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The Fandom Portals Podcast
"Welcome to Fandom Portals—the show that explores how your favourite fandoms can help you learn and grow!" 🎙️✨
Each episode, we explore TV, movies, comics, and games to reveal how these worlds and the characters in them help us learn about resilience, courage, friendship, and more.
The Fandom Portals Podcast is hosted by Aaron Davies and Adam Brasher, two friends who are obsessed with fandoms, storytelling, and building a community where passion and positivity come first. From Marvel to Middle-earth, Star Wars to indie comics, we dive deep into the stories you love — and how they help us learn and grow. ✨
The Fandom Portals Podcast
Unravelling The Phantom of the Opera's Enchantment: Gerard Butler Casting, Love, Villains, and Artistry on Set
This week, we explore the complex themes of love, obsession, and beauty in The Phantom of the Opera. As we discuss the film’s emotional impact, production design, and character motivations, we highlight the importance of kindness and self-awareness in relationships.
• Exploring the characters' motivations and their flaws
• Reflecting on the relationship dynamics between Christine, Raoul, and the Phantom
• Examining the production aspects and their storytelling importance
• Key takeaways focusing on kindness, self-awareness, and consequences of actions
We invite listeners to engage deeply with the story and its implications by sharing their own thoughts and experiences.
As we wander through the labyrinth of relationships, we'll ponder Raoul's privileged assumptions and the Phantom's menacing presence. The love triangle between Christine, Raoul, and the Phantom delivers not just drama, but lessons in kindness and self-awareness. So, as we celebrate the movie's emotional resonance.
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Hey everybody and welcome to the Fandom Portals podcast, the podcast where we explore fandoms that help us learn and grow. This week, we're looking at the musical turned movie Phantom of the Opera, starring Emmy Rosam and Gerard Butler. It was made in 2004 and this week on the podcast, we are talking about how the Phantom of the Opera looks at different forms of love. We're looking at how Andrew Lloyd Webber created a musical that has a nuanced set of villains, and we are also taking in that breathtaking set design from Joel Schumacher's movie. This week, I'd also love to give a really special shout out to Aaron from the Thrash and Treasure podcast.
Speaker 1:Since recording this episode on the Phantom of the Opera, we had some discussions through our social medias and he really is passionate, guys. He has a podcast about musicals and he has some iconic industry guests on there. So if musicals are your thing, make sure you go and check out Aaron. He also has a pretty cool first name, same as mine, and definitely go and show him some love, guys. Thank you so much for the chats Aaron Appreciate, appreciate them and thank you for being a part of the fandom portals community. Strap in, guys. We hope you enjoy this podcast on the phantom of the opera. Hello everybody, it's Aaron here from the Phantom Portals podcast and, as usual, I'm here with Brash. Hey everyone, how are you all doing? Well, today we are here to talk about the movie the Phantom of the Opera. Everybody's been talking about the musical Wicked, and we had a bit of a discussion about musicals over here at the Fandom Portals podcast and, brash, you chose this one for a particular reason. You want to get into why that was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so of all the movie makes of musicals, fandom of the Opera has been my favorite for many, many years and so far I have seen bits and pieces of Wicked and though it looks pretty good, I still like for me I can't compete to Venera the Opera.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I hadn't seen it, so I was very curious to check it out. But before we get into that, we're going to get into our usual gratitudes and growths. I might go first this week and I have a gratitude and growth. So my gratitude this week is for time with friends. So today I spent some time watching NFL with some of my friends. It's playoff time, so watching the football was really good filling out watching TV with them, and then now I get to podcast with Brash, one of my other friends, so it's been a good day of friendship happening today. So I'm very grateful to have such good friends, and also guy friends in my life. It's great that men have relationships with other men, platonically or otherwise, however it goes. But yeah, I'm just really thankful for yourself and for a lot of my friends for being around me. So thanks, brash.
Speaker 2:Of course of course, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then my growth. I was talking to you about this earlier. Actually, every time we come to podcast, brash comes in, he's ready to go and he sits down. He's got his notes all organized, he's you know he sat there in his mic and then I'm sitting here with my, my trade table I'll get a photo one day on social media but I've got my trade table, my ipad, everything's all over here and then, like, all these cords are hanging off me and I'm just like I gotta get this crap more organized. So that's my growth is that when you come to podcast one time, or when I go to you to podcast one time, we're gonna actually have it flowing. I'm flowing, I'm going to be going good with it. So that's my goal. That's my work in progress, also still working on the sleep thing. We'll see how that goes. Most people would have had it by now, but that's also still a growth. But now it's definitely organizing the podcast gear. What about yourself, brash? Gratitude is growth.
Speaker 2:A good growth, and it's actually quite similar to your growth. As I've found out this week, I've been not sleeping early enough, and it's really starting to affect me at work, yeah. So I gotta knock that shit off and I gotta get up a bit earlier, even just a little bit earlier like. I can. I can generally run off like four or five hours sleep, but it's rough.
Speaker 1:If I can just get that little extra hour, make it maybe like six hours, possibly seven, that'd be, that'd be ideal yeah, you know what, though I kind of it's tricky because for me, like, obviously I have a lot of responsibilities, as do you, but when it's night time, it's kind of like you get that time, that's it. You get to do some of the things that you like, you get that independent space and you don't feel like because when I, for example, when I play video games or watch a movie and I'm fully immersed in that kind of stuff, I'm detracting from relationships with others that are around me. I don't really want to do that. So when they all go to bed, that's when it's like, that's when I take that time, me, time, me, time.
Speaker 1:yeah, self-deprecating though, because it's like it's so.
Speaker 2:I understand. I really do, especially on the weekends for me. So I'm like, yeah, weekend, stay up late, oh yeah. But then it's like, oh, I slept until 10, 11 o'clock in the morning. That's a whole wasted like five hours that I could have been up pretty much doing what I was doing prior to getting sleep.
Speaker 1:Yep, I've actually heard as well that some people I say some people like they flip the script on that. So like they flip the script on that, so instead of staying up until X amount of time at nighttime, they'll wake up X amount of hours early, and that almost forces them to be disciplined in terms of when they cut it off, because obviously your life has to start. You either have to go to work or be with kids or do whatever, but like that sort of puts it in a timeframe, which is what I kind of would like to do eventually. But yeah, it's just, maybe we can keep each other accountable.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Text each other. Have you gone to bed? And then make the absolute call for 11 o'clock and be like. Text each other at 11, be like this is our bedtime and both of us give the thumbs up like, yes, bedtime, 11 o'clock. No later than that done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it'll get to the point where we'll end up having a growth three weeks down the track, saying Brash, I've lied to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been sending you that thumbs up and. I've actually been gaming my mother out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the tricky part. But, yeah, happy to hear that your growth has been acknowledged. But yeah, I'm keen to help you with that because you can help me with mine too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, grateful. I'm grateful for Ace.
Speaker 1:Fuck yeah for four weeks, but already don't tell my dog outside, but he's probably my favourite dog.
Speaker 2:he's awesome well, I'm grateful because he's a husky and I love huskies and when I when I first was like I need, I'm going to get a dog, ace's litter was for sale so I'm like I'll go pick up a dog and he jumped off first. He's a very timid dog, he someone picked up before me. We might think they might have been a little abusive to him. Yeah, a bit harsh Harsh to him because he's really timid around other people. But he warmed up to me very quickly, which is really nice. But yeah, he's very scared of other people, which is a little bit of a shame, especially when my friends come over.
Speaker 1:Like it's hard for them to like interact with him because he keeps running away and he won't come to me and I'll hold my hand out and I'll wait for him, but he won't do it. But then when we're podcasting, he's quite happy to like come over and say hello and lick my knees and stuff yeah no.
Speaker 2:So he's getting that trustful he is getting better and I'm taking him to like dog parks, so he's interacting with more dogs, seeing more people around and, yeah, he is getting better. But he's well Respecting, you know, Huskies and they're usually very talkative and loud. Ace is quite as a mouse.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's like the universe giving you what you needed at the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah no. So I'm grateful for Ace. That's good and he keeps me company too.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, man. He's the greatest. Third unofficial co-host. One day, when he actually says something on the mic or box on the mic, we'll graduate him to full official co-host. Who knows, he might go on to the talking. Well, maybe, maybe That'll be a Disney movie right there, the podcasting dog. All right, so that's how Gratitudes and Growth will keep each other accountable, with bedtimes. That's our goals. By the time this actually releases, we'll see how we've gone. But now let's get into our first segment of the day. All right, all right, so we are moving on to our first take segment now.
Speaker 1:This is where we discuss how we first encountered the media, uh, what our initial impressions of the media were and what our feelings were on the media after having watched it as well. During this time, we might also share some of our community's thoughts on the movie. Uh, and those people might have contributed to our podcasts thread page, instagram or letterboxd. If you want to be a part of those shout outs, you can definitely do that by following the links below in the show notes and following us on our social media, as we are at fandom portals everywhere. So might start with you, brash, this was a favorite of yours. How'd you first discover this movie or this musical, and what were your initial impressions? What were your impressions now, after a rewatch?
