The Fandom Portals Podcast
"Welcome to Fandom Portals—the show that explores how your favourite fandoms can help you learn and grow!" 🎙️✨
Each episode, we explore TV, movies, comics, and games to reveal how these worlds and the characters in them help us learn about resilience, courage, friendship, and more.
The Fandom Portals Podcast is hosted by Aaron Davies and Adam Brasher, two friends who are obsessed with fandoms, storytelling, and building a community where passion and positivity come first. From Marvel to Middle-earth, Star Wars to indie comics, we dive deep into the stories you love — and how they help us learn and grow. ✨
The Fandom Portals Podcast
Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny: A Final Adventure or a Misstep? The Legacy of Harrison Ford
Episode Summary:
This week on The Fandom Portals Podcast, Aaron and Brash explore Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023), the final chapter in Harrison Ford’s legendary run as cinema’s greatest adventurer. They break down the film’s divisive use of CGI de-aging, the nostalgia-packed John Williams score, and whether the story gives Indy the sendoff he deserves.
From fan reactions on Threads and Reddit to a deep dive into character chemistry, plot structure, and the controversial ending, this episode is packed with insights, laughs, and maybe even a Fandom Fact Face-Off victory. Did Indy’s last ride live up to its legacy, or should he have just stayed in the past?
⏳ Timestamps & Topics:
00:00 - Welcome & Community Shoutouts
01:51 - Gratitude & Growths: Celebrating Free Time & Movie Nights
04:03 - First Takes: Early Memories of Indiana Jones & Dial of Destiny Reactions
13:01 - Fandom Fact Face-Off: Indiana Jones Trivia Showdown
28:07 - Reel Deal: Did the Story Structure Work, or Was It Too Bloated?
36:15 - CGI & De-Aging Tech: Impressive or Distracting?
41:34 - Character Chemistry: Did Indy & Helena’s Dynamic Work?
47:41 - Soundtrack & Score: John Williams’ Final Indy Adventure
52:23 - Most Valuable Takeaways: Lessons on Aging, Purpose & Legacy
01:07:27 - Devils Avocado: Should Indiana Jones be Recast?
🌟 Key Takeaways:
- Dial of Destiny struggles to balance nostalgia with fresh storytelling, leading to mixed fan reactions.
- De-aging technology creates a visually striking young Indy, but his movements and voice betray the effect.
- Helena’s role is polarizing—does she elevate the film or undermine Indy’s final journey?
- John Williams’ score remains a highlight but is used sparingly to reflect Indy’s aging.
- The film explores themes of legacy and purpose but struggles with pacing and emotional depth.
🗣️ Memorable Quotes:
🏺 "Indiana Jones has a lot of friends that he can call on for favors, but he doesn’t have a lot of friends that he can call on in moments of solitude and for company to keep." – Aaron
🕵️♂️ "They should have done Dial of Destiny a few years ago'" - Brash
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📢 Apple Podcast tags: Indiana Jones, Dial of Destiny, Harrison Ford, action-adventure, movie analysis, film podcast, nostalgia, CGI, de-aging technology, John Williams, pop cul
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Hello and welcome to this episode of the Fandom Portals podcast where we explore the fandoms that help you learn and grow. This week on the show, brash is back and we talk about the legend and legacy of Indiana Jones and Harrison Ford, specifically talking about the latest movie, the Dial of Destiny. We want to give a great big thanks to our threads, instagram and Reddit community that gave lots of input for this episode. So you may be shouted out in this episode if you are a part of our community Links in the show notes if you want to be a part of it and are not already. We also talk about AI and CGI and how they use de-aging technology within this movie. We talked about the amazing soundtrack by John Williams and we also discussed in our MVT section the importance of understanding your limits and the changing feelings of purpose when talking about internal and external validations, where Indiana Jones learns that the real treasure of life is the relationships that he makes along the way. So we are really pleased and happy to have you here at the Fandom Portals podcast and we hope you enjoy this latest one.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to the Fandom Portals podcast. I'm your host, aaron, and I'm sitting here with my co-host Brash. Hey everyone, how's everyone doing? Going very good today, brash, very good indeed. Now. Today we are here to talk about a franchise that's very close to my heart, probably one of my favorite franchises. We are talking about Indiana Jones, but more specifically, we're talking about the movie the Dial of Destiny the most recent one, brought out in 2023 starring Harrison Ford and we are going to look at the franchise as a whole. We will be talking about a few of the different movies in the franchise, but we'll be specifically relating a lot of the stuff we're talking to today to the dial of destiny.
