of them, not in like a I don't want to see them ever again, but more like I'm intrigued by this character, kind of way because you know the, of way, because you know, the goblin seemed very, uh, outlandish. The, the scorpion and all of the other sort of villains that are hallmarks for spider-man all seem to be pretty novel, but this one actually seemed to have some forgive the pun, but teeth to. It actually had like a bit of a deadly agenda.
Speaker 1:And then from there, my obsession with spider-man kind of grew. Uh, I then started to read some of the ultimate comic books where he featured a little bit. And then there was a video game that came out on the original Xbox. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and you actually got to play as Spider-Man and as Venom in both of those, and that was the first time I really sunk my teeth into who Venom was as a character.
Speaker 1:You know how? He's a symbiote. He actually has to feed, because that was a mechanic in the game. He had to eat people as part of the symbiote to keep your stamina up. And so, yeah, mine was a mixture of visual media in terms of Xbox and also cartoon media, and from then, obviously, we were introduced to him by the that 70s Show actor, topher Grace, who played him in Spider-Man 3. Very comic, accurate in the portrayal of how Spider-Man had the symbiote, then passed it on to Eddie Brock, and how he actually got rid of the symbiote with the church bells. That's actually pretty comic book accurate from what I've read since. But, yeah, what do you think of that performance in Spider-Man 3 in terms of Venom? You've seen Spider-Man 3, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought not to jump into what we're going to talk about later, but I actually kind of thought the Venom was more Venom than Venom.
Speaker 1:I know what you mean. So the one in Spider-Man 3 was more comic, accurate and more true to the character than what this trilogy of Hardy's.
Speaker 2:Venom Joking around, it was a bit more like always serious, always had that deep voice I mean as much as I do like Tobey Maguire he's not Eddie Brock.
Speaker 1:I don't think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he was actually pretty.
Speaker 1:He was a bit of a dick in the comics and not very good at taking responsibility for his actions, because part of his main shtick was that he he was tracing down this lead for for a serial killer known as the Sin Eater, and when he did that he got this confession. But he got it from somebody who was a serial confession person, like a serial confessional, and it was actually a fake confession and Spider-Man caught the real villain and that's what initiated Eddie Brock's hatred towards Spider-Man because as a result of his story that was absolute bogus from the fake confessional, he was fired. He lost his wife, who is Anne from the fake confessional he, he was fired. He lost his wife, who is ann from the the tom hardy trilogy. Uh, they were actually married, but now ex-wife and um, and yeah, they basically just rooted his character from there where he hated spider-man and that's what surged venom's hatred for spider-man as well, because he ruined his life and he blamed spider-man for that mistake, even though you know you can take some accountability yourself, but he never did.
Speaker 2:And they also in the actual movie. In the Venom movies they touch on his time in New York. Yes, and also a time that he was disgraced and sort of marched out of New York. So I think it was a subtle hint to that storyline in the comics, even though realistically it wouldn't have been exactly the same because there was no Venom involved and probably no. Well, there might've been, there would've been no Spider-Man involved because he didn't know who Spider-Man was until he went to Marvel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think with with that connection, that's very close to the, the 1988 Lethal Protector comic book series that featured Venom pretty heavily. It was the first time he changed from being a hero to an anti-hero. And it starts off with his change of location a sea change, if you will to San Francisco, which is very similar to the Venom movie, the first Venom movie released in 2018. And it does mention the fact that he was disgraced. He was a reporter for a New uh company and then obviously found his way into being a blogger or a video uh editor, as he did in the tom hardy universe. But, yeah, I liked the fact that they did draw from different sorts of comic book influences in the venom trilogy. But, yeah, I think, I think in terms of first takes, we both sort of come across this character in very different mediums. Have you seen all three of the movies, brash?
Speaker 2:The Venom ones.
Speaker 1:Yes, Venom 2, let there Be Carnage. And Venom 3, the Last Dance Yep, very good, yes, so this is a warning to anybody. I think we already have spoiled a little bit, maybe, of Venom the Last Dance, but this is is spoiler warning for you guys. Anything from here on further for venom the last dance or any of the movies of the venom franchise, uh trilogy is on the cards to be discussed. If you haven't seen them, then make sure you go over and watch those and then come back and listen to the podcast afterwards, if you are a person who dislikes spoilers.
Speaker 1:But we're going to move into our next Fandom Face Off, a Fandom Fact Face Off. Okay. So the Fandom Fact Face Off is a weekly segment where Brasher and I give each other a set of trivia questions, we keep score and the person who is winning by the end of the month treats the other to a theater date, all expenses paid. It's going to go very well with Brasash's goal of saving money this year. Hopefully I can win and keep you in the spending spree. Would you like to go first, brash, or would you like me to? I'll go first, okay go for it.
Speaker 2:We'll start with an easy one, okay? So the bartender is played by a now pretty famous actor. What's his name? Is played by a now pretty famous actor what's his name? And, for a little bit of help, he also plays Danny Rojas in the Ted Lasso suit.
Speaker 1:I have no idea. I'm not even going to guess. I don't know who that actor is. So what is it? Brash? His name is Cristo Fernandez, cristo Fernandez. I could have quickly IMDb'd it, but I thought I'd be honest with this one. Okay, my turn. So it is 1-0 your way. So far, all right. So this movie was directed by Tom Hardy's best friend. She's also credited with writing all three of the movies, but she got her directorial debut on this movie, venom, the Last Dance. What is her name? Brasher Kelly? It starts with M, yes, kelly, m. I should give you half a point for this, shouldn't?
Speaker 2:I.
Speaker 1:Marcel yes Kelly. Marcel, well done. She's responsible for writing the screenplay. She has a writing credit on all three of the Venom movies, along with Tom Hardy, who, for writing the screenplay. She has a writing credit on all three of the Venom movies, along with Tom Hardy, who has a writing credit for Venom 2 and Venom 3. And she directed this movie. It's the first one that she has actually directed as a solo director. So she's moved through the spaces of being a producer and then a writer and a screenplay person, and then now a. So well done Brash 1.0.
Speaker 2:To me your second question. So we saw a number of symbiotes in this movie. Can you name all of them? No, wow, can you name the big four? Big four, so that's Venom. Besides Venom, so Sadie's, teddy's Security Guard, jim, yep. And then this one's a bit of a trick one, okay, mulligans.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Mulligans was Toxin, or it was Toxin, and then it was a symbiote that was released for the movie that was Snake, like yes, yeah, that's good. So that one actually wasn't.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it wasn't named, it was just a teal symbiote wasn't.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it wasn't named, it was just a teal symbiote. Yeah, he was. He did have toxin, but toxin left it. Yes, uh, mulligan, obviously being the, the police officer from carnage, I let there be carnage and venom the last dance. Uh, so teddy's, uh, teddy pain, who was the, the female blonde doctor in the movie. Uh, venom the last dance she had it was acted by a juno temple.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of my biggest crushes, juno.
Speaker 1:Temple yeah, she had agony, I believe.
Speaker 2:Yes, so these are not really confirmed, but hers does have the pretty much exact striking resemblance of agony. The only thing they've changed is that they gave her super speed.