Speaker 2:How do you feel about it? So I I'm a secret lover of musicals. So, back in sort of high school and like, like, we've all seen musicals chicago, um, greece, all those kind of like, uh, musical movies and everything like that but, um, I only ever watched one stage performance I think it was les mis, when I was younger and so so they've always been like sort of a secret, like little pleasure of mine, but I've never really gone out of my way to watch any. When I was living in Victoria I had some housemates, one of which her name is Cecilia. She was very lovely, but she was really she was very classy. So we were about we were around the same age, but she was very classy only drank like wine, like red wine she was very cultured.
Speaker 2:Cultured, yeah, only liked drinking, like red wine, and she loved musicals. So the first time I actually ever saw Phantom of the Opera was actually watching it with them one night, as here's me on the couch with the girls drinking beer, watching Phantom of the Opera and, yeah, absolutely, absolutely loved it, stuck from there.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's how it happens sometimes with socialising and watching a movie with someone else. Is that connected experience of cinema For me? I love Lord of the Rings so much because I watched it with my dad in the movie theatre and that was the moment.
Speaker 2:So connecting those moments back to movies like that, I think I actually watched it on the year it came out, because it came out in 2004. I'm pretty sure that is when I watched it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So yeah, 20-year-old movie, the Phantom of the Opera, obviously adapted from the stage play by Andrew Lloyd Webber. For me, I'd always been around the peripheries of the Phantom of the Opera so I knew it existed, never dove in. I knew the famous mask. I knew the famous organ player. I knew it existed, never dove in. I knew the famous mask. I knew the famous like organ player. I knew it was kind of macabre in its design as well. But the time that I actually kind of really really knew oh, this is a stage production known as the Phantom of the Opera was when I was watching Nickelodeon's hey Arnold.
Speaker 2:And they did an actual I remember that episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:They did an episode and the Phantom of the Opera was actually in that episode with the mask and everything, and that was the first time I actually saw and knew about the character. And then it just slept for a really, really, really long time, never having watched it. So when you brought it up the other week that this is a musical that we should watch for the podcast, I was like yes, let's do it Absolutely. And having watched it, I actually I really enjoyed it, not only for the story but for the themes and things like that. I'm pretty hit and miss with musicals. There has to be a good underlining story and good character development and growth for me to follow it through to the end, because sometimes, you know, the songs don't always do it for me. There is always one or two that stick in your head, but sometimes the songs just don't really do it for me. So that was my kind of introduction to it as well, but having, as I said, having watched it, pretty, pretty, um, pretty Brash, pretty impressed. So we're going to go to our social responses. Now we're taking our responses, this time from Letterboxd and I sent some of these to Brash because they actually had me in stitches today.
Speaker 1:One person on Letterboxd Emily underscore F9, said about the movie that living in a basement and demanding 20,000 pounds a month for doing nothing is the kind of lifestyle that I aspire to have. So that was their comment on the movie. Somebody else on Letterboxd one of our community members named Mr, said I like it when it goes dun, dun, dun, dun, dun dun, and they've actually spelled out all of the U's in dun. So it happens when somebody gets zero lovin' for a very long time Can see that. And other people said that you know, growing up is realizing that Christine was better off with Raoul than there was with the Phantom. And other people have said that they watch this at least once a year or they feel pretty sad. So that was Mummy Longlegs that said those ones as well.
Speaker 1:So let's give a brief plot outline for those of you that don't know, and also big spoiler alert. This is a 20-year-old movie, but spoiler alert if you don't know the things that happen in the Phantom of the Opera, we are probably going to be spoiling some things for you today. So keep that in mind. All right. So this is a classical musical. It comes to the big screen for the first time and is about a deformed since birth, a bitter man known only as the Phantom, who lives in the sewers underneath the Paris Opera House. He does fall in love with the obscure chorus singer Christine and privately tutors her while terrorizing everybody else in the opera house. So, with that being said, let's dive into our Phantom Fact Face-off segment for the week. Okay, so the fandom fact face-off segment is where we ask one another a series of trivia questions associated with the movie which is the Phantom of the Opera In sleep, he sang to me.
Speaker 2:In dreams he came, that voice which calls to me and speaks my name. And do I dream again, for now.
Speaker 1:I find the phantom of the opera is there inside my heart, and the host with the most collected points from the Fandom Facts Faceoff segment after four weeks will shout their opposing co-host to an all expenses paid trip to the movies. This is the fourth week, brash, and it's five all. So we each ask each other three questions, so from nine potential points we have five, which means we're kind of just above 50%, which isn't too bad. You can start off with your question this week, brash. Off you go, okay.
Speaker 2:So both Gerard Butler and Patrick Wilson both hated something on set or hated doing something on set. Do you know what that is?
Speaker 1:Okay. So Jared Butler, who plays the Phantom, and Patrick Wilson, who plays Raoul, in this movie both hated one thing, I'd probably have to say the prosthetics. Jared Butler having a prosthetic across the face and Patrick Wilson having the old man prosthetics, you would think, because they both took like six hours for Gerald Butler and Patrick Wilson, but no, they both hated doing the water scenes.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, during the catacombs. Yeah, they both just hated it Because, yeah, happened to get in the water.
Speaker 1:They just hated it. Well, that being said, I think it was shot in England as well. It would have been cold, it would have been cold, would have been cold, would have been cold.
Speaker 2:Patrick Wilson actually had a lot of underwater shots because he fell into the chamber during the meeting and obviously had that portcullis fall on him and then the Phantom had to string him up on the gate in the water and they had to wade through the waist-high water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I read as well during the production design that they actually used dyes and various different sort of To colour the water.
Speaker 1:To colour the water different sort of to color the water, so it definitely wouldn't have been a nice experience. So, yeah, there you go. The water was something that they hated. All right, my turn. Here we go. Uh, during the production of this movie it was originally green lit in 1989 and it took a very long time to come out in 2004, and during that time they were obviously looking for the perfect actor to be the phantom of the opera. Um, I might bring this up in a little bit of a newer segment a little bit later, but who was one of the actors who was considered before Jared Butler was cast and couldn't do it because of scheduling conflicts with a movie that they did during that year.
Speaker 2:Oh, there was heaps Like. Antonio Banderas was one. Yeah, that was one. Who else Matthew McConaughey? Yeah, he was. Yeah, that was one. Who else Matthew McConaughey?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was another one that was considered. Who else? Both of those two lost out to Gerard Butler, but this one in particular was sought for the role and couldn't commit due to scheduling conflicts. The movie that they committed to instead of this one was Van Helsing.
Speaker 2:Oh gee, hugh.
Speaker 1:Jackman yes, that's Hugh Jackman. Hugh Jackman, yeah, he was considered and contacted by Joel Schumacher and Andrew Lloyd Webber, and he simply just said he couldn't do it and that it was a shame. Funnily enough, I also saw that Anne Hathaway was up for the role of Christine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she can do it because of Princess Bride.
Speaker 1:Not Princess Bride is too, yeah, and those two then later start in um yeah, so we could have had an earlier collaboration between those two. Um, all right, so that is one nil so far, which brings our total scores up to six and five. Your turn for your second question, brash okay.
Speaker 2:So this one is pretty much to see how much you paid attention to the movie, so, while watching it, because something from inside the movie. Okay. So after christine takes on the role role that Colletta was meant to do, but she gets the drape Andre, one of the new managers of the play, says three words. That is his, well, what he thought of her performance when they're up in their little palisade. What were those three words?
Speaker 1:I'll give you a hint. They're all Magnifico, perfecto and amazing-o oh what's that last one?
Speaker 2:You're close. They all end in O.
Speaker 1:No, I don't know the last one.
Speaker 2:So it was bravo. Oh sorry, it was brava, brava, magnifica, stupenda there it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very good, that was a good question, nice.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's like one of my favourite scenes of his, because he's just so, because he just says it with such vigour.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, and it's kind of poignant too in that moment, because both of them obviously banking on the understudy of Christine to come out and take the stage and she just smashes it and she just smashes it out of the park.
Speaker 2:And then when they get the messages from the Phantom, they're like oh, we'll dismiss that, even though he's just done something for us. That's probably going to make us a lot of money yeah exactly right, idiots, I know.
Speaker 1:Should have just listened to the Phantom, exactly.
Speaker 2:Everyone listened to the Phantom and everything would have worked out fine.
Speaker 1:Yep, absolutely you. My second question, all right, uh, so emmy rosem uh had a really great year in 2004 when this came out. She starred in the phantom of the opera and was actually nominated for a golden globe award for best actress in a musical or comedy. She also starred in another movie earlier in that year. What was that movie?
Speaker 2:hmm, oh, it wasn't shit. What's that movie called um? The one with um gyllenhaal, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, tomorrow, no, not tomorrow, um yep disaster movie. Uh, oh day after tomorrow.