Speaker 1:But before we get into that, let's get into our growths and gratitudes, where each week, we begin by sharing some personal gratitudes for the week in an area that we feel we require gratitude or growth in Gratitudes. For me this week, brash, I'm going to go with a simple one. I'm really grateful that I have a massive TV to enjoy amazing movies on, and that's like a very materialistic gratitude. But you know, a lot of people work really hard to get things that they really love. I worked hard to get that TV, so I'm really grateful for the reward of a hard day's work and I can sit back and watch movies with my family with it and do that kind of thing. So very, very grateful for a big TV and movies as well. Like movies is great, so that's my, my gratitude.
Speaker 2:My gratitude. Similar vein, but free time to, as you say, be honest with them watch movies, tv shows, play video games.
Speaker 1:Just decompress, Just that time yeah.
Speaker 2:Just sit down, forget about everything else and then just have a relax, yeah. And then it gets to like two o'clock in the morning and you're like, oh shit, I haven't done my washing, I haven't mowed the lawns, I haven't cleaned the house. And you're like, but that'll be it that's it. But in that period of time you just sit back and enjoy life. That is my gratitude, because I've been doing that every spare second I've had. I think this week has been me just relaxing. That's been really nice.
Speaker 1:Well, that's good when you work a lot. It's good to take those moments for yourself as well. It's part of self-care and well-being. You know you always need to do something for yourself. I'm glad that. Both of our gratitudes this week, I think us taking time to do some stuff that we enjoy and time for ourself, which is good 100%. Yeah, I like it. Let's move on to our first takes segment. Our first take segment is where we discuss how we first encountered the media or the movie, what our initial impressions of the movie was and what are our feelings after watching the movie. We'll also share our community's thoughts on Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny and if you want to contribute to that, you can go to our threads page. The link to that is in the show notes below. We're going to start with you, as always, Brash. What was your first take? How did you first meet Indiana Jones? What was your thoughts on Dial of Destiny after having watched it?
Speaker 2:So I think the first one I watched was actually Temple of Doom, and I watched that with my. My brother got it and I sort of wasn't allowed to watch it, but watched it anyway Naughty yeah, with my brother and his friends. It's similar to my first horror movie experience. I watched that with my sister. I wasn't supposed to and it fucking left me scarred for life. Well, it actually Okay.
Speaker 2:When I was younger I wanted to be a lot of things I wanted to be. But when I was like young young I wanted to be not so much Indiana Jones but similar band to Indiana Jones. I wanted to explore places that no one has ever explored before and find things Like archaeology kind of thing, yeah, treasure hunting I mean less so the schooling part of it but more just the adventure part of it yeah, like I wanted to go through like ruined temples and ruins, just ruins in general, through the jungle, like me going down the river or something like that and going through like the marshes and the rivers and stuff. When I was younger that was like me going through the wilderness. Yeah, back when kids used to play outside, exactly, exactly and yeah, like I used to love.
Speaker 2:Just I'd go into some random paddock. There's just overgrown trees and like trees I've grown with grass and shrubs and shit and I'll just go for all through there and pretend many different things, like sometimes I'd find a stick that looked like a light table, so I'd pretend to be a Jedi and start smacking up little trees.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I imagine I remember that too. I had a lot of Creek play time when I was a kid and definitely going through like drain pipes and pretending it was a cave and things like that. But you know that that semi dangerous stuff.
Speaker 1:Surprise, just surprised I hadn't been bitten by a snake or a spider or something doing that kind of stuff. But, um, considering we're here in Australia, yeah, but um, I was very similar. I did a few, uh, archaeology subjects in university as part of my teaching degree, just because it was an area of interest very much influenced by the fact that Indiana Jones existed. So, and I watched a special documentary on Harrison Ford and his legacy in terms of Indiana Jones, and apparently the year that Raiders of the Lost Ark and Indiana Jones came out, there was an increase in enrollments for archaeological fields of study In universities.
Speaker 2:Everyone wanted to be indie.