Speaker 1:Super speed, yeah, and that was explained because she was struck by lightning in the beginning of the movie. The other one you wanted was security guard Jim. Is that right? Yep? That one, I believe, takes a resemblance to Phage Yep, who is just like the bulky brown.
Speaker 1:Yeah big bulky guy, bulky brown venom. You see, he did like he was meant to be, like what was the last one? Sadie's Christmas, yeah, oh, I want to say Lasher or Thrasher or both. Scyther, that's Pokemon, it's just Lasher, oh, Lasher. There you go See, I was pretty close. Yes, lasher was Sadie Christmas, I believe. But the funny thing about all of those Venoms, they are actually the one, they are offspring of Venom. Yep, all those symbiotes, rather, they're offspring of Venom and they all derive from the Lethal Protector story arc that was released in 1988. And they were created by the Life Foundation, which features in Venom 1.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's been a few symbiotes out over the time because the different sort of story arcs that have happened, two of the big ones obviously being the King in Black and the Venom Wars, basically saw an explosion of symbiotes come through to the Marvel Universe, but I do like how they did have more original ones and there were ones that like they all have similarities to some that'd be made, but like there was, like the one I don't believe is the case because Anti-Venom was created by Norman Osborn.
Speaker 1:All right'd like to bring in budget questions for you. So this movie, although it was, it's been knocked a lot by a few different critics, but it had a budget of $120 million estimated US dollars. Do you think this movie made over or under $400 million Over it did? Do you know the exact amount?
Speaker 2:I did see the exact amount before. I don't remember. It was like 400, was it like 478 or 400?
Speaker 1:If we round it up, it would probably be about 477. So that was close, yeah, so it actually was a bit of a success because it came out over one of the Thanksgiving holidays, I believe. Yeah, it was in the cinemas for for that, and you know everybody likes to go and enjoy their holiday time. So they went to the cinema, saw Venom, the last dance, and that gave it a really big bump up. So it also begs the question to me you know a lot of people are going to watch these movies in the box office. $477 million at the box office is nothing to shake your head at. Across the span of this series of movies Venom 1, 2, and 3, they have actually made over a billion dollars, like the franchise itself has made over a billion dollars. And that, coupled with the fact that everybody's saying that you know these Sony Venom movies aren't too good, that's a little bit of a question mark for me, brasher.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it actually made more than I thought it would, but um, in saying that, like always to every movie, there's good stuff, okay, so so far score update.
Speaker 1:It is two nil your way, uh, with your last question coming all right.
Speaker 2:So this one is a pretty simple, I think, okay. So in the scene after the plane yep. After he's Tom cruising yep. And then before he meets the family yep. How many animals does Venom turn into and what are they? Okay?
Speaker 1:so I think there's three. There's a horse, oh wait, is there a bug? Might be a bug, but I'm missing. There's a horse, there's a fish and there's a frog. Is there any more than three?
Speaker 2:I'll give that to you. Okay, there's technically four, because he turns into two fishes. He turns into a small fish and then turns into a bigger fish.
Speaker 1:that eats the smaller fish, yep, yeah, 100%. And then if you watch past the end credits scene and you see a cockroach Potentially a cockroach there as well. Funnily enough, watching this movie, I watched it with my partner, kalia, and we watched all the way to the null end credits scene where it's obviously setting up something a little bit more for the Sony Spider-Man universe, and then we flicked it off and I didn't find out that there was another post-credits scene until later. So Carly is actually really morose with the ending of this movie, you might say, because she now sees Eddie Brock going to Lady Liberty without Venom, thinking that he's never going to come back, and she didn't see that post credit scene and she gets really connected to movies like these and so she was really sad. So it was really nice for her to hear that.
Speaker 1:You know, potentially he might be coming back, but in what universe, we don't know. Is it the Sony one? Is it the Marvel one? Let's do our next question from me, score being 2-1. Uh, can you clean? Sweep it, brash, we, we'll see. Okay, the overarching villain in this film, venom the Last Dance, is Null. We know him as well from a comic book series called the King in Black. Who voices that character?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's voiced by Andy Serkis, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yes, it's voiced by Andy Serkis. Andy Serkis, who also directed Venom 2, let there Be Carnage. He lent his voice talents absolute master of motion capture to the character of Null. So that is the end of our fandom face-off brash for this week. You are three, I am one, which brings us to a total for the month of January, with you having four points and me having three. You've sworn into the lead, so maybe that New Year's resolution is coming to fruition after all. We'll have to see how we go, all right.
Speaker 1:So, um, we're shaking things up this week, guys. We're actually going to be doing our real deal segment first, so this next segment is going to be the real deal. All right, so the real deal segment is where we get our overlord chat gb2 to generate some technical aspects of the movie, where we can start to talk about uh movie that we are discussing, which is Venom, the Last Dance. Before we get into that, I will give a bit of a brief plot overview for those of you that don't know what the movie is about. So this movie features Eddie Brock, who's played by Tom Hardy, and Venom, and they must make a devastating decision as they are pursued by a mysterious military man, an alien monster from Venom's homeworld, and basically it's a goodbye for the trilogy.
Speaker 1:It's a culminating of the three movie saga. It is potentially the last time that Tom Hardy will be playing Eddie Brock slash Venom, and it's a it's a bit of a, a bit of a tear jerk, you might say, at the end of it. So, just so everybody knows where we're sitting with this and usually we do this earlier. But, brash, what are your thoughts on the movie? We usually do this in the first takes, but what are your thoughts on the movie from an honest perspective? You can be honest.
Speaker 2:It's okay, you won't hurt my feelings, uh yeah, no, um, look, there were some really good aspects to it, but for me a lot of it was ruined. Most of it was ruined. I think the most fun I had was the best parts I had were any of the time they were at Area 55, which is the new area that they moved into from Area 51 yeah, and what happened to the other, the other Area 52, 3 and 4 oh yeah, just bypassed it all and straight to 5.
Speaker 2:So yeah, all the like I like that with like all the Juno Temple and them doing all the research and talking to Mulligan and stuff like that and finding out more about Null, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:I love.
Speaker 2:Law Shit. So that's all great. For me Just setting up that world building stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a lot of fun with this trilogy. I think it was a movie that I thoroughly enjoyed. I loved the dynamic between Eddie and Venom and I loved seeing the growth throughout, and I loved seeing the growth of Venom across Venom 1, 2, and 3. The growth of Eddie, I'm not too sure was as significant but, as people on Phantom Portals know, I love seeing a character grow throughout a story. But I do agree there were some definite things wrong with this, this movie, in terms of, you know, pacing, plot, all that kind of stuff, the way that some characters are represented, some some dead ends in story, um. So I'm not blind to the fact that, yes, this is a um, a flawed movie, but in terms of its purpose, I feel like these movies were intended to deliver a version of a character that we are can take or leave, be entertained by, and I feel like it hit its purpose. So I actually we actually post from the fandom portals, we post reviews on our of a character that we can take or leave, be entertained by, and I feel like it hit its purpose. So we actually post from the fandom portals, we post reviews on our threads and they are shouting out some threads posters here. They also have kind of mixed opinions on it as well.