Speaker 1:it was the day after tomorrow. Yeah, there, it is the day after tomorrow. So, yes, in 2004 she uh, starred in both of those and since then obviously only going going on to smaller bit parts, but she lost at the Golden Globe in that year, unfortunately, because I think, as Christine, she does do a phenomenal performance. As I said to you before we recorded, she's like the standout for me, I think. All right, your final question, brash.
Speaker 2:Going on another Emmy sort of question how old was Emmy during the time of Phantom?
Speaker 1:Okay, so there's obviously the scene at the end that has her headstone.
Speaker 2:So not her character like her actual age, because she was quite young compared to her co-stars. Oh, her age Cheryl Butler being 34 at the time and Patrick Wilson being 30. Yeah, there was quite an age gap. She was 17, wasn't she? Yeah, she was, yeah, 17,. Yeah, yeah, there was quite an age gap she was 17, wasn't she?
Speaker 1:yeah, she was, yeah, 17. Yeah, I know that Joel Schumacher definitely sort of was looking to bring the age of the cast down because Andrew Lloyd Webber, obviously, having cast Michael Crawford and Sarah Brightman in the original stage production, them being a little bit older he thought that the innocence of Christine was something that could be utilised for the whole cast, because of Christine was something that could be utilized for the whole cast because the Phantom and the tricks that he was kind of playing on him, it kind of plays on that sort of innocence of character and the arts, the gullibility.
Speaker 2:Like she doesn't know any better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's almost like her first instance or look into various different forms of love, which we might get into a little bit later, because there's obviously the love she feels for Raoul and the love she feels for the Phantom that comes into contention a little bit later. All right, my last question, last one. See how we go Scores currently tied Six all, so this one is for the win. Oh shit, oh no Pressure.
Speaker 1:Here we go. All right, this one's a directorial question. Joel Schumacher very famously directed two movies in particular that childhood favorites of mine. But he used the kind of gothic inspiration from designing the city from those movies to design a lot of the sets in the Phantom of the Opera. Do you know what movies he did prior to these in?
Speaker 2:terms of.
Speaker 1:One of them will be Batman. That is the one. Yeah, so Batman and Batman Returns, batman Returns yeah, yeah. So Joel Schumacher famously directed Michael Keaton in Batman and in Batman Returns as well, and he used that gothic sort of stage production in order to build and inspire some of the sets for the.
Speaker 2:Phantom of the Opera. He does love his noir. He does Because he does the number 23. Some of the sets for the Phantom of the Opera he does love his noir. He does Because he does in the number 23. And I don't know, that's a thriller, so you might not have watched that one. No, I don't watch the thrillers, unless I made two, that's got.
Speaker 2:Jim Carrey in it and it's probably Jim Carrey's one of his first more serious roles and in that it cuts in like their actual scene. It cuts back into like a dream sequence, past life type-esque thing, and it's very noir-esque. It's sort of filmed a bit like Sin City. Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Very good cinematography in Sin City too. One thing I did notice was that was very similar between Gotham and the production design in the Phantom of the Opera was Joel Schumacher likes to use a lot of the human figure in his architecture. So you can see the stunning looking actual theater of the.
Speaker 2:All the statuettes in the ceiling of the opera house.
Speaker 1:And then, as you're going down to the Phantom's lair underneath, All the arms holding the candelabras on the walls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the male human figures holding up the roof, it's just. And then there's always this scene in batman that I remember is the batmobile just driving along the back of that, the, uh, human-like figure that's architectured into the gotham bank. So, yeah, he does like that sort of theme as we go through. So he's got a style old joel schumacher that he likes to stick to. But I think for this that was just perfect because it kind of hit that macabre vibe and also that sort of like the, the french kind of opera houses obviously had this, this look, and looking at it from a modern day perspective, it's super beautiful, very intricate, but it's also like a little bit creepy to me, yeah, and I think that's kind of the vibe that it sort of wanted to give off.
Speaker 2:Which success, well done well, I do love how they shoot that scene of the candle ilight getting held by the arm when they walk through that corridor. And then when you see Madame Geary's daughter go down there later, there's nothing there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's completely mundane, it's mundane.
Speaker 1:And darker as well, and it's almost like it kind of makes you question in that moment as well. It's like, was the character of Christine just enamored by the phantom's presence? I know this is based on the original text and in that moment it is vastly well known that he, you know, he drugged her as he went down into that that sort of layer. So was that sort of what they were trying to play off in this moment that she was seeing fantastical things? Uh, was the intoxication of the love that the phantom was sort of expressing in this very raw and physical and visceral way, or was it literally just hallucination based on fear, or just bad artistic style.
Speaker 2:They probably didn't want to have people getting drugged in the movie. Yeah, true.
Speaker 1:Because that would have probably Taken away that PG rating yeah.
Speaker 2:So they're probably more. They're probably like oh, she's probably just in this sort of trance-like state of like yeah, obviously he's never really seen him before, she's never seen him before and all she knows is that he's just this.
Speaker 1:Mysterious, mysterious yeah.
Speaker 2:And just sort of captivated, and just the things he's singing to her is just what she believes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very good. All right, let's get into our real deal segment. All right. Yeah, very good. Alright, let's get into our real deal segment. Alright. This is the real deal segment, where we randomly select a criteria or lens to view this movie through and we discuss these elements with the intention of finding out whether it can be rated positively or negatively. Each week. The names of these positive and negative criteria will reflect a sort of fun element of the movie, and topics can range from anything between cinematography, character development and villains and themes, things like that. So, brash, I might let you go first for this one, but before you do, I will tell you what we are calling our categories this time, today. The category if you think something is well done or good. We're going to call it Lavish Landlord.
Speaker 2:Just a brief reminder my salary has not been paid.
Speaker 1:Send it care of the ghost by return of post PTO. No one likes a debtor, so it's better if my orders are obeyed. And that's because the Phantom of the Opera just obviously owns this building and charges people $20,000 a month to live there or to do the things that they do there, and that's really good business. So, and the bad one I'm going to do is for this one is Creepy Whisper.
Speaker 2:Insolent boy, this leave of fashion basking in your glory, Because he's very fond of the creepy whisper. Yeah, he does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, back alleys of the opera theater house. So let's randomly generate our topic, all right, so the first one that we have generated is cinematography. Brash, do you want to kick us off?
Speaker 2:Yes, I love this one. I love the cinematography of this movie. So what's our good word for this one?
Speaker 1:Our good word is lavish landlord.
Speaker 2:Lavish landlord. So this would be a lavish landlord for me. I absolutely love it At the very start. It first shows Paris black and white because it's back in 1782.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was 18 something. 18? No, you might have been right, it's 17,. Yeah, I think it was like 1784.
Speaker 2:But it starts off black and white. Black and white, but it starts off black and white. Black and white. You see like kids playing around the front of the opera house, old timey cars driving through and then even just still horses and carriages. And then you go inside and they're doing the auction and then they go through a few auction pieces, like the music box that an older Raoul gets, yep the chandelier, for that movie alone cost them 1.2 million.
Speaker 1:That's an expensive chandelier. Oh man, the diamond well, I'm going to get into this later, but the diamonds man on that, stunning, yeah, beautiful. But yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Is that black and white? At the start, to the point? I was watching this with Kalia again and she was questioning the quality of the movie that we were watching, because she was like how old is this movie? I was like it was made in 2004. And because she saw like the crackling of the black and white and things like that. And she said is this like a poor definition movie? Is this a bootleg? I was like no, no, this is legit. And then I said I think it might be intentional.
Speaker 2:And yeah, eventually, and then, yeah, they auction off the chandelier. And that's when it's the auctioneer says the falling of this chandelier is a monumental time where the place was cursed by a ghost or a phantom, and he's like, well, maybe a bit of illumination, might? We've had our guys fix up the chandelier with electrical lights because now they have electricity, being like what? Up the chandelier with electrical lights because now they have electricity. Being like 40 years later, yep, 40-50 years later, and they have electricity now. So they've redone the chandelier up and he's like alright, boys, and they take off the cover, organ music starts the phantoms theme, they start lifting up the chandelier and it turns on.
Speaker 2:There's lights everywhere. All this wind blows through everyone's hair and just blowing everyone's clothes. All the dust and leaves get blown away, all the cobwebs, and as all the wind blows through, everything starts getting cleaner and nicer and the colour starts coming back to the room as it sweeps across the entirety of the Paris theatre or Paris Opera House and all the cops get swept off, all the statues, and they just come alive it looks immaculate absolutely immaculate.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I really love that scene too, because it kind of swept away almost like pulling a rug away or a sheet off of the chandelier. It swept across from left to right on the screen, from colour to black and white, and the only time I can vividly remember that happening in another movie was like when Dorothy opened the door to the Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like black and white and sepia and then it goes straight into that beautiful color. But what was interesting about that was in a lot of movies it kind of goes the other way, like if you're talking about something in the past, it'll be in black and white and then when you jump to the future it'll be beautifully colored. But in this Phantom of the Opera it did it the opposite way, because it's obviously trying to show the audience that this was like the prime of this Establishment yeah, the establishment, the Paris Opera Theatre, and it goes straight into just the over-the-top costumes, the beautiful singing and design. There is just like a whole community living in this theatre, basically, which is a complete juxtaposition from what we've just previously seen, where there's just debris, leaves obviously a decrepidness, an abandonment, uh, it's a theater that hadn't been lived in for a really long time and then for it to then just sweep away in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really beautiful. And that. That was like immersion 101 for me, because as soon as it did that, I was like locked in. And you said about the organ music again that, as one of our reviewers said on Letterboxd, it's just like that Duh. Yeah, craig, we could do it for you podcast listeners, but we won't have to. Yeah, it's just that it's almost goosebump rendering as if it hits like something inside you.