Speaker 1:That cultural shift and you know what A lot of it was males wanting to do that, but yeah, and then they get into it and find out there's nothing like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a lot of book work and the teaching aspect that he sort of goes through in there is very much the bulk of the job. But I think, yeah, I encountered Indiana Jones through it was a DVD collection that I saw it late in terms of my movie going experience. I always knew he existed as Harrison Ford, indiana Jones. I was very well acquainted with him as Han Solo, as Star Wars, because that was literally my childhood and seeing him as these two different characters in two massive franchises through the you know 80s, 90s and 70s as well, recognisable as two different things for one.
Speaker 2:Surprisingly similar. Yeah, surprisingly similar, surprisingly similar, and that Surprisingly similar, surprisingly similar. And that was a challenge that he had. That I've read as well.
Speaker 1:He had to really kind of define both characters as being slightly different in different kind of ways. But you know you're silly not to if you don't draw on the strengths of one character that you play to make another popular.
Speaker 2:Both renegades, both rugged heroes. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1:Yep Roguishly handsome.
Speaker 1:Roguishly handsome, yeah, with a heart of gold, always, you know, leaning towards the correct side of the law or not, but yeah, so for me it was a DVD collection. I watched it. I think I watched it with my brothers and it was a situation where it was back to back to back. You watched all of them and I watched Raiders first and then I watched Temple and then the Last Crusade and I was almost going to quit after Temple, honestly, because I was like I was early, early teens, probably about 13 or 14. But, yeah, some darker themes in that one, some darker themes in Temple. So that was my first kind of take of the franchise. But if we're talking about Dial of Destiny, literally watched it for the first time to do the show, so watched Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and for me that was like a all right, I'm out.
Speaker 1:Indiana Jones is no longer for me and I think that's echoed with a lot of different people throughout the Indiana Jones franchise, because it was just everyone kind of feels like it was a step away from what they used to in fact, in terms of Indiana Jones, and it took me a long time to adjust myself to need to watch, or want to watch Dial of Destiny and I was always curious because I love the character of Indiana Jones and I was very happy to jump back into it with this installment. I think for me there were some things that I really liked about this movie. There were also some pretty big gripes for me. So in terms of how I feel about it now, having watched it, kind of middling and I'm happy to discuss those things today. What about you, brash, how do you feel about the Dial of Destiny, specifically after watching it? Big exhale.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I think if I was to watch Dial of Destiny back in the day, I think I would have enjoyed it more, but now it's just like they should have done. They should have done Dial of Destiny a few years ago, I think. Now it's gotten to a point where you see Harrison Ford trying to be in danger. Like dude, just go to a dressing room. Yeah, that makes me sad. You have no business jumping around cracking whips and shit anymore. As much as I love Harrison Ford, his adventuring days are over those kind of adventuring days are over and at one point I actually did spoiler.
Speaker 2:When they do go back in time. I actually thought he was going to stay there, yeah, and I thought I was like that would be an awesome end for Indiana Jones.
Speaker 1:Yeah to finish his life back in time. See, I thought what he did was better.
Speaker 2:I don't like that it was getting knocked out. I didn't like that it was involuntary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I liked that he went back. I wish he did it off his own accord, but I liked that he went back by a lot of people because on our threads we've got heaps and heaps of people that interacted with us on the the Indiana Jones posts that we put up on threads and you know we put up one and we always put up a poster of the movie and we say you know how good was this movie and you're free to respond how you want to. So we had heaps and heaps of people that come in. We had a flex. Luther 96 official said said I like it overall but the spoiler alert time travelling aspect was a bit wonky in my opinion. It honestly bloats the run time of the movie. That otherwise clips pretty well and in my opinion they could have ended on a cliffhanger of maybe Mickelson's character successfully retrieving the artefact if they wanted to set up the next film, next film yeah, of what?
Speaker 2:Indiana Jones rolling around in a wheelchair with like an oxygen tank stuck to his side like.
Speaker 1:Indiana Jones is done unless they recast and start again Indiana.
Speaker 1:Jones is done. Mojo Shivers said not as good as the original trilogy, which I'd put in the sort of 8 or 9 range, except for Temple of Doom. But I'd give Skull and Dial a solid seven. I'm not down on the last two films, like others are, so Mojo Shivers kind of likes them.