Speaker 1:Some people I gave it three out of five stars and one person said that's very generous. I probably agree with that person. That was CJ Mellonon shout out, cj mellon. He said, um, he's happy that somebody liked it and um, you know I'm being mighty generous in that sort of aspect as well. I agree with him. Yep, um, uh, killer pop sorrowful said that they should have just stuck to the lethal protector series for the film. It would have been a lot better and you know, it seems like um if it wasn't he says if it wasn't for Tom Hardy, then he probably just missed these films altogether, which is definitely something I can agree with. Tom Hardy does carry especially through number two, venom, let there Be Carnage. He carries that movie through and then in the movie I also mentioned how, or in the review on our threads I also said how much I was impressed with the CGI, especially in terms of the xenophages. I really liked how they were and the design and how different they were.
Speaker 2:They're pretty much comic accurate of how they look like they don't like in the comics.
Speaker 1:They don't spray mist at the back, but I thought that was cool. I liked how they looked like a garbage disposal or a thing you put trees into. Yeah, the mulcher.
Speaker 2:Love that. Yeah, woodchipper, I thought that was freaking awesome. Yeah, and like for a being that's sole purpose is to pretty much destroy symbiotes what a good way to just shred the absolute crap out of them.
Speaker 1:Yep, shred the absolute crap out of them. I liked all that CGI, but we had someone called Gumsmith96 that said you think the CGI was stunning. Well, okay, so shout out to you guys Thank you for commenting on our threads. There's a few more on there as well, but we do like to read and get back to you guys on those ones. And if we're talking about the Instagram, I usually post like a slide bar to see how people like this movie and if you go all the way to the right-hand side, then you loved it.
Speaker 2:But if you slide it all the way to the, to the left, you don't. And it's sitting exactly in the middle. I was gonna say did you see? Oh, it doesn't, it doesn't there's a choice of specific people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does, because you'll see, mine was below yours. Yeah, yep, so it goes all the way to the to the middle on this one.
Speaker 2:So I went like a quarter of the way, maybe a bit over a quarter of the way, and then like stopped it there and then I saw like the main, like one was like sort of a bit further along. I'm like people like it more than I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I. So I think there is varying different takes on this. So, with our real deal uh segment, getting back to that, uh, this is where we let chat gpt generate a topic for us to talk about in terms of the film, uh, if we've already discussed it, we'll skip over it and then, at the end, if there's any that we want to talk about, we might mention them in our MVT section that is coming up a little bit later. So, first off, we are going to be talking about the villain. Okay, so the villain or antagonist. So this is where we talk about how compelling and effective a villain or antagonist is in the story. A strong antagonist tends to add tension. It challenges the protagonist meaningfully With the antagonist and the villain. For this one, there was that looming villain we saw in Null, which we've kind of already spoken about. How did you feel about Null Brash?
Speaker 2:I love Null as a character.
Speaker 1:He's fairly new to the comic book scene. He is, and he's got a big fan following.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well see, even technically the sword that.
Speaker 1:He's holding. It's literally there on the screen.
Speaker 2:Not even that there's the sword. That's from Thor. Thor, love and Thunder. Yeah, gorr the God Butcher has. Yeah, so it is a creation from no, the sword, yep. That's why I was like, ooh, symbiotic, yeah. And tying to the MCU the sword, yep. That's why I was like, ooh, symbiote ties.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and tying to the MCU as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like Null. I was a little bit disappointed that he never showed his face. Yeah, well, he didn't show up. Like, if you're going to end a Venom movie, why not end it with a?
Speaker 1:big bad. Yeah, yeah, I can see that, and I feel like they might have done that because they're shifting away from the one and done villains. Everybody was kind of getting a bit angry with that. How they'd establish a really good villain and then they'd die in one movie and they would be seen again.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I felt like the way that they sort of set Null as a villain outside gave me a lot of Thanos vibes from the original sort of Avengers face, where you'd see him far away and you'd see him in you know post or pre-credit scenes where you know he'd put on the glove and he'd say I'll do it myself. It was that kind of vibe for me with Null and it felt like Sony was kind of trying to set something up in their new Sony Spider universe set of movies. I'm not sure how far it will go um us, with the hindsight of knowing how well craven the hunt.
Speaker 2:yeah, seeing how that sony spider-man universe is going to be set up, not too sure and that's probably going to be the biggest issue is the fact that sony doesn't have that much intellectual property now yep, yep, and the ones that they sort of the main one that they have is spider-man, and the thing with spider-Man is Sony are producing good Spider-Man stories.
Speaker 1:So if we're talking about the original trilogy, like the three trilogies with Tom Holland, the original trilogies with Tobey Maguire uh, some people love Andrew Garfield's two movies I know I do, and we discussed before off off camera that you also like those. And then there's the two Spider-Man games that come out on PlayStation, all all created by Sony. So they know what to do with this character. They know what to do with Spider-Man. It just seems like anything outside of Spider-Man, oh, and into the Spider-Verse as well, yeah, anything outside of Spider-Man. They just seem to stuff up, yeah.
Speaker 2:Full, flat. Yeah, just seems anything outside of sort of Marvel Disney, outside of sort of Marvel Disney. I hate to say it, but anything outside of Marvel Disney seems all flat.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep or anything without that kind of influence. And you know it does get back to the point of people that are enjoying the MCU or did enjoy the MCU when these movies started to come out. There's an aging audience. Are they trying to do something for the newer audiences or are they trying to appease the older audience? And that's a difficult space to be in. And that's where you start to think about when reboots start to occur, um, when everybody's sort of sick of the the old and it's not really hitting with the old target audience. So you think, okay, let's reboot for a fresher audience. And that's what you can see dc doing with james gunn now, with the snyder verse not really hitting where it was and him starting his new superman journey for a brand new sort of audience now.
Speaker 1:Um, but back on to the topic of Null as a villain. I think the overarching sort of nature of him was quite good because it did seem to set something up and it gave it increased the stakes for me, because if it was just about the military looking for Eddie and Venom or if it was just about those xenophages coming and looking for Eddie or Venom, I don't think I would have been as invested, as if I was knowing that you know the real world is going to literally implode if they get, you know, if they get away with it, so to speak. So for me, null was pretty good, and for this as well our good and bad ratings, as we do here on the Real Deal segment. If it's good, we're going to call it Brock's Crocs.
Speaker 2:We want to promote Brock's Cro crocs. That's what it's all about, and that superheroes you know what I mean can wear crocs and and and they are very comfortable shoe yeah, like his shoes, like his footwears for the start of the movie, and if it's bad, we're going to call it sad sandals.
Speaker 1:Listen, I just want you to have this please.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, thank you quality support, cushioning.
Speaker 1:Plus, they come with an antimicrobial footbed.
Speaker 2:No, reject them, bastard crocs.
Speaker 1:Thank you, those sandals were absolutely atrocious. He got them from Risa Phan's character and he was immediately pissed on. Yeah, so good is Brox Crocs, bad is sad sandals. So for you, for Null, as represented in Venom, the last, last dance, what do you give it? Uh, brox Crox.