Speaker 2:I understand and, yeah, it just gets you engaged, yeah, yeah, and how the wind just sweeps like as the wind sweeps over things and it just cleans up and just everything just looks so pristine. Yeah, because they had two other. They had the 100, they had the 100, oh sorry, the $1.2 million chandelier. And they had two other chandeliers, like they made a copy, one for the because they didn't want to break the $1.2 million one, oh yeah, and then another one that had electronics in it for that initial first scene.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, well, the budget. I'm not sure how much the budget was, but I know that it was partially independently produced by Andrew Lloyd Webber. Yeah, I know he put in some of his money for it because it was obviously a passion project of his that he wanted to get off the ground. But having a $1.3 million chandelier, obviously it is a very poignant and central piece of the musical itself. Having it fall traditionally, as I read in the Phantom of the Opera, it falls after the end of Act One and it signifies the descent of the Phantom from being a mysterious, aloof love interest to rageful and vindictive and violently lust see the fall, yeah, the fall, and in this one it obviously signifies the climax of the movie.
Speaker 1:And um, it happens a lot later on, but still the same same sort of transition happens with the character attached to that chandelier as well.
Speaker 2:70 million 70, 70 million was the budget. That is not bad bad and it grossed 51 million, so it didn't quite make it. 151? No, 51 million, 51. Is that total worldwide? No, so that was gross. Us to Canada, that was 51 million. What's the worldwide Gross?
Speaker 1:worldwide 154. There you go. So it did make a profit yeah, not in US but obviously worldwide For a stage turned film musical.
Speaker 2:They're kind of hard to do. I've heard as well oh, I'm like because this goes with the cinematography but also the choreography having like having so many of those like so many people like dancing around and that they've got a camera like the camera that goes down the hallway while they're all just dancing around like it'd be.
Speaker 1:It'd be hard, yeah, it'd be hard the cinematographer was John Matheson, and he did. He was nominated for a Academy Award and Oscar for for this didn't win, but was nominated and recognized. It also brings to mind the scenes that were shot outside of the, the opera house, the theatre house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was so cluttered but there's so much going on in terms of the carriages moving here and there, the fireworks going off in the sky, just the lighting. And then I watched the making of documentary and you can hear the director, joel Schumacher, just talking over this bullhorn, across the whole thing, and imagine being a director or cinematographer and watching it and scoping out and seeing every single person and just seeing one guy in the corner that just like is eating a bag of chips or something, and you have to do the whole thing again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, yeah, having to reset, because I know they've had they do have to reset and do a couple of the songs a couple of times. But yeah, having to reset and do all that again and again and again, holy that's money too, because you've got all those extras and yeah yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It's just a masterpiece really to pull off and do it so well. But yeah, I think that was. Yeah, that's a really good real deal with the cinematography, because I think, in terms of transitioning a musical to a film, it's done quite well.
Speaker 2:And all the scenes are just absolutely fantastic. Like never did I watch it and be like, oh yeah, this was made in 2004. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Like everything seemed like it would be. Like they had no. Like all the torches at the front. They're all like was all actual fire? Yep, like there was no actual like lighting, lighting was all candles candelaras.
Speaker 1:And it kind of goes into like the practical effects of it, using all those sort of practical effects in that time and then using CGI to enhance what's already there. I saw some complaints because I was wondering how this was received when it came out, because I know that from my experience people that love musicals, they love musicals.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, they love them so much. And musicals that go from stage to a movie, yeah, that can be highly critical and I know that there were some of those as well. They didn't like the differences between the film and the movie, and I know that there are some. But, that being said, andrew lloyd weber was given 100 creative control yeah on this, this movie with joel schumacher, and joel schumacher was the first director that he considered and wanted yeah, the role as well.
Speaker 2:So there are a couple of funny things I love about this movie. It's how they are able to make things move with just a slight flick of something yeah. So like Jerome Butler pulls on the string, the drapes come down on the bed. She wakes up. She pulls the string, the drapes go back up, yeah. Or when Patrick Wilson's getting about to get crushed by that the grate coming down on top of him, he turns the wheel slightly he turns it a little bit and it goes all the way back up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, oh man, alright, let's get on the cogs in that thing. Let's get our next one for the real deal segment, alright. So the next one is the production design or set design. So, going on from what we just said about, you know, the, the simplicity of the, the various different mechanisms, the entire set from what I, I have read, the entire set of the, the, the theater, the paris theater, was actually, uh, created in order to keep with the grandiose sort of theme of it and you could stack up to 900 people in the theater that they kind of built.
Speaker 1:And they shot it all in London in the Pinewood Studios, and they built the opera house and they also built varying, different, connecting sort of set pieces together for the lair of the Phantom and, as we talked about before, with the architecture of it, just those beautiful busts looking, when it was a full-on shot of the Paris Opera Theater on the interior, I found myself just looking at the things around the building because it was just that intricate and that beautiful and it paid into that sort of gothic theme and on the face of it it was perfect.
Speaker 1:The reds were so vibrant, the gold was so beautifully stunning, the booths were, all you know, perfectly curtained, and then the seats were all velvet and red and the stage had the beautiful sort of firelights that go across that lit everybody up in the most perfect of ways. And then it sort of teed it up into the backstage of it and you saw where the letchers sort of hang out, the people that operate the ropes and stuff, and there's these intricate wires and various sort of platforms and things like that that were built. And all of it was just completely built for this movie. And it goes back to what I've sort of talked about with Gladiator 2 as well and Ridley Scott how if you build the playground, it makes the actor's job really easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I found that that was really immersive for me as well just to see that theater built in its entirety because it did its job.
Speaker 2:I was looking at it all like the set design was absolutely perfect yeah, I used to build sets for a local theater group or help them build sets and like obviously nothing like we can compare to anything that they've done but I mean like a lot, of, a lot of work goes into it. But for that being all made, I'll put in the work and I put in the effort and it pays.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think they said there was about 200 builders that came together to just put it together. Yeah, just the interior of that, the auditorium of the theater space, but then they also built the lobby area with the staircase where they held the masquerade ball.
Speaker 2:Masquerade. One of my favorite scenes is masquerade ball. Like that was one of my favorite scenes masquerade.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was completely laid and built as well. Yeah, just just a stunning sort of visual beast, really, because there was something to look at in every turn of the film. Yeah, and then, obviously as well, we talked about the, the chandelier being built, weighing over 2.2 tons or whatever. It was. Yep, um, the, the scene where that actually was going to crash down. In this documentary that I watched about it, they had one take, obviously, to do it, so everything had to be perfect and obviously there was no people in the auditorium when they did it, so they had to then combine the CGI of the people below um, with the, with the, with the chandelier sort of crashing down into the space.
Speaker 2:So yep, and they actually used 2004 live production to get the actual live performance to stay behind when they did the crashing down scene, to get the noises of people screaming and running and everything like that to use in the actual movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the Paris Opera House, or the Paris Opera Theatre, is obviously based on the Palais Scania. I don't know if I pronounced that correct, but it's an actual, real place in Paris that holds shows and things like that. But imagine being in the audience for that and then the stagehand just coming up and saying, hey everybody, just for a moment, can you just all act crazy and run out to each and all of the doors or at least scream like your life, then becoming part of the one of the most famous film adaptions of all time. Yeah, that being said as well, with the lavishness of the, the theater and the depth of it, they also, um, they burnt it as well, in the theme as well, because they wanted realism. So, putting in all that work to build it and then, and then burning it at the end of destroying it, yeah, it's just yeah.
Speaker 1:The commitment that they kind of had to that was just it was turned up to 11. I also liked that the fact that they built this gave depth to the opera house, like the theater house. So they had actors, they had set designers, costume designers, makeup artists, prosthetic people and they all kind of lived in the theater house as part of the times back in the 1700s and 1800s when this kind of show was happening and everybody was employed there and it kind of gave that feeling because of the intricacy of the backstage.
Speaker 2:It sort of reminds me of the scene in Titanic, when you get to see the underbelly of the Titanic and all the people who go on there for free or on the cheap tickets. And they're all fucking on there singing and dancing and drinking where the fun is and you see that in this one because they're all pretty much a family, pretty much they're all close-knit. After shows you'll see a couple in the corner making out somewhere, people up on the top drinking beer.