Speaker 1:The Infinity Bros said it's surprisingly not bad, a good comeback from the Crystal Skull. Wesley Lee Richard said it's not good at all. I literally wrote two words it's not Because we wrote how good is this movie. It's not because we wrote how good is this movie. It's not, it's not. So yeah, wesley richard, um, and then we have them is. Anthrope runner said terrible. It's terrible.
Speaker 1:So that mixed reviews all the way through on our threads. Geeking out with ethan that says geeking out with ethan said a remarkable end to an Indiana Jones film series. And Starbat28 says I don't like it at all. So definitely some polarizing reviews on the Indiana Jones franchise. We even put a post up that said how would you rate this character as a cultural icon, old school adventurer or overrated and outdated hero? And there was a picture of Indiana Jones up there. And Anthony Guyon said goes around the world taking historical artifacts and says they belong in a museum and the world doesn't bat an eyelid. But I can tell you now, if he was British, everyone would be saying oh, here we go again, the British stealing all our history and heritage.
Speaker 1:Thanks.
Speaker 2:Anthony, that gave us a laugh, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:And then Simon Trickfilmer said do we ignore Crystal Skull and Wheel of like Dial of Destiny? If so, character gets 11 out of 10. So Simon Trickfilmer definitely doesn't like these two films. Stevenpenn79 said that the character's inspirational, AndyLikesFilms says 11 out of 10, one of the greatest heroes of our time, whereas, you know, laughingladelow said definitely overrated.
Speaker 1:So mixed views on the character of Indiana Jones and also on, you know, the dial of destiny, and we thank you guys for all your interactions on our threads, posts there and on our Instagram as well. Yeah, you give us so much to read and it's really awesome as a community sort of experience, cause that's what movies should be. So thanks so much for that. Guys Gave us a good laugh. That was awesome.
Speaker 1:All right, let's go to our fandom fact face-off. Okay, so this is our fandom fact face-off, where we ask one another a series of trivia questions associated with the focused movie and the host with the most collected points from the fandom fact face-off segment will shout their opposing co-host to an all-expenses-paid trip to the movies. So currently, after one week having reviewed Sonic 3, we are currently sitting at brash on two points, and me on one point myself, having lost the first fandom fact face-off adventure, and this time we are going to look at it in a little bit of a different way. So we usually do, you know, fun facts, little trivia, post questions, but this time we've prepared a series of quotes from the Indiana Jones franchise and our job as opponents is that we have to name the character, the actor or the movie it's from in order to get the points.
Speaker 1:You can do either of those three, so you don't have to get all of them, but if you get one of them, you get the point points. You can do either of those three, so you don't have to get all of them, but if you get one of them, you get the point. Yeah, okay, yeah, so we've prepared some quotes and we're going to do them in our best Indiana Jones impression. No, we're not. That belongs in a museum. No, uh, do you want to start with this one? Brash, we'll go for our fandom fact face off quotes edition.
Speaker 2:Quotes edition. All right, yeah, I'll start off. This one should be a fairly easy one. I love that. Hold on to your potatoes.
Speaker 1:Hold on to your potatoes was spoken by Short Round in Temple of Doom? It sure was. And the actor is Ki-Huei Kwan, great actor. He is a great actor. And you know what? My favorite part of Temple of Doom honestly? Oh, 100% Short Round. Yeah, you know what? My favorite part of Temple of Doom, honestly?
Speaker 2:Oh, 100% sure. Yeah, if he wasn't in that movie, it would almost be Were you watching it, because I told you it was my favorite, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, were you watching it. I was like, oh, here's the only reason why I liked it, yeah, other than that it was confusing and weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was definitely a different sort of take from what Ra.
Speaker 2:Yeah not as good as I remember it, and I'm like, oh, maybe it's because the whole time I was just like yeah, man, this show is awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's funny, you know. Funnily enough, I actually read that Steven Spielberg and George Lucas were both going through emotionally tumultuous times when they were making that. They went through divorces or something, and they said this movie was yeah, it totally showed.
Speaker 1:It kind of, yeah, they were pouring all their trauma into it, I guess, but they were kind of creatively doing it, which you know it's a good outlet. But conversely to that, quentin Tarantino actually said that this one Temple of Doom was his favorite of the Indiana Jones films, because it's like a gnarly kind of flick and it's all red and amazing in the scene, which always cringed me out. Really, I didn't really like that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, quentin Tarantino apparently loves Temple of Doom. All right, so that's a point to me. One nil so far, yeah of course he does All right. My first quote for you you lost today, kid, but that doesn't mean you have to like it. You motherfuckers that was one of mine, that's one of mine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's one of my favorites. That's correct, that's.