Speaker 2:Brox Crox I. I. I wish I could have seen more of him, but what I did see of him, and especially like the some of the lines he delivers- very on point for Noel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they, um, it's like villain monologue kind of lines.
Speaker 2:Like that's the, Even the lines that Mulligan says through, which is basically like he's saying memories like the void has teeth, which is a line from the King of Black comics that Null says no, for me I think it was a Brox as well, just for that overarching looming sort of villain vibe that he gave out through the movie and for the first time as well.
Speaker 1:I wish that Carnage was done better for Venom 2, because he is definitely the primary antagonist for Venom. But I feel like Null being made that looming figure also teases a little bit and it raises the stakes. And if a villain is defeated in one movie, you're kind of like, okay, he's portrayed as this god of darkness, but you kill him in one go in a 110 minute movie. So I like that. He is sort of still trapped on Klyntar. I hope that Sony or even the MCU can use him in something else, whether it be a Tom Holland Spider-Man movie, an MCU movie or an additional Sony movie. I just want to see him some more. So, brock or an additional Sony movie, I just want to see him some more.
Speaker 2:So Brock's Crocs for me. So good start for Venom, the Last Dance, and as long as they don't do the same thing they did with Gore. Gore the God Butcher yes.
Speaker 1:Because they underutilized Absolutely, especially with Christian Bale as the actor.
Speaker 2:for that, he just wasted it.
Speaker 1:There's nothing with the character Wasted it? Yeah, absolutely All, absolutely, all right, let's get our next one. Okay, so this is where we're going to be talking about editing and transition. So editing can refer to how the scenes are pieced together, how smoothly the story flows, how it moves from one moment to the next. For me I'll start with this one I feel like the editing for me during the action sequences were extremely choppy, to the point where you were like, when the symbiotes were fighting and the action sequences were there towards the end, the scenes would change very, very quickly and I feel like that was to prevent focus on. Yeah, I feel like that was to prevent people from focusing on anything for too long. Yeah, I really loved the way that the symbios were designed and the symbiote sort of moved into different sort of hosts and helped in that last fight, but I feel like the editing for me was a little bit too choppy for me, so I'm probably going to give this a sad sandals. What about yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to agree, Sad sandals, more so for me. I found, look, they're traveling to New York from Mexico. Somehow ended over at Las Vegas. Yeah, how, how, how? You were, like, did they attach themselves to the wrong plane and fly in the opposite direction of where they wanted to actually go? Because, like, let's go down here. If you want to go to New York, you go up the East Coast? Yep, and then they ended up at Las Vegas, which is on the West Coast, which is on the West Coast.
Speaker 1:Maybe some Americans know a little bit more about it than we do, but here in Australia, usually when you take a direct flight, it directly goes there, but maybe there's something there.
Speaker 2:I don't know how they ended up where they ended up, and I feel like that's how they forced them to be in the area of where Area 51 is. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It definitely did feel like some pigeonholing was occurring here. Yeah, um, it definitely did feel like some pigeonholing was occurring here. I think we can also, in this editing and transitions thing, we can talk about how the story flows as well. So, talking about how I'll bring up a scene at the start about the mcu, did you have something you want to mention before we uh?
Speaker 2:kicked off just um, and also the with this getting them to las ve. As great as the actor Reese is his family again, like Red One, the family did nothing for me.
Speaker 1:Well, I would say that the family sort of humanized Venom and Eddie and made him think about what he could have had with Anne, because there was that moment in the car where he's like, oh, you make a good dad, yeah. But that kind of was like a hollow comment to me, wasn't it? Because, you know, and how much stake would you put in that comment, coming from a symbiote that literally bites people's head off, you'd be a good dad.
Speaker 2:Okay, says a head-biting symbiote who's never been a father.
Speaker 1:Yep, the start of the movie for me was the most jarring part, I think, as soon as it got to the point where where Eddie was back in his own Sony universe, you might say, and he was trying to go from Las Vegas to New York. Then it became a road trip movie for me, then it was self-contained, then it was a movie that I can sit back and have fun with and enjoy. Before that there was just a forced MCU plug, you might say. And then the offhanded comment of you know, I'm sick of this multiverse shit. And it's almost like Sony was trying to, or the writers were trying to, say yeah, we know as well, we know that you as the audience are sick of this stuff. So are we.
Speaker 1:But then at the same time, in the same breath, they're also trying to set up a villain like Null that could expand across the multiverse and perhaps be used in the MCU. And it just seems a little bit hypocritical for me. But for the that mcu transition, I'm like why you could have just not um, but I know that in the bumpers and in the in the end credit scenes, uh, eddie was bouncing back and forth between the two different universes, the mcu and the sony universe. But coming in as a person who's not fully fleshed out in those spaces and this being like a four to five year old story now, with with no way home and those blending of the universes and then the expunging of them, it's like yeah, no, I, I just don't know what they were trying to do with that mcu and even him going in and like I'm glad he rescued the dogs, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2:Yep, but why so?
Speaker 1:so if you're looking at a like a writing perspective and you're looking at the character, it's a way that the characters are presented to the audience in a manner that says, hey, look, how well eddie and venom are working together now. So in previous fight scenes you'd seen in venom 2 where they were just arguing with each other. There was the famous fight in the apartment where he's literally at odds with one another, and I'll get into this a little bit more when I talk about my MVTs. But that first fight scene with the dogs you could hear Venom and Eddie sort of talking to one another and then working together and Venom was waiting for Eddie to relinquish control and he was like, say when? And then when he said when Venom took over, huh, I guess.
Speaker 2:I'm giving you a chance, sweetie, I really am giving you a chance.
Speaker 1:You should probably take it, see, see, okay, say when, when, so there's that sort of moment for the character where the audience can sit there and think, okay, their relationship isn't a struggle for control, who's the boss, it's actually symbiotic now. So that's what it was for me, even though, yes, you can see, and even the part before that, when he's walking down the street out of the bar and venom says I'm hungry, I need to eat before we go on this big massive trip. And eddie was just like, okay, that's fair, there's somebody that needs trouble over here, and he walked over that way. So that's another point where they were kind of working together and the writers were trying to show the audience okay, these two are friends. Now, that's what it was for me.
Speaker 2:No, he's looking at me, I mean I get like, well, that will make sense. I mean especially the fact that he was hungry. They need to feed him. But even later on they're still not in sync when they say we are Venom. Yes, that's right. In the slot machine, venom just goes nuts, yep, and he's just like what the fuck is going on? What are you doing, man? We're fucking trying to get to New York City. You're sitting here messing around. Gave all the money that we have. Look for your lady tonight.
Speaker 1:No Snazzy jacket. Let's beat him and steal it.
Speaker 2:I know Lady Luck is on our side tonight. No, I would say that Lady Luck is definitely not on your side tonight.
Speaker 1:I would even go so far to say that Lady Luck is definitely not on your side tonight. I would even go so far to say that Lady Luck hates you, buddy.
Speaker 2:I can't stop now, of course you can't stop what?
Speaker 1:is this feeling? It's like all of my problems have gone away.
Speaker 2:I do this all the time. It's inconsistent of them working together and not working together.