Speaker 1:They start doing jigs and playing games and yeah, and yeah, they were just very, very confined very close quarters.
Speaker 1:But then there was always just the, the idea in my head that it was like a labyrinth, like a never-ending maze, yeah, and the, the lech character of, of bank banquet, joseph banquet, yeah, he just kind of went around and just you know, peeping tom kind of vibes, but he also gave a lot of insight into how the theater operation kind of worked in the back end of it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I just love how you could almost look at the theater as a character and also in combination with the Phantom. When you're looking at the Phantom as a character who looks really shiny and pristine and awesome on the outside with his manicured mask and his suit and his slick-backed hair, but then as you go down into the tunnels below it's that weaving labyrinth of just like gothic, macabre, serious sort of undertone organ vibes and you're kind of just thinking to yourself, okay, so on the surface the Phantom looks awesome, but underneath the mask he's disfigured. And as you look at the theater, you can also see that on the surface of it. In the auditorium, when you're looking at the beautiful bronze and the and the, the red sort of curtains looks very beautiful, but underneath when you're looking at the stalagmites and the dirty, murky water and you're going into the candle lit areas and you're kind of like there's a darker side to this too. So the theater mirrors the phantom and I loved seeing those two things put together.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, yeah, and that scene where patrick wilson's ralph's coming down the stairs getting led by Madame Geary and it's that big spiral just certainly looks down, it just looks bottomless, like it could, like it could lead to the depths of hell itself yeah, under the real um Polaris probably not like that, but no, there is actual tunnels and catacombs under the pit as well but probably not like a giant massive spiral staircase like spiral staircase to hell, definitely.
Speaker 1:Definitely yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, but yeah, because all that's got, all the aqueducts and everything like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was kind of there to prevent like a flooding sort of situation from occurring, I think. But I just kind of also loved how the lair of the phantom there of the phantom, there were all these sort of candles that rose up out of the water, but then there was that beautiful crafted organ in the back as part of the set design, just beautifully crafted, that the music sort of comes from and that sort of beauty within this maze and labyrinth that symbolizes the uh, the terrifying nature of the, the phantom, that that beautiful organ almost to me symbolizes his passion or genius for music. It's like there's that thing right there within this darkness. That is beauty and that was interesting for me as well how the actual place really mirrored the character. So, yeah, if we, if we talk about sort of set design production and we move on to like costumes and things like that, did you notice Christine's outfits throughout the movie?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, how they started off really like white and lacy and innocent and then, as it kind of went along and she was falling more for the phantom and going more down the path of these two sort of love interests, she started to wear more blacks and reds and, yeah, more, yeah, more, yeah, more color and more into that sort of um, that vein of unbridled passion and, uh yeah, confusion and so getting away from that purity, yeah, exactly, and I thought that was just really nuanced as well the way that it did that. Yeah, I liked it. I'm going to rate the cinematography.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, obviously it's going to be a lavish landlord. A lavish landlord all the way, yeah, all the way.
Speaker 2:All right, let's get our next one, all right the next one, that this is going to be a controversial one, I think, for most people. So everyone usually goes straight to the Phantom is the bad guy. I believe that they are all the villains In their own way, are all Villainous, villainous, all not as sweet and nice as they make out to be. I'm interested. Christine, yes, she was groomed in a way, I suppose, which is bad, absolutely yeah. But the Phantom noticed her talent, put time and effort into her career. Now he was doing it because he loved her Obsessively yeah.
Speaker 2:Obsessively. But at no point was he like he says he's going to steal her away and everything like that, but he wants to further her career. He wants her to be the best there ever was. He wants her to perform all these plays, performances and be absolutely famous. Raul comes along and is like, oh, we can go out to dinner and that yeah.
Speaker 1:Presents this high societal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and distract like to distract her from her career to what just become. Well, back in those days, it would be she'd just be a what trophy wife that sits around the house all day. When they have their first scene where she takes her mask because he's, he's a monster, then goes back up and sees raul and he's like, oh, we can't talk here. And then pretty much goes oh, my god, he's not fighting a monster, it's dude. He's been helping you for years, got you this awesome gig of being the lead woman in an opera show and you just turn around and be like he's ugly. I'd rather the hot guy. Yeah, no, I can see that. Like straight up, straight up was just like nah, he's ugly, and instead of him saying that he's been doing evil things around, it's no, he's just he's physically deformed.
Speaker 2:He's physically deformed, yeah, and it's like, come on man, yeah, come on, I get it, I get it, but um, wait, I'm just saying there's more than one Like, um uh, Coletta Mm.
Speaker 1:Coletta, just terror. The diva, the diva yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely terrorizes the place, and then any sort of little tiny little misfit chucks a fit. Oh, but me and Drava did such a good job, oh yeah, she did.
Speaker 1:Oh, such a good job. She doesn't even have an Italian accent.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And she isn't operatically trained.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, she tapped into her. She said to actually get into this role. She tapped into a neighbor, she, she lived in Venice. Oh man, yeah. So, but yeah, yeah, absolutely Villain the managers.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, villains, they come off as used car salesmen to me. Yeah Well, they came in from a scrap.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm sorry, Not a scrapping joint. A was it?
Speaker 1:a metal. No, no, he said it's not a junkyard. It's no, he said it's not a junkyard, it's scrap metal yeah, not a junkyard, it's scrap metal.
Speaker 2:But I love them, I actually love them. But yeah, they come in. He says I just want my booth opened up, paid $20,000. Yes, that sort of seems like a fucking extortion, absolute extortion, absolute extortion. But he, the Phantom, made that performance better oh, he did. Yeah, yeah, people lined up outside the door to see Christine not colour it as much as they want to try and blow smoke up her ass.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that kind of plays into that musical genius that you can see that he has been established as a character of the Phantom. He's got that musical genius. They didn't trust his talented view, so in a way here I'm going to play Devil's Avocado. Is the Phantom not a diva then as well?
Speaker 2:Well, that's it. By no means is the Phantom innocent. He is also a villain, but I feel his circumstances sort of force him to be. It's like a sort of reverse Hunchback, where the Hunchback is more even though he's deformed and everyone is mean to him, he still stays on sort of that good path, whereas the Phantom is sort of what the opposite could have happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like two sides of the coin and it's really funny because the hunchback of Notre Dame, that is a French story. The Phantom of the Opera is obviously a French story. Beauty and the Beast is a French story. There's like this obsession with the grotesque man doing good or evil things and the beautiful woman helping or haunting that character.
Speaker 1:It's a very common trope through French literature and it's crazy to see how enticing that still is for people to watch, because there's been so many remakes and so many different tropes that that follow that theme. But um, I I do kind of I can't get behind the Phantom, though Adam I really can't like he's a, he's a villain, but the villain was circumstance. Oh, absolutely, I do understand.
Speaker 2:I fully understand the fact that he's a, even when Raul learns about his head and kicked and thrashed and all that. And he had to. He unfortunately had to kill his captor to escape and Lady Geary helps him escape and puts him in the bottom of the opera house and that's all the life that he knew from there.
Speaker 1:So he obviously has no people skills. He's obsessed with the first lady that he sees, that he's kind of attracted to as well. He doesn't really know how to engage in the feelings that he's having. I understand that completely attracted to as well.
Speaker 2:He doesn't really know, how to engage in the feelings that he's having. I understand that completely. Yeah, as soon as Raul finds out, he's like you know what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go kill him, instead of being like, oh yeah, he's had a rough life, maybe we can try and get him some help. He's like, nah, I'm going to get my sword and kill him. No, I sees past that mystery to be curious enough to then have that sort of desire, and I feel like that desire doesn't really go away throughout the movie. No, yeah, because you can see it. She gets drawn to him again later on and then, obviously, when they do have that fight in the cinema role and in the cemetery sorry role in the Phantom, when he has the Phantom in a deathly position, it's Christine that asks for pity which he does, and then, obviously, at the climax of the film, she does show him that ultimate compassion where she says to him what's the line?
Speaker 1:It was the horrors of your face or the physical horrors of your face, something along the lines of the physical horrors of your face, something along the lines of the physical horrors of your face, aren't what dissuade me. It's the nature of your soul, and I think that's kind of what the message was along the way. Despite that, christine still showed kindness to that phantom, and then in turn he did the same thing, and then exactly right. So I think the message there is kindness breeds kindness.
Speaker 2:Cruelty breeds cruelty. Yeah, and he's pretty much only known cruelty. Yes, exactly right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I still think he's a bloody villain, though brash I mean he, he is, but like you can, sort of you can see how he got to that point absolutely, and you know what the nuance of this musical and this stage production, why people love it so much, is because there are people who love the phantom and there are people who love raul, and it explores that duality of love where it's you're going with in terms of the phantom, the mysterious, the seductive, the unknown, possibly the dangerous like. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but how many of us have a terrible ex?
Speaker 1:yeah, that like you can fit in those characters and we're probably someone's terrible ex. It's like like that as well. But then you look at the other hand, on Raoul, and you're looking at like stable, safe, attractive Money, money Like there's also passion there, I feel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and trust and there's like the childhood, like they have known each other for a while.