Speaker 1:Fedora, also known as Garth, yeah, so Fedora is the adventurer at the start Richard. Young is the actor Yep.
Speaker 2:Correct and what movie Is in the Last?
Speaker 1:Crusade. Yes, correct, and yeah, it's in the prequel scene that stars River Phoenix as young Indiana Jones. Love that sequence, a very big inspiration to me, naming my son River. And the actor in that was obviously picked because of his likeness to Harrison Ford and it's almost like a quick take for the audience because the whole time you expect that to be Indiana Jones until it's revealed that Indiana Jones is actually the kid that's coming through in this space and it teaches him a valuable lesson that you know you're lost today, kid, but that doesn't mean you have to like it. And it was obviously impactful to him because he literally shaped his whole persona off of that guy going forward.
Speaker 2:I kind of hated the fact that that's all we got.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, there was a whole young Indiana Jones series which Harrison Ford actually did some cameos on in some flash forwards.
Speaker 2:But yeah, yeah, it's hard to get a hold of now and I think it was very much in the daytime tv in terms of quality, yeah, um, but yeah, I would have loved to see in an indiana jones and I would love to see more, yeah, and I would love to see more, um, like his interactions, like him coming across fedora, more garth, more yep and and like them sort of having, because for me, garth sort of looked at Indiana Jones as like this is, this is the next generation yeah, or this is me 10 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of thing like he definitely saw some of himself in there and I would like to see them have a couple more run-ins, yeah, and like it not be like how most Indiana Jones is, like he has animosities with other people who are also trying to be treasure hunters and but generally steal things from Nazis, but like it'd be a more of a friendlier competition where they're to go head to head. They do some little trickery to try and trip each other up, but at the end of the day they're both just doing it for the fun and the love of it. And like I'd love to see something a bit more like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's definitely potential there for that kind of vein of a of a of an adventure movie, because I would have loved to see it too, cause I think that adversarial relationship between the two could have then eventuated into like an unlikely allies situation where eventuated into like an unlikely allies situation where, you know, the stakes are against both Fedora and Young Indy to the point where they kind of have to rescue each other to go about a yeah, like how they didn't rescue him from the lion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, roll credits no movies exactly but yeah, but you see how Fedora he's not like as much as like the people he hangs around with seem like they'd be bad guys. Yeah, he himself is not.
Speaker 1:He's like the best of the bad bunch. Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:He seems like he's like the bad guy with honor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know people are drawn to those kinds of characters. Obviously Indy was as well. But the thing for me is that prequel sequence it's like 13 minutes long. But we about Indiana Jones, from those 13 minutes it's incredibly written like what they can fit in there and they don't just do it in a manner that is just like telling you the things that are happening, like it shows you where he developed his fear of snakes, it shows you how he got his chin scar, it shows you everything that's another thing, though.
Speaker 2:He's because when his friend comes across a snake, he's like, ah, it's just a snake. And then, yeah, he falls into a pit of snakes, like it goes, goes through the snake caravan, falls into a pit of snakes and it's like, ah, freaks out. But anyone, even people who love snakes, would probably freak out if they inadvertently fell into a pit of snakes but at no point there.
Speaker 2:Well was I like. What is this? Because he had like in the first movie, he has a pretty significant fear of snakes yes, absolutely, he has it throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 1:you know it's first epitomized in Raiders when he finds the snake in the plane and he's literally there like what's with the snake and it was the pilot's pet. And then later on in Raiders, as he falls down into the tomb, there was the Cobra sitting there, which he was actually no more than 45 centimeters away from as they were filming that, and there was just a sheet of plexiglass between them saving him from mortal death. And Harrison Ford actually said, you know, when they were filming that there were people around the studio with anti-venom syringes just in case you know.
Speaker 2:How would that pass off in 2024?
Speaker 1:It's just crazy, but the scene was made and it was there and they got it.
Speaker 2:But I just didn't see the actual point where he would become Deathly Afraid of Snakes, like fucking with piss snakes. Yeah, that sucks, you gotta have it alright. Well, he survived, but did you die Exactly, but did you die? But like, yeah, I would have much, rather like something a little bit more traumatic. Yeah, to Skyrim it more than that, because he seemed to brush it off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, In the moment he does, doesn't he?