Speaker 1:Well, you could say in that moment, you know they're working on it and their relationship is perfect. But Kalia actually commented on that because she said why is he walking so funny? I was like Venom's trying to take him to different places, Like there's two people in his body trying to control it, and she's just like it just looks weird. Well, okay, that's a point of view, but no for you. What do you think of the editing and the story transitions and things like that? Is it sad sandals, or is it brocks brocks?
Speaker 2:Sad sandals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sad sandals. Unfortunately, this isn't a story that you watch for its editing or its story transitions Sad sandals. So one apiece. Let's get our next one, Probably our last one before we move on. All right, so the acting performances and the cast. You can start with this one. Brash, what would you like to say about the acting performances and the cast? Thinking again is it Brox Brox or is it Sad Sandals?
Speaker 2:I like the fact that all of the American characters in this role play are by English people. Yeah, that's true. But on a more serious note, Juno Temple. I loved her character. People have said that her character might be loosely based off of Thaddeus Payne. Yep, I loved Juno Temple in this. I thought she was amazing and I do hope that if they are going to go forward more than in movies, that they do one where she might be the main symbiote.
Speaker 1:Yep, well, her and Sadie Sadie Christmas, played by Clark Backo, they actually got away in the end. That gives me Thelma and Louise vibes and even though Sadie lost her, her symbiote Lasher yeah, I'll find another one. Yeah, you'll find another one, but you know the thing for me, hitting back on the story continuation thing, the in the first movie they were talking about how hard it was for a symbiote and a human to maintain a symbiotic relationship, but in this one you just see symbiotes jumping through people left, right and center, yeah, almost like they didn't care about any of the continuity that they'd done before. There's no consequences.
Speaker 2:But also too, they might have just been like you know, being struck by lightning. Having the like she would half think that she killed her brother because they were holding hands. Lighting went through her, killed the brother she has herself is like agonizing for her and she wakes up with after nightmares and realistically this is an agony and so agony is probably a perfect cbo for her. But um, I I liked all of the cast.
Speaker 2:Reese's family was again probably again for me like they were there for reasons, but the reasons for me weren't good enough.
Speaker 1:I can't wait until we find a movie that we review on this podcast, where you're like the family was required.
Speaker 2:I think I'd watch Fast and Furious and be like this family is bullshit. That's fair, no, but I've seen rumours or heard rumours, and even he's in the credits, but he's not actually in the movie. Yep, so there's that secret sort of room with all the screens, dr Dan.
Speaker 1:Dr Dan. He's in the first two movies and he plays Anne's husband slash partner. Yeah, the one who takes Anne off of Eddie Seems like a very convenient way to get close to the person who's part of the symbiote. Yes, there are some rumors that says that he is the man looking at the screens. I've seen that played by Reed Scott as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he was in the movies, but he's in the credits.
Speaker 1:But the funny thing about that going back to that transitions thing we talked about again and why it's sad, sandals that went nowhere, oh, I know, like we saw him and then it was nothing.
Speaker 2:There was, no, there was no, like uh, agent Colson reveal like in Iron man and stuff like anything like that. Like it was um, yeah and yeah. Like well, um, attached around off black widow reveal, yeah, and like that it was just like oh, yeah, there, this other soldier dude, what to do?
Speaker 1:he's pulling the strings behind the Imperium um the Imperium military foundation. What did you think of Strickland? Yeah, strickland. Let me see if I can say his name. Oh, tough one, chiwetel Ejiofor. What did you think of him? Um, he's a good actor. Yeah, baron Mordo well, in Doctor Strange yeah, yeah, baron Mordo.
Speaker 2:I wanted to see him as a Tyrannosaurus Rex. Yeah, because in the comics he's a Tyrannosaurus Rex Really, like he changes into one, like Rex is Tyrannosaurus, oh, he turns into like a symbiote, tyrannosaurus Rex.
Speaker 1:That would have been cool. That would have been cool, yeah, but then you know.
Speaker 2:But then when?
Speaker 1:everybody's sort of sitting there, going into territory of this is already almost slapstick. And people like you look at the eddie venom relationship and you're like, okay, this is getting a little bit funny now, caricature almost. I thought that that I'm going to in the mvt again, but I thought that that relationship was less caricature in this movie, the last dance than it was in. I'll, let there be carnage, but all right, so we do also have peggy lu who plays m Mrs Chen fan favorite, that dance scene. That was my halfway through the movie. I saw that and I was like what the fuck?
Speaker 2:I was the same. I was like what is happening right now I get the name of the movie is Last Dance, but we did really have to have a last dance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know I saw an interview with the director and she said that you know, kelly Marcell said Peggy, peggy Lewis is a fan favorite character and we wanted to give her a send off that she deserved for the trilogy. And why shouldn't she? And I was like I'll tell you why she shouldn't Because when Venom transformed into his full symbiote form, he literally drew the xenophage to his position.
Speaker 2:After specifically saying we don't, we saying we shouldn't do this because they'll know where we are. There was absolutely no need for it. And he's like you know what I'm going to do, I'm going to fully transform and everyone's like cool let's do it, yep.
Speaker 1:And I feel like even that part the dance and the xenophage tracking them, both of those elements completely unnecessary for the scene to achieve the purpose they wanted, because the military were already after Brock and they'd seen him on camera footage, knew where he was, knew where he was, they were coming, they could get him to Area 55. That story element had been ticked off. You did not need the xenophage coming in, you did not need to have that dance. It was completely useless and it was absolutely shit.
Speaker 2:And how fast the xenophages are when he transformed in the base a xenophage could be in there instant anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the first thing about the Xenophages that made me raise my eyebrow was when it was just standing on a building and then you see it just jump through the clouds and hit the plane and I was like, oh okay, yeah, right, he's got that Hulk jump. Yeah, we can move pretty quickly. But yeah, in terms of Peggy Wu, I just feel like that character was pretty unnecessary and you had played a very sort of cranky shopkeeping lady for the whole series and then in this one, suddenly she's just like a little bit drunk and she's just playing that stereotype of the gambling person at the casino. Yeah, wanted some money. He's in a penthouse. Yep, just very convenient. So let's talk about the man of the moment Tom Hardy as Eddie Brock and Venom. Okay, this might be a hot take. I moment Tom Hardy as Eddie Brock and Venom okay, this might be a hot take.
Speaker 2:I love Tom Hardy, yeah, like. Have you watched Legend? Oh, it is an amazing movie. I love that he and him playing those two like twins, oh, so good.
Speaker 1:They used similar techniques in this to play the duality of the character, because he had that earpiece in where he'd hear Venom lines that he previously recorded, and then he would act out as Eddie based on what he heard, and he did the same thing in Legend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and him and Taboo and stuff like that. Tom Hardy is just amazing, or?
Speaker 1:Bane? Yeah, absolutely, Anything he does with Chris Nolan Dunkirk he was great in Dunkirk. Yes, so good. But yeah, here we go, here comes the hot take.
Speaker 2:His Eddie just looked like he was constantly tweaking and looking to score. Yeah, that was just him acting like he was always like twitchy and fidgety. I'm like I mean, yeah, initially, like when he first gets to the scene he's still getting like, he's sort of like that'd be fair.