Speaker 1:The relationship and here's the thing that I think is good about it is that the relationship with Raoul developed in a trusting way over time. From childhood he always told her who he was, and then, when you're talking about the Phantom, the relationship still developed, but it was always developed through deceit, yeah so, and through shadow and manipulation and all that kind of thing. So, yeah, I think that that journey that that character, christine, goes on is one that we also all go on as people when we're looking at that as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, trying to trying to pick out the red flags. Yeah, that's the one I'd be, like the the the Phantom has red flags, like crimson, crimson. I love how. Like I don't know, because it doesn't really explore it in the actual movie compared to, like, say, a stage show. But all the ones where Christine's saying that he's like craving flesh and wants to kill, like murdering people and killing people, and at that point in time he killed one person, that's still one too many, bro.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:I know still want to be, but it's like one person and he and that dude was a creep. But yeah, so I like. Yes, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 2:Phantom is a villain, but I think I reckon he's more a villain of circumstance and could have been like and I think if Madame Geary had of well, at the time she was just a kid too, so she couldn't have really known. But I reckon if she had been more I don't like more communicative with him or like nurturing, nurturing with him it could have been a lot different. I think so too, because even though man can, you knew about him and kept him safe and hidden in that thing, at no point do they really ever like if she had just gone off and hung out with him every now and then or done something like that. Um, but it doesn't seem like it got that way. It got to a point where he hit on there. She might have thrown him some scraps every now and then, and then he just grew up not really having the best of what he could find yeah, um, and that just led to him being socially awkward.
Speaker 1:All right, so what are you rating this one? In terms of the villain brash. In terms of the you said everybody was a villain, but also the phantom was a villain. Effectiveness of the villain what do you think? Is it a, is it a lavish landlord or is it a creepy whisper? I?
Speaker 2:reckon, lavish landlord purely because you in this. So if we were to base off heroes, I'd probably say, I'd probably say I'd probably give it a what's our bad? Creepy Whispers. Creepy Whispers, if it was going off heroes, I'd probably give it a Creepy Whispers Going off villains. It has to be Lavish Landlords because it gives you so many different types of well, not so much full on villains, but it gives you so many iterations of what bad is.
Speaker 2:There's bad in different aspects. So you got like the diva, being better than everyone else and putting everyone else down. You've got the managers who just throw money at it and don't really give a shit. Financially criminal, they go off and sleep with their own staff because they are the managers. And then you got Christine, who is go off and sleep with their own staff because they are the managers. And then you've got Christine who is given pretty much this amazing career on a silver platter and then as soon as some hot guy rocks up, she's like bye and then goes off to the hot guy. And then you've got the Phantom, who is possessive and murderous obsessed, but then the cruelty is done to him.
Speaker 2:I reckon the fact that it gives you so many him is possessive and murderous, obsessed, but um, but then the cruelty is done to him, yes, so I reckon the fact that it gives you so many like, iterations of like, like, you can watch this whole thing and just pick a character and be like oh yeah, they have like, this red flag, this red flag, this red flag.
Speaker 1:It's just, it's just. I think that's that's the attractive nature of it, because every single character has a flaw and every single character lives those flaws. And if you look at it from a different character every single time, you can also sort of see like a different sort of layer to the onion that is the Phantom of the Opera.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so I reckon for villains plethora of just goodies, big lavish landlords.
Speaker 1:I think I'm probably I'm mixed with this one because I feel like, in your perspective, yes, it's definitely a lavish landlord for me, but if I just look at the Phantom as, say, a villain, he walks the line of romance and villainy in a way that I can't really commit him to either.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, like he's obviously and that's one thing, as I was saying like oh man, I don't know if it's artfully done in the way that I can't see him Like. The way that he's expressing his love is obviously completely wrong. But there is that sort of seductive, mysterious side to him, intentionally done by the writers and things like that. But there's also the villainous side of him. Where you're looking at, he's killing people, he's obsessive, he's just, yeah, completely unstable mentally in that sort of way. So you know, yeah, you think you know what I'm probably going to give it a. I'm going to give it a lavish landlord too. I think the villains are represented here pretty well.
Speaker 2:And probably a good note too is he all of his tropes and everything would realistically be based off of performances.
Speaker 1:He's had lived in that basement for many years just listening to operas and stage performances and the way that he connects with others, All of his romantic sort of side and he's sort of and that sort of mysterious side will probably all become from like characters from performances, because, realistically, the only kind of relationships he would have seen were the ones that are on stage, which then we could also breed into an argument of does too much TV ruin? Our people's minds Because we're seeing relationships built through TV, but that's a whole other story. So, yes, I reckon lavish landlords for the villains.
Speaker 2:It's done very well, and that's why it's so dramatic too.
Speaker 1:Like in dramatic, in everything he does is because he's always been listening to dramatic performances. Yeah, oh yeah, comedic, very, very, uh, attuned to entertainment and obviously real life isn't like that. Though he's also the worst theater guest ever. Do you remember halfway through the, the musical production? He's like I told you to leave booth five empty. It's like who the heck is this guy? He's like I told you to leave booth five empty. It's like who the heck is this guy? He's like another heckler. All right, let's go next one. All right, this one is the emotional impact of the movie. Yeah, in terms of the sort of love triangle between the Phantom Raoul and Christine, you're kind of looking at that. For me, the journey was watching Christine slowly realize that she's in a toxic relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah pretty much that she was in a toxic relationship Because the way that Emmy Rosen, as the actress, looked at Jared Butler as the Phantom when he was in the scene where they were descending to the lair, she was in awe of him in a way. That's like I wish someone would look at me like that. Yeah, 100%. And obviously she's doing that because she has not experienced love in that kind of way before and the Phantom is obviously playing on the relationship that he had seeded through time in that manner and the mystery and the sort of connection that they had. But yeah, that sort of connection that they have it's almost like a story about the maturing, like the way you mature as you love in your life. So if you're looking at it from a very sort of young love perspective, that is kind of how you go in. You throw your heart into it and you know consequences be damned, whether it be good for you, bad for you, whatever.
Speaker 2:You feel this At the time it doesn't matter, you feel this time doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:Yep, exactly right, and then that's kind of what's replicated on the screen, and then, later on, you start to develop some intelligence around that sort of space and you, you navigate your way to your Raoul, so to speak. But yeah, I think that, like for Raoul, it represents that that connection, that relationship that's developed through truth over a long period of time, I kind of didn't like, though. That being said, I didn't like that Rae will only recognize her when she was on the stage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as a star. And at that moment he was like oh, now I know who you are. And she's like, oh, my gosh Rae. And he walks past her and she's like, oh, I guess he doesn't recognize me.
Speaker 1:And then later on he's like, yeah, obviously admiring her talent at that point, yeah, and then you know, that's when he goes in without chaperones and takes the flowers in and and builds that connection in that manner and come on, man, dude, no, I agree, I think, um, yeah, that that's. That's how I sort of saw it in terms of the emotional impact. For me was that, and also as we, as we spoke about earlier, but I think I'll get into it more with our mvts is the the kindness sort of aspect, and it wouldn't really work.
Speaker 2:It wouldn't work if they didn't have that prior connection. Because if they didn't have that prior connection he saw on stage was like damn. Then goes in and gives a flower, like oh, we're going to dinner. And she's like no, I can't. She's like no, we're going down. Like. Because even though they know each other, he still dismisses what she's saying and is just telling her what she has to do instead of asking her what she wants to do. Yeah, and then he goes we're going to dinner, come, I'll get the horses ready. And she's like no, no. And he's like, come on, let's go. And she's like no, I said no, like no no, and he just dismisses her.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing I hated about Raul is that he just expected it. Yep, no, I get that. Oh, so yeah, I see what you mean, like his propriety, his privilege and his propriety kind of his character. Yeah like assumed that he could, even though, like he does, seem like a nice guy.
Speaker 2:But I think he has this sort of sense of he probably hasn't had a lot of people say no to him a lot, Even if he's unknowing of it, Like he might ask for something and they probably don't really want to do it, but they know his status so they say yes. So he's probably not used to people saying no to him a lot. And then Christine is like saying oh no, I can't.
Speaker 1:Well, I know that in the original stage production, raoul's role is actually kind of minor, yeah, but in this one it's more pronounced. It's more pronounced because they're focusing on that love triangle instead of the Phantom being, this murderous and hateful being, which is more pronounced in the book as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but if they never had that connection at the start, like childhood friends, Raoul would come off a lot. He'd seem a lot worse I think so Than he is.
Speaker 1:There is that sort of element of trust and steadfast sort of love that's lasted through the years, that friendship they've had. That establishes the fact that that connection is kind of a good one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and then that probably, and then that would give more. Then that would make it harder for the transition from her realizing that the phantoms love and everything like. That's probably not a good thing compared to Raul, but if Raul didn't have that connection at the start, she's pretty much choosing one red flag for another red flag. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Realistically I think, though that is true, but I think, as the relationship develops and their connection strengthens through the song, the All I Ask of you song, I feel like raul sort of matures into like a, a pure love, yeah, instead of a well, yeah, whereas phantom's line um, just doing what I say is all I've asked is all I ask of you yeah, or doing what you're doing.