Speaker 2:He jumps out brushes it off, he finds a snake in his shirt. He pulls out a snake in his shirt and goes in and throws it away Like dude, you find a snake. I'd be like ripping my shirt apart. I'd be dancing around.
Speaker 1:He just like ooh, what's that? Pulls it out, goes ah and throws it In that scene we're also given in that prequel scene we're also given information about Indiana Jones and his relationship with his father. From that small interaction you can see it's extremely distant.
Speaker 1:Like his father's a complete workaholic. He comes in trying to tell him something traumatic that's happened to him and he asks him to recite an alphabet. So you can see where Indy got his intelligence from and it looks like, you know, henry Jones Sr was preparing him for the life that he would eventually lead, but that connection and that father's warmth was not there and that's all in that first 13 minutes developing the character.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it was good. Yeah, the mind thing was I don't see where the fear of snakes came from.
Speaker 1:There's a little gripe with that one for Brash.
Speaker 2:All right, let's that one for Brash. I'm going to have to try and come up with another one, but I do have this one. I don't know where to go Now.
Speaker 1:You're getting nasty, I thought you were actually talking to me then. That's a quote. That is a quote. Now you're getting nasty. That is from Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Speaker 2:It is, yes, I vaguely remember but I don't know who says it. He says it to Belok his competitor. Now you're getting nasty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very good, very good. Yeah, that villain Belok and the villain in Temple of Doom and also Last Crusade are really epitomous villains. They sort of stalwart in the franchise. But then as you get to Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and you get to Doll of Destiny even though the Doll of Destiny villain is played by Mads Mikkelsen Dr Voller, his motivations and his untimely end as well, didn't really sit well with me didn't do enough for me to actually, you know, feel like he is an imposing sort of threat in that regard whereas Belloc was always a thorny side, he was always there, always a step.
Speaker 1:Absolutely amazing villain in Belloq, but yeah, even Mads Mikkelsen couldn't really save that.
Speaker 2:And he's such a good actor too, oh absolutely.
Speaker 1:And yeah, him dying in a plane crash. It's almost as bad as having, you know, indiana Jones' son die off screen. It's pretty much the same thing. There was no. It wasn't an earned victory for the heroes over the villains, because you know it was his own folly that caused the plane to crash. But yeah, there was no. There was no arc there, but but yeah so. So that's another point for me.
Speaker 2:So it's two, two, two, two one, two, one, two, one, two, one all right, so this is my second one.
Speaker 1:Now, here we go. Excuse my accent, I'm very little, you cheat big oh, that's your round.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that would be from uh temple of doom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that happens when they were playing cards and that was actually actually the scene that Kihei Kwan received the role for. So he auditioned with that scene and Stephen and George were just like, just go and improv something. And he worked so well with Indy or Harrison Ford in that space that they gave him the role and he was actually there to help somebody else get the role or a job and they liked his energy so much that they cast him so good on him. Kihei Kwan, well done. But yeah, they had an amazing friendship on the behind the scenes from Temple of Doom, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:He taught him to swim, harrison Ford taught Kihei how to swim and they just had the best friendship. All the people that were interviewed for the behind the scenes, like the directors, and Kate Katchell that's it, kate Katchell, yeah, even she said you know, their relationship was so cute. He was like Indiana's or Harrison Ford's little protege, walking around everywhere with him. So that's to all. Now with you to bring your final quote ahead.
Speaker 2:Okay, so what? I don't know if I'm going to stump you with this one or not, but he's like one of my favourite characters. I miss waking up every morning wondering what wonderful adventure the new day will bring to us.
Speaker 1:That one is from the Dial of Destiny. I don't know his name. Is it Sala? It's Sala. Yes, that's right. Played by John Rhys Davies. Actor that played Gimli. Great actor. I really like that.
Speaker 2:He made a cameo in this last one I know, so that's why I picked a quote from him for that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think they could have closed the franchise without having some throwback characters. You know you always get Marion coming back on occasion, but having him come back, obviously after they couldn't have Sean Connery return Watching them both run is the most funniest thing.