Speaker 1:but after three movies a year long and he's still just tweaking, I'm like, come on come on, I um, when he was walking, as I was saying before with with Kalia, as he was walking, I was like this guy walks and looks like the villain from Men in Black. Oh yeah, I was like man. He's just walking like that dude.
Speaker 2:And like I understand he's trying to like, he's trying to show that like there's more, it's not just him. It's someone else also in his body, but like is Venom always making you move weird, or like it just seemed like too much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I get that, and physical performances for me can be hit or miss. I think that the work that they did in terms of the stunts and the cgi were pretty good, because you know, the stuff that he has to do with venom is obviously a lot of cgi and him acting out that cgi sort of stuff. So physically I feel like he he did maybe do a little bit too much, uh, in terms of the way that he can mentally respond to a recording which I saw an interview of, and he also gets directorial advice and comments through that earpiece as well. So he's hearing Venom's recorded lines and the lines being fed to him from the first unit or second unit. Director.
Speaker 1:All the sound guys is sort of asking him to do something different and apparently he can just act and react to those different sorts of lines and deliver something uh that is required for the scene or if they need something nuanced or different, they can do it right there before they need to post or or create something in an editing way. Um, I think that takes some tremendous talent. In terms of his eddie brock performance, I kind of agree with you. Um, there wasn't much growth for eddie throughout and for him as a character. Yeah, he just did seem to be tweaking the whole time.
Speaker 2:I remember even the first movie, when he dunked himself in the fish tank and shit. I was like I get it, it's your first time. That for me was fine, because I was like yeah you just combine with the same thing for the first time. It's going to be weird Over. You just combine with the symbiote for the first time, it's going to be weird overheating.
Speaker 2:It's going to be weird, yeah, but like after a year you're still tweaking, yeah, and like Venom's meant to be one of those symbiotes who, instead of like feeding off their host, is meant to symbiotically bond and likes to protect the host, yeah. Yeah, for him to still be tweaking out after a year doesn't make me feel like Venom's looking after him that well.
Speaker 1:So if we're talking about the cast here, it's actually pretty star-studded, Like you've got Juno Temple, you've got Tom Hardy, Reece Yffans, you've got Stephen Graham playing Detective Mulligan, you've got Chiwetel Ejiofor playing Strickland. It's pretty star-studded and, to me, pretty underutilized. I'm going to give it a sad sandals. What do you reckon I'm actually going to give?
Speaker 2:it a rocks, rocks.
Speaker 1:Okay, after all that crap you just gave Tom.
Speaker 2:Hardy. Well, no See, that's Tom Hardy, and that was my look. He was amazing.
Speaker 1:It was just his Physical Mr Bean, yeah, like his John Cleese from Polly Tower slapstick yeah, his.
Speaker 2:What do you call like your when people have like two little quirks, quirks it?
Speaker 2:was like his little quirks. For me it was just a bit over the top, but other than that I reckon everyone did an amazing job. Like, yeah, I loved Juno's Gakutete yep Strickland, he was amazing too. Like, for a while I thought, oh, he's going to be like. I thought maybe at the start that he'd get a hold of a symbiote and go rogue and go bad as well, but he ended up just like he was. He was a person I loved to hate until I liked him.
Speaker 1:I um, before we move on from this segment and going to our MVTs, final comment on this one um, I just love how Sony put this movie in the same um universe as Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man movie and just expected us not to notice that. Final comment on this one I just love how Sony put this movie in the same universe as Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man movie and just expected us not to notice that Reece Yifans is playing Martin in this movie, but also played Dr Connors the lizard in that movie. So yeah, we'll just look past that it's fine.
Speaker 2:Well, I was saying that too, detective Mulligan, played by Stephen Graham. Stephen Graham he I see how we were talking about Red One when what's his name's character gets taken over by, yeah, nick Kroll, nick Kroll, he did a great one he did a great job of like being taken over and I was going in and talking like this. He did a. That's what you need to do. That's what you need to do subtle but impactful yep, exactly right.
Speaker 1:He got the message, knew the assignment and he nailed it. I agree. So for me just to be clear, I'm giving it a sad sandals because I feel like the cast that they had was underutilized. Not because they did a bad job, I feel like they did a bad job. I just feel like they underutilized them in terms of story, in terms of some characters being there and not being necessary, like Rizifan's character and his family like okay, he's here and that would have freed up so much more screen time to flesh it out to other people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. Alright, we'll move on to our next segment, which is our MVT, our most valuable takeaways alright? So this is the segment of the show where we discuss the one or two things that we absolutely took from this movie. It could be something that we learned. It could be something that we grew from. It could be something relating to the characters or their arc. It could be something educational that we learned.
Speaker 1:I'll go first Brash for this one, specifically the character of Venom, the symbiote character of Venom, his arc from the Venom one made in 2018, all the way to this movie, venom the Last Dance, and, in particular, I liked how it represented the transition and the growth from a codependent relationship to an independent relationship and then an interdependent relationship, and by that I mean in the first movie. You can see Eddie and Venom battling for control, and Venom is very impulsive and I've seen Tom Hardy actually say you know, it's almost like channeling what a wild animal would do if they had the cognizance to react to things in the human world, and I feel like he does that very well. But he also takes a lot of control away from Eddie and they're battling with each other in terms of who gets that control. There's that domineering effect, there's no boundaries that are set, which is definitely sort of there on a codependent side of a relationship and they actually do need each other for survival. In terms of the second movie, let there Be Carnage. You're in that sort of bickering phase of the codependent relationship and Eddie and Venom are both trying to express their needs and then eventually they separate, as you would in a you know, a romantic relationship, if you would, and then the growth comes from that separation. They come back in the end and then in this movie, as we discussed previously, they are presented to us as a unified pair of people. So that sort of growth.
Speaker 1:And then coming to that ending sequence where venom was a parasite. He was described as a parasite where he absolutely takes from his host and there's nothing that he considers in terms of an emotional tie to eddie. He's there for food, he's there for sustenance, he's there for survival and then at the very end, for him to then sacrifice himself and potentially die after basically slugging his way toward the acid sort of facility in Area 55 and gathering all the xenophages. And you can't look at me in the eyes, brash, and tell me that you didn't shed a tear when he placed ever so gently that door down on Tom Hardy, on Eddie Brock, and you know that sort of that is not what a parasite does.
Speaker 1:For me that is definitely a relationship that has experienced some growth. In terms of Venom, where he was, he literally says to him in the first movie he's like I'm in control, you need me, I'm going to do what I want with you, and then now he's literally laying down his life for this guy. So for me the character arc of Venom is good and was something that I was there for and that I enjoyed in this movie. That's the most valuable takeaway for me that growth can happen even if you're a blood-sucking, head-chewing alien symbiote monster that needs somebody else to survive. Everybody can do the work and be better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's powerful.