Speaker 1:What I tell you is all I ask of you yeah so I think, I think, initially, yeah, they both seem quite obtrusive, but then, as you watch the trajectory of those loves, those relationships, those emotional impacts, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that there's two choices there to be made, and Christine, obviously, is the one making those choices in the end. Yeah, I do like the conclusion of it. Oh, I think so too. I'm going to get into that when we're talking about our MVTs, because that conclusion for me was pretty good too. They did it to get into that when we're talking about our MVTs, because that conclusion for me was pretty good too.
Speaker 2:They did it, I reckon for me they did a good job with it. I reckon it's large landlords for me. Yeah, I do like the relations, but like, not even just for them, like the big three, like Miss Geary her relationship to the. Phantom and her trying to like. She warns everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she is the one that's kind of there Trying to be a mediator, yeah, telling them to actually take this seriously.
Speaker 1:And then they just blow Zara because they're rich people who don't give a shit about anyone else but themselves and profit, yeah, but overall I think in terms of the character connection, this movie is driven by that love triangle and the exploration of those themes through that love triangle. I think in the Phantom of the Opera, in this movie that's done quite well, so I'm going to give it a lavish landlords for that one for me, all right. So our MVT segment is where we discuss the most important thing we learned from the media that we have watched, and it could be something that extends our knowledge or something that we can apply to our life. It can be as simple as a piece of dialogue that stuck with us, or a thematic or moral lesson. It can be a technical piece of cinema craft or it might even be something that we just want to discuss with each other. We've kind of been sitting on this vein with me, uh, on and off, so we'll go my mvt first.
Speaker 1:Mine is the fact of, uh, outward beauty and inner turmoil. So talking about the fact that uh, obviously the, the theater and the phantom have that outward beauty, both have this inner sort of turmoil, but then the impact of kindness on those kinds of things. So obviously in the climactic scene we see the phantom in his uh uber possessive mode. He's strung up raul to to the, to the, to the Palisade, the Port Colise and the waters there, and he's saying you know, if you don't marry me I will kill him. And then you know, christine comes in and sort of talks to him and says you know, the thing that dissuades me most about you is who you are as a person inside. I know like what kind of equals he says something about her or, sorry, she says something about him in terms of what happened in your life, to understands and gives him that, that brevity, and takes that moment Like we were discussing before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Creature of darkness. What kind of life have you known?
Speaker 1:God, give me courage to show you you are not alone. She's the one that kind of takes that moment and goes yes, this person is the absolute epitome of bad right now. What made them that way? And for us as people on earth and not in the fictional reality of the phantom of the opera um, when you know life and death isn't at stake, I think it's very important to kind of take that minute and see, and that doesn't dissuade the responsibility of the person who's doing the action, like it's obviously their responsibility to do the work and to make sure that they know that their actions are hurting people.
Speaker 1:But also for us as individuals, if we see somebody like that, just think for a moment like what led them to this, to this sort of area. Because then in the movie it's, it's taken, as you know, she ends up kissing him compassionately, first time he's ever felt compassion and love, and that literally just changes his mind in a minute. And you know I'm not telling everybody to go and kiss somebody, that's being mean to you, but definitely don't do that. But taking that moment of compassion, you never know what effect that's going to have. So obviously in this movie she goes away with Raul and they're let to escape. In the book version of the Phantom of the Opera he dies of heartbreak, but in this one he obviously escapes and then still loves Christine to this day, having left the rose on the end of the grave scene.
Speaker 2:A fresh rose too.
Speaker 1:A fresh rose, yes, and the same ring. So yeah, I think that's my MVT is just that, the power of kindness and understanding, that inner beauty or outer beauty and inner turmoil kind of relationship. And you know what, in a more comedic sense it's happened lots and lots in movies, but in a more comedic sense it kind of reminded me of the movie with Jack Black called Shallow Hal. Yeah, so he sees the beauty of somebody's inside personified on their outside, as opposed to the beauty of somebody on the outside not reflecting what they are like on the inside. And you know, there's social media and all kinds of things that has developed over time, that has really progressed that narrative of outer beauty and inner rubbishness, you might say for some. But yeah, I think for me it's just that understanding and that moment of kindness, just to take that minute to think about somebody's situation first. That's my MVT. Yeah, damn, going deep this week, brash.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, damn, going deep this week, brash, yeah. Well, that was similar to what I was going to do for my MBT, because for me I have real compassion for the phantom and what he had to go through in his life. Yep, yep, it's very sad that people actually in life have to go through similar sort of roughness and then if they're able to come out on the other side better, then absolutely wonderful. But then a lot of people unfortunately don't, um, but sort of mine sways from that a little bit, not so much kind of sense of kind, kind of spreads kindness, but more being self-aware of how you treat people. So with coletta she's just full-on diva like, but like to the point where kicking and screaming and yelling at people, putting them down.
Speaker 1:If she was to like be more self-aware of her actions, I mean, she probably would still be getting a lot more work than what she probably, yeah, would be getting later a bit of a, a bit of a diva, as we said, and she treated people really the wrong way, having a curtain fall on her, and she had her voice messed with croaked, yeah, with the spray. So yeah, I kind of get what you're saying here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actions lead to consequences and it's about acknowledging those actions and the consequences and growing from them. So, even the managers they come in not knowing anything of the theatre, bought a theatre and, well, they end up burning down because, instead of them taking things seriously in the arts, they just used it as a cash cow. And, as I said, like one of the scenes when um, uh, um, christine goes missing cause the phantom took her down to his little lair, um, and she goes missing and like it's all in the tabloids that Christine and the stars go missing. And the old one's like, oh no, we're ruined. Like well, like oh no, we've ruined. Like all this bad publicity. He's like, yes, but publicity is publicity and they don't give a shit about christine.
Speaker 2:Like she goes missing and doesn't ever comes back. Oh well, too bad, we got publicity for it. We got people at the door like, and then, and then, eventually the um opera house burns down and yeah, they lose everything.
Speaker 1:the ultimate consequence, isn't it? It's like that lead up and that build up of people treating each other poorly, not having compassion around others, and each character suffers their own kind of demise. In relation to that. That's a really good takeaway, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, they, because at the end, when it's burning down, they say we're ruined. I do feel a little bit bad for Colette, though, because she ends up playing not the main role of that performance, but she plays one of the other roles and, like she doesn't kick and scream at, she plays it. But I think it's also because they want to try and capture the phantom, everything and then ends up losing her. I don't know if it's her husband or her, just her partner that she's always done all the musicals with, but the guy that phantom takes over in the role of and kills yep, yep, but um, yeah, she loses her partner in this whole escapade.
Speaker 2:She also pretty much her stage. Well, her performance as a leading lady is ruined from all the little things that she went through, because, instead of maybe working on her craft and she sort of got to a height and then thought that she was just so good now that she could never be undone, and then, instead of her continuing to perfect her art, she's probably just now living the diva life and it ends up being ruined because someone comes along. That's better, because they've actually trained and put in the work, and um is just now better and she's now second grade and doesn't take it too well, but I feel, feel and like in the Phantom, in the Phantom he holds on like he's overly possessive, holds on too tightly and eventually everything just slips through his fingers.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, like the crazy thing for me is, as we just talked about, everybody kind of gets their come up and saw their consequence for the bad stuff that they did in terms of not thinking about others.
Speaker 1:But the character of Madame Geary Geary, I think it's Geary, madame Geary, yeah, she shows the ultimate kindness to this young man, gets him out, sends him to the theater and things like that. Like she's not really repaid in kind for that kind of kindness, no, but then at the end, when Christine shows the Phantom, a second kindness in terms of that quote, unconditional love, where she shows him that compassion and that somebody can love him and care for him in that sort of manner. It is rewarded in that sense. So my question is yes, that's the message through the film, but the character of Madame Geary? I would just look at that if that was me as a character and think that was a big mistake. Being kind to that person, that was a really big mistake. I displayed kindness to the wrong person because now it's Backfired, backfired for 30 or however many years of coming for everybody at this theater.
Speaker 2:I suppose. But in doing so, like as the old manager of the opera house was, just hey, let the seat open, yep, and everything went smoothly. The reason why that manager got out was he was sick of the headaches of I'm assuming it was cold weather. Yeah, because she's been doing it for five years there.
Speaker 2:For five years she'd be performing there and I mean, if I had to listen to, yeah, that operatic, I know, yeah, I'd also have a headache as beautiful as it is, yeah, as beautiful, like me and my driver, fucking knocked out of the park and like she isn't that bad, but yeah, those high notes or just gives you tinnitus, but um, um, yeah. I think in respect to Mangiri she was pretty much like she was the what would you call it in stage.
Speaker 1:Which one?
Speaker 2:Mangiri.