Speaker 2:I've ever fucking seen in my life. I loved it. Did they need walking sticks? After that Were their hammies a bit sore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really liked that. They sort of filled in that backstory element by saying that Sala and his sons were brought to America during the war by Indiana Jones and Sala's kids are, all you know, infatuated with history because of all the stories that Sala has. It just kind of puts that history into perspective and I like comparing Sala's life with Indy's life and how they are when they're older Sala obviously taking the family route and Indiana Jones still one foot in the adventuring realm. His life turned out a completely different way and you can see like how they both kind of turned out. So I like that quote. That's a good quote. Well done, All right. My one, last one, so three for me, two for you. Yesterday belongs to us. Dr Jones. Oh, is this Mads? This is Mads, this is Mads Mikkelsen. Dr Vola from the Dial of Destiny it's almost one of the last lines he says as a living character before they take off on the plane to go to the temporal time rift created by the dial.
Speaker 2:So yeah, well, yeah, that's probably the only reason why I got that. I would have thought it would have been. I can't remember his name now, but from Last Crusade, the German from Last Crusade, yep, yep, I would have thought it would have been him. Until you said a bit about the past. I'm like, ah, because they go back in time.
Speaker 1:So context did it for you All right. So before we move on from our fandom factor face-off, obviously the score is now three. All so, overall, brasher, you are on five and I am on four, still in the lead. And I didn't want to leave this segment without shouting out our threads once again, because I put a post up that said what's the best Indiana Jones quote, and we had over 160 responses to this, so thank you.
Speaker 2:So much to our threads community. There were a lot of them. That belongs in a museum. Yep, that was one of them. That was actually probably the second most popular.
Speaker 1:It was that belongs in a museum. Another one was snakes. I hate snakes. That was one that came up a lot. Another one that came up a lot, which I love, is no ticket, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Belfast Roadster said no ticket. A yeah yeah. Belfast Roadster said no ticket. Yeah. A few people, including Pastor Greg Hudson, said I love you. I know, yeah, a little bit of tongue in cheek there from his other role as Harrison Ford. Jason 107305 said not everything's a lesson, sometimes you just fail. That's from Dwight, from the Office. So everybody taking their chances here to put in the quotes and you call him Dr Jones doll. That was from Gregory Bell Jr, yep, obviously from Short Round. But the most popular quote that everybody said was it's not the years, honey, it's the mileage. Yeah, and that's from the Raiders of the Lost Ark. He's obviously talking to Marion and apparently Harrison Ford ad-libbed that line.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds very Harrison Ford. Yeah, exactly, and I think it's a very good quote to remember when we're going into Dial of Destiny, because he's been through some mileage. Oh yeah, yeah, and in this instance it is the time and it's also the mileage, yeah, yeah. So thank you to our Threads community again. Guys, you were really awesome on the Indiana Jones posts, remember, if you wanted to interact with us, then Threads is the place to go. That's in the show notes below, it's at Fandom Portals.
Speaker 1:But we're going to move on now to our Real Deal segment. All right, so the Real Deal segment is where we select a set of criteria or a lens to view the movie through and we discuss elements with the intention of finding out whether it can be rated positively or negatively. Each week, the names of the positive and negative criteria will reflect a fun element of the movie, and topics can be anything from cinematography to character development, villains or the themes. So this week, brash, if we're going to rate it in a good way, we're going to call it fortune and glory, kid, okay, so it's going to be fortune and glory, and if it's bad, we're going to call it no ticket. Now, obviously they're just quotes from the Indiana Jones franchise. But again we are talking specifically about the dial of destiny when we're doing our real deal segments and our MVT segments.
Speaker 2:For today, I'm retiring Well in that case, what are we drinking? Same for the goddaughter.
Speaker 1:Dad told me you found something On a train during the war, a dial that could change the course of history. Why are you chasing the thing that drove your father crazy? Don't move. We need to get out of here.
Speaker 2:Stop Sorry, helena, dr Helena.
Speaker 1:Dr Jones, get him Big lovers of the Indiana Jones franchise. But we are in fact talking about just that installment, the very last one, the Dial of Destiny today. So let's get our first one generated. Here we go, All right. So the first thing that we have generated for our real deal segment is the plot structure. Brass, you want to?