Speaker 1:Thanks, brash. Powerful, deep, deep. Well, you know I like to look into movies a little bit more than I probably should. That's what I took from it. So that last scene, how'd you feel about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I liked that whole entire last scene. The one thing that did sort of get me a little bit was the fact that all these symbiotes trying to hack and slash these xenophages, and then Bems is like hold my beer and just attaches to all of them, sucks them into himself and walks them to the acid Like damn man, why couldn't you do that at the start? Yeah, yep, I mean well, not like so much do that at the start, but why couldn't you corral them or like that at the start? Yeah, and just everyone just hack pieces off from under, like there's other ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the fact that those just kept coming back together. I liked the way that they came back together too by the way, it was almost like a flinky doll yeah, that was good. But yeah, carly and I, watching it, looked at each other and just said how are they going to kill these guys? Yeah, that's what I'm like. And then more are coming. You're like they're fucked. Yeah, that's what I gave it three stars, do you see?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like um, I suppose in a way they are, they were pretty much nearly unkillable, but the big fatal flaw was they couldn't see anything. But, yes, the um, the codex, the codex. And the only time that they did hurt anyone else is when, like, they were getting hurt by them, so like, if you just, like you, just walked past one, it probably wouldn't do anything.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, I can see that. I think, in terms of the end scene and in terms of the growth that I was just talking about, I really liked seeing how in this instance we were talking about how jarring Tom Hardy and Venom's movements were throughout the trilogy. In this ending scene, the way that he was riding that bike, he literally using venom's abilities, blades helicopter blades.
Speaker 1:That was smooth transition. That was complete symbiosis. That was the ending of the arc for those two, where they achieved exactly what they wanted to do. They're in a healthy relationship now. We're both exhibiting and relinquishing control wherever they need to, respecting each other's boundaries, helping each other achieve mutual goals.
Speaker 2:Oh, and as sad as Venom and Eddie's departure was.
Speaker 1:I like that they went there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:That's what I like. I felt I think I was sadder for Sadie and Lasher.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Sadie and Teddy Payne. No, no, no Like the symbiote Lasher.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, sadie and Lasher Actually.
Speaker 1:I actually explained no when that happened.
Speaker 2:This is sort of my thing we'll touch on, but like the fact that Sadie throughout the whole movie and even Teddy both like care for the symbiotes in a way of like not so much like all for them, but just like well, they're here now, they sort of guess. We'll try and look after them as best we can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, try and get the best out of a bad situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And pretty much Sadie, the whole time has a sort of infatuation about it, it seems. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or curiosity. At least you can see it, and she plays that really well.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and then when she, when the assimilates and her join, and instantly they just like, as lasher, just absolutely smash it, yep. And then poor lasher gets stripped off from from me and just made him into me. And then you said he's there and along with lash, and I'm like, oh, that's sad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I felt so bad for say like, so sorry for sadie, like oh, absolutely I yeah, and, as I said, that was a moment in the movie where I was like no like, and I thought that she might be one of the ones that like escaped, survived, and I kind of like how movies get you unpredictably like that.
Speaker 1:It's almost like games of thrones-esque and I'm not comparing venom the last dance to game of thrones, no way don't quote me on that. But you know how the ones you don't expect to die die. Yeah, it gives you that sort of gravity. It did that for me when the symbiote died, like when Venom the symbiote died, I was like, okay, they went there, they did this, but then again the same thing and she was only on screen for I don't know 10, 15 minutes and it already created that experience.
Speaker 2:I was like those two are perfect for each other and I'm like they would be perfect. And then I'm like I'll ask the whole thing. I'm like, oh yeah, all the rest of them are probably going to get messed up, but I'm like I reckon, um, so I reckon, uh, teddy should have with agony, yep, should have rescued sadie and lasher and lasher, yeah. But I, I'm like it did. It did give that bit of extra emotional sort of hit which, in terms of a movie, is good yeah, would you watch a, a Teddy Payne, a Sadie Christmas, agony and Lash a movie?
Speaker 1:100%, yeah, 100%, yeah. I think there's a market for it, oh, 100%. I think there is even if it is just like a Thelma and Louise being chased by whatever military, whether it's Imperium hardcore yeah like agony is amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like she also technically is meant to be able to spit acid. Yeah, I, I, I found that to be a very touching, sad moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah is that your mvt with those two?
Speaker 2:no, so my mvt is sort of aligned. Yeah, um, my mvt is, um, both sadie and teddy, how they, even though they are government employees who are there to pretty much experiment and test and research the symbiotes, um, have that humanity to be like, well, no, these are creatures as well. Yeah, and have that compassion to not want to just do terrible things to them. And, yeah, like, have, then have that compassion. I think that, like, just showing compassion to others, even though how they may be very different to you, is something that we all probably should do a bit more yeah, I like that as well.
Speaker 1:and in terms of like tropes in in films, there is always the scientist that wants to chop up the alien, like there was even a um, an et joke in this one, and that's very prevalent in et, et. They want to take the alien and dissect them and see what they can learn from them and there is definitely some scientists that are doing that. But these two are intrigued and curious and they want to see what's going on and they want to help.
Speaker 2:And it generally seems like you don't really get to see any other scientists, but it all seems like they all sort of seem like that. It was more Strickland general military will like no, we have to kill all these things. Yeah, um, uh. When he took and takes over the operation, he's like oh, this is my operation now and I'm pretty much going to just burn the whole place down.
Speaker 1:Yep. Um, we should put a compilation together of all the movies where a military person says this by operation oh yeah, jesus.
Speaker 2:I have so many times they pretty much put themselves at risk and their careers and everything at risk to protect these symbiote creatures that they're not fully aware of what their agenda is. And like, uh, how the um snake, like tendril um symbiote that um was attached to Mulligan um was saying how they were running away cause they were scared their creator was going to try and kill them. They imprisoned them and now they're trying to get away and they're like, oh shit, they're not here to take over, they're here to escape from a terrible life they had. And Strickland's like, oh no, they're here to invade. Yeah, like every alien sort of movie, they're coming here. Him and take over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the first two movies set that up, though, because you know Venom one, there was riot, which is the symbiote in there, who was literally trying to use the rocket to implement his evil alien plan, and then, in carnage I'll let there be carnage he attached to him the serial killer Cletus Kasady, and was just literally performing carnage all over the place, and that was a slasher movie. So they had those bad experiences with the symbiotes. But even still, you know, these scientists were looking at them in that different sort of light, saying what's their purpose? They're looking that little bit deeper and they did discover just from asking questions, like, instead of just assuming, they went and they asked the questions and they found out. Oh wait, these went and they asked the questions and they found out oh wait, these guys are actually escaping their planet or they're trying to ensure that a really dark and evil force is not going to kill everybody.
Speaker 2:And you may be aware, but Thor was actually the reason why they could escape from Null.
Speaker 1:Clinta, oh yeah, from their planet Clinta, no, no, so.
Speaker 2:Null created all the symbiotes, started wiping out planets. Thor killed one of the symbiotes and that broke the connection between Null and the symbiotes. The symbiotes basically became self-aware and had some sort of conscience and was like no, we can't do this. And then that's how they trapped Null on Imprisoned demon, yeah, and that's how they sort of got their own individuality.
Speaker 1:Yep, wow, they got their sentience from there, do you know? I don't know if you know or not, but do the symbiotes, do they, actively seek hosts, or are they happily existing on their own little mucky, gloopy, bluey selves?