Speaker 1:She was pretty much like the director In a different sort of circumstance you might call her the madam of the house where she kind of looks after all the lady performers, yeah, and sort of takes care of them and has them under the wing and talks to the owners and the directors on behalf of the actors and the things like that. So, yeah, you might say like the manager, yeah, of the female dancers, the ballerinas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all the dancers and stuff like that. So she's worked her way up the ranks and that probably happened in no small part of the Phantom sort of making sure that she was also probably in a position of succeeding or just helping out where he can. So there probably was, in a way, something that she was getting back for a while. But then she also was like once he fully took grasp of Christine and she's cause. She was always looking in the shadows and she always saw things and she was probably like, ooh, this is probably heading down a path that probably shouldn't Helping out. Raul told him the backstory, told him where to find him and all that other stuff, and end up helping out at the end because she's probably like well, we had a good run and now it's devolved.
Speaker 1:Or maybe her, yeah, her arc and her lesson would be something along the lines of you know, keeping a secret can be detrimental. Yeah, to the point where asking for help is okay sometimes. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Or maybe like, if you are going to offer that assistance or offer help to someone like you can't. It can't be like one and done, hmm, yeah.
Speaker 1:I get that.
Speaker 2:Like, say, if you had a friend who had a drinking problem and you went up and was like, hey, man, maybe we shouldn't drink for a day or night or something like that, and you're with them and then you're like, oh, you're sweet now and then leave. I know it's not on her to do that, but she's the one who brought him to the theater, helped him escape, got him out of there. She's already made that choice of helping him. She has to, or she had to, do better to, I don't know keep the support around keep the support there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because otherwise you're just sending him from one prison and putting him in another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, in terms of that, let's sort of, we'll wrap this up and we'll go into our next sort of segment, uh, which is a new one. All right, this is our segment called what If? Or Devil's Avocado, devil's Advocate, and we talk about, like, what could have happened in this movie. We just basically rip off different sort of things that may or may not happen. How may have changed the story in terms of the characters, or in terms of actors that play different characters, or like different choices the director made, and things like that. So, in terms of the characters or in terms of actors that play different characters or like different choices the director made, and things like that. So, in terms of what we were talking about before with Madden Geary, if she did offer those supports, he was a musical genius. Yeah, like this character of the Phantom was a musical genius. If she did help him and offer those supports after having rescued him, there is the potential that the Paris Opera House would have flourished in a brand new way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because he wears a mask to cover his deformed face and he looks good in a mask, I'm not going to lie. So he could always wear a mask if he really doesn't want to hide that, and it could be like I said. Said, look, I was born with pretty bad deformity on my face, so this mask hides it, so it's not disturbing to other people and like even only first telling that to a few people at start and then it can devolve, like evolve from there. But even because he is such a musical prote, like have him in the choir playing the music, have him writing up operas, director's, show Directors and stuff like that, yeah, directing.
Speaker 1:That goes back to like helping somebody and giving them support by facilitating their kind of passions or helping them find their own way in their passion, as opposed to, you know, giving them.
Speaker 2:And so, like I put this kid in the basement and just left him there to fend for himself. Good luck, kid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, here's a devil's avocado for you. So we know that obviously Jared Butler was chosen to play this role. How do you think Hugh Jackman would have gone as playing the Phantom? Because I know traditionally Joel Schumacher wanted somebody and Andrew Lloyd Webber also wanted somebody who didn't sing traditionally and wasn't really operatically trained, because it also signified the differences between Raoul and the Phantom. So Raoul, being played by Patrick Wilson, is operatically trained, sung very formally, which played into his character of being this sort of formal man. But then the mystery of the Phantom was he sung in this very different kind of way?
Speaker 2:yeah, because he wouldn't have like. He would have just had to listen to other people. He would know self-trained, yeah, self-trained and so his voice is a bit more, more gritty, a bit more rough but I think and I think that's what Gerald Butler did really well, because he's never had any training before yeah, at that point he hadn't, yeah, Even like his first shoot.
Speaker 2:he's never had any training before and he had to do the big. Which one was it? Point of no Return, Point of no Return song. So, whereas if you had Hugh Jackman in there I think it would be, how can he?
Speaker 1:be too clean. I think so too, because he was more stage trained as well. He had done the Boy From Oz at that point and he's very familiar with, like obviously, being around the stage environment, so that's a good point, I think. Yeah, maybe that Devil's Avocado wouldn't pay out so nicely.
Speaker 2:I reckon Hugh Jackman could pull off the gruff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% he could, Because he just needs to tap into that Wolverine baby. Yeah, but also I couldn't believably look at a scarred Hugh Jackman face and think what a deformer. Like anything you do to that man's face, he's still going to look great.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He.
Speaker 1:Australian treasure.
Speaker 2:I remember what did I read? Yeah, that Gerald Butler, his prosthetic that had a string attached to the bottom of his eye that pulled his eye down to make his eye look more deformed and like between takes all the cars come up and pull on the street.
Speaker 1:Oh, that was bad.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that being our last Devils Avocado, let's go on to our last segment. Okay, so the last segment of our show. What we always do before we sign off is we put these movies on our fandom portals on a board. What we usually do is we rate the media and place it on a letterboxd honor board. This board can be followed, tracked and found on letterboxd from the handle at fandom portal. So if you want to go check out where we're ranking our movies, then you can go and see it there. Currently, our letterboxd fandom portal's honor board looks like this brash. It has, in first place, the nice guys the Nice Guys with Ryan Gosling and Russell Crowe. It has sat there for one week, having toppled Venom, the Last Dance, which also sat there for one week, having toppled Red One, which also sat there for one week. So it seems like every week we're picking a better movie than the one that came before.
Speaker 2:I reckon this one might be the one that gets us. Do you think so? I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to look at your face and trying to read it Because, remember, guys, if it is a hung vote between Brash and myself, it goes to you guys. So you will be the community vote which breaks the tie to see whether it places above or below where we believe it should go. So do you want me to go first?
Speaker 2:No, you go first, I'll go first. Number one, number one, okay, yeah, phantom Opera is my number one. It is my favorite. It's not my favorite movie, but it's definitely my favorite adapted musical.
Speaker 1:Musical All right. So I look, the Nice Guys was such a nuanced sort of movie. Every time I looked at it it was something different. But in terms of having feelings when you're watching a movie, this one tops it for me. So I think I'm going to put it in number one too. I think this one tops the nice guys. I wasn't sure if you were or not. No, I think I will.
Speaker 1:As I said, musicals aren't my thing. Sometimes they hit and miss with me. This one was definitely a hit and I think it was also like the story behind the actual musical. As a totality, it is just a really good concept that invites and intrigues my curious mind. You know, there's this, this genius that's a mysterious sort of phantom like figure. Immediately, having not known anything about this, I was like what motivates a guy like that for one? And then you find out it's love, and then there's a love triangle and then there's all these beautiful performances and then you look at the movie in its entirety and you see all the beautiful sort of stage productions and like the songs and all those engaging moments and you're just like it just kind of draws you in and the scene that did it for me. The scene that did it for me was, from start to finish, the, the music of the night, that number that is such a going from from Christine's I'll say descent, yeah, from from the actual theater into the lair of the Phantom, just that whole moment in continuation I was just hooked. They had to shoot that like four or five times. Yeah, yeah, I read one time that the boat got stuck and everybody just you know they had a bit of a laugh because the boat got stuck. But yeah, I think that scene for me and the way that the whole film looked, I think it's going to be number one for me. Wonder how long this one will reign.
Speaker 1:If you want to follow us, make sure you do so. We have a Letterboxd where we have monthly watch lists for you guys to follow. Sometimes we take some of the content from those watch lists and do an episode on it on Fandom Portals and other times we just use it to talk about some common movies on our social media accounts. So if you wanted to watch along with Brash and I, make sure you go and follow us on Letterboxd. The link to that is in the show notes below. We are very active on Instagram and Threads. Some of those commenters are also shouted out on the podcast. So if that's something you're into, definitely go and join us on there.
Speaker 1:Again, show notes below for those links. And we are also on email. That is in the show notes below. So if you have a recommendation for the fandom portals podcast, make sure you go and send us an email on that as well. Uh, that's it. We're going to be signing off now. Remember, we are on socials and we are on emails for you guys to check out. Uh, we are at fandom portals pretty much everywhere. Uh, this is aaron signing off. Have fun, be safe.
Speaker 2:This is brash signing off. Um have fun, be safe. This is Brash signing off. Just make sure you always comment. We always love hearing your comments and any sort of criticisms.
Speaker 1:We love that too, because we only want to get better Everybody. It's Aaron here from the Fandom Portals podcast. Thank you so much for tuning into that episode. Frank, our amazing leader from the Geek Freaks Network has allowed me to give you guys the opportunity to win a Fandom Portals exclusive t-shirt. That's right, you can wear your Fandom Portals pride on your person by entering this giveaway. So big thanks to the Geek Freaks Network and to Frank specifically for allowing us to do this.
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