Speaker 2:It's been up and down, yeah, but primarily they do need generally need hosts to survive because they need sustenance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, at least on our planet they explain that in Venom 1, where on this planet they need a host to survive. And then the guy that, what was his name? Drake? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he plays Riot. Yeah, he said you know, if they can survive here with a host, we can survive there with a host with them as well. So that was the kind of tie there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's more so that if a planet had an abundance of the food source, which is the chemical that we have in our brains Yep and chocolate and chocolate, If they just had that as like a plant or something on a planet, they probably could just live off as their gooey selves and just eat like the plants to give off the same sustenance they need.
Speaker 1:So I think it's like to bring our segment to a close. I think it's really interesting that even like a crappy I'll say crappy, but you know, in a movie like Venom, the Last Dance, where it's literally just like a fun sit at home, enjoy your popcorn flick, end of a trilogy Even in those sorts of movies you can still find a message that can help you throughout. So I really like that aspect of our podcast that we're kind of doing with RMBT. Final question, just before we jump into our very last and final segment Do you think this was a good ending for the trilogy? Do you think it was something that rounded out well? Do you think it serves the Venom character in a neat little package that can be used later on, or not? How do you feel like it's closed in closure terms for fans?
Speaker 2:I, honestly, would have preferred.
Speaker 1:Brock sacrifice himself. Me too, that would have been growth, honestly, because at the start as well, he literally throws his fiancee under the bus for a story lead and then at the end of this movie, somebody else sacrifices themselves so he can stay alive again. And that's what I meant when I said Brock didn't really grow. Even though he learned to live with Venom, he didn't really grow.
Speaker 2:And because one of them needs to die for the codex to be done. If Brock had sacrificed himself, they would have got rid of the Codex, venom could have survived and then well, he might still be alive. But then that brings up the thing again if Venom's still alive and Brock's still alive, then technically the Codex is still alive. Yeah, but if Venom, if Brock had died, they would have got rid of the Codex. So they would have had to find another way to escape, which could have been a whole other. But then they could have had. They took Venom and Venom could have gone to Flash like, attached himself to Flash Thompson, and become Agent Venom. I was hoping you'd bring that up and that could have been a next thing and that could lead on to Secret Wars like that TV show Secret Wars they had.
Speaker 1:Well in this regard. Flash gets the symbiote. From what I've briefly read, flash gets the symbiote. From what I've briefly read. Flash gets the symbiote after he's done a tour in Iraq and he returns and he's actually lost his legs. So when he comes and he takes on the symbiote, he becomes Agent Venom and it's almost like that coupling and that's when he does actually become like an anti-hero in that regard talking back before about the 1988. Lethal Protector.
Speaker 2:He actually gives Venom to other superheroes to help them fight their big bads and stuff like that, and that's when he gets recruited into the secret.
Speaker 1:Avengers Yep, exactly, and I think that taking this character of the symbiote into a Flash Thompson sort of arc if that was the way that it was going to go I'd like to see that sort of element being brought back.
Speaker 2:I mean technically. There was that one soldier who got his legs chopped off. Well, yeah, he got half. Maybe that's Flash Thompson, Maybe that's.
Speaker 1:Well, we can only hope, but I would very much enjoy a Flash Thompson Agent Venom, and even if Tom Hardy comes back to voice the Venom, I wouldn't mind that. I think that would be a good way to continue the character if they wanted to. Or, you know, in the comic book apparently they've got Dylan Brock, who is Eddie's biological son, as the current host. All right, so this is the final segment. This is where Brash and I are conducting a Fandom Portals Honor Board and that means that every movie that we or tv show that we look at for the fandom portals podcast, we're going to be conducting and compiling a list, uh, that ranks these movies from one to however many episodes and movies that we do.
Speaker 1:Obviously, we have done one movie together so far, being red one, so that is the only movie and that is the first place and has been for an entire week on our honor board so far Scary, I know, and this week as well, and forever. You can find this list on our Fandom Portals letterbox. It will be linked in the show notes below. So, basically, every week, the movie that we do, we will decide whether it is better or worse than the movie that we did previously and we'll see how high or how low we can sort of rank it. So at the moment this job is pretty easy. So for you, brash, do you think Venom the Last Dance should be ranked first and be our new champion on the leaderboard of the honor board for Phantom Portals, or do you think it should sit below Red One starring Dwayne the Rock Johnson? What's your thoughts?
Speaker 2:Okay, I don't was thinking about it and I'm having trouble determining which one is better than the other, because both of them had very average parts in it, but then also had some good parts in it. Yes, absolutely, I'm going to have to say better, yeah, more so, because, like I love Lucy Liu, jk Simmons, absolutely amazing. The Rock, even though he plays the same character in every movie, still good, um, uh, buddy Chris Evans, love Chris Evans. Uh, scott Pilgrim versus the world, one of my favorite, like he played like and the same with not another teen movie, he, uh, anyway, um, I've always liked Chris Evans as an actor, with Venom, the nostalgia, the um, the nerdiness to it and the amazing actor that is Tom Hardy. I just feel it's just a bit more my kind of movie.
Speaker 1:I rated both of these three stars, but for me I just feel like this rounded out the trilogy kind of well. It was a big pickup from uh, venom to let there be cringe. I feel like that arc and growth from venom really carried me through. They have made over a billion dollars at the box office, we'll say as well. This movie made way more than red one did, at least four, four times more. But not just for that reason but for the facts, similar to what you were saying, for that nostalgia, for that connection with the character of Venom, I'm rating it above Red One as well. So we have a new champion for the honor board, at least for a week, yeah, until we look at our next movie in our next episode of the Fandom Portals podcast. But Venom the Last Dance sits at the top of the honor board streak of a week from Red 1. We'll see how it goes. We'll see, hopefully see how it goes. Prash, do you want to tell everybody where they can find us?
Speaker 2:it's at Venom Portals, on everything. So it'll be Instagram, twitter, not Twitter. We don't Instagram and Threads.
Speaker 1:Instagram and Threads oh yeah, and Letterboxd, letterboxd very good, alright. So, with that being said, guys, make sure you share this podcast with somebody who is your symbiotic brother and you know share some good movie chats. We definitely love it when people chat to us on those medias, whether it be Instagram threads or even Letterboxd. If you have a Letterboxd account, definitely come and follow us, and we have some challenges on our Letterboxd right now as well. We've got a January challenge. Four of the movies on the list are my picks, four are Brash's picks, and that was a way that we could be given a little bit of criteria for you guys to pick, and we are looking for community suggestions to put into those challenges as well. And some of the movies we watch will end up being topics for our podcast chats, so this was one of my picks.
Speaker 1:Venom the Last Dance was one of my picks picks for our podcast cats so this was one of my picks. The venom the last dance was one of my picks. We both agreed on it together, but I put it on as one of my picks. Next week, we're going to be doing another one from the challenge, so if you want to jump on board with it, definitely go on and look at that list and watch those movies yourselves, give them a rating and see how you go. So that is at phantom portals. All right, this is Aaron signing out. This is Brash signing out and we'll see you next week. Bye, everybody, see ya, bye, bye.