Speaker 2:take us away with that one. Um. No, like, in the overarching aspect I do see what they were going for. I just feel that what they were going for got too waylaid by too much other stuff going on, that it made it rushed and their plot sort of just went from indiana jones getting sucked back into the life because of um, his friend's daughter, um, whose name but he's that basil, basil um. But he, and he has to get back what was taken from him, which is a running theme for indiana jones, get back what was taken from him which is a running theme for Indiana Jones. He always gets things taken from him. He always has to get them back. So everything from that period going well, going well. And then there's a whole bunch of, for me, nonsense in the middle. Yeah, that plays no real bearing on the movie itself. Like he goes and sees Helena, yeah, helena. Like she takes it and leaves Indiana to die If any of those guys was gun happy.
Speaker 2:That would be the credits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, exactly right.
Speaker 2:Matt Mads would have collected the dial destiny and went back in time and got stuck in Rome.
Speaker 1:In that scene where he sort of Helena takes off with the Antikythera and Indiana Jones is left in there with all of the goons Like he, it's almost like a rat stuck in a cage, isn't it Like he goes up the stairs, he gets stuck by the door and then he jumps onto the cases and it's almost like everyone's like no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:Don't do it. You're going to hurt yourself. Nobody's shooting him. Just stop. This is another bit of ridiculousness. I thought he's like the whole time. He's like who are you people? I honestly thought were those people looking at this guy going? Did this guy escape from an old folk?
Speaker 1:home or something. Yeah, and you know the you know? The crazy thing about that is we're talking about sort of the plot structure as well, if we're looking at how these actions sort of took place just recently. Prior to that, these people had no qualms shooting the two other older people that they saw saying no witnesses. And then finally they see, like Dr Jones down here, they don't know who he is and they don't pull any weapons on him, they don't try to shoot him, they don't do anything At the time they don't know who he is he's just another old guy so why didn't they shoot him like they did the rest?
Speaker 2:yeah, so that plot continuity, I guess, yeah and so and that and that just like pushes on the because see, that doesn't even push on the wanted aspect. Later on he gets, he looks at TV in the news reports like oh, dr Jones, henry Jones is wanted for murder of two professors, blah, blah. And the drunk guy next to him was like oh, you're him, it's him, it's him, you're him and that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the end of it yeah, they didn't push that sort of wanted element very far.
Speaker 2:It wasn't really needed, like they didn't need to kill those two professors. They just didn't need those professors at all. They could have just came in, tried to get the doll. Helena escapes, locks Indiana. There. Indiana has his senior and starts yelling at them like literally, like he's just yelling at them, like screaming at them. Who are you people?
Speaker 1:like no move who are these people we need to get out of here? Are they with you? Not an inch, ms Shaw. Ms Shaw, stop, helena, stop, sorry, helena, dr Jones, it's over. Who are you people? What do you want?
Speaker 2:Stop.
Speaker 1:Helena Shaw. She's on the roof. Find another way up, dr Jones. Dr Jones, we're not going to hurt you.
Speaker 1:I can see what you're saying there, because even that middle part of the movie it's such a drawn-out sort of caper you might say it's like a globe-hopping caper and it's almost like they're doing it to try and be a return to form to old Indiana Jones when he used to do that, when they used to travel by map everywhere and the red line followed the plane, because when he was in the country where they had the tuk-tuk chase, that followed the plane, because when he was in um, the country where they had the tuk-tuk chase, like that, that's the only action sequence they have in a very long span of time.
Speaker 1:Otherwise it's just a whole lot of people talking, but without that action sequence, because there's so long between the action sequences at the start and the end. I feel like they kind of had to have that scene. And even that scene you know the tuk-tuk chase one is is really kind of drawn out and it doesn't provide much development in terms of like character or plot, which you know I don't mind if a movie is drawn out in terms of plot, if we're learning something new about the characters, or we're learning something new about the law or the world. I don't mind that at all. But yeah, I can see what you're saying, because I also feel like, in terms of the, the plot structure, that it was almost drawn out for the sake of extending Indy's last hurrah for people, and I just don't think it landed. So for me this is going to be a no ticket.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no ticket for me as well.
Speaker 1:Like and, yeah, like, if they. Well, that's the only kind of part. I think that that ending part was quite, quite good in a return to Indiana Jones where you know they find the, the, the cave of Dionysus, and then they go in and that's when they start to, you know, scale walls and go through passages and solve clues and and, um, use the water to to displace some of the, the surface area and enter the, the secret passage, and then they find the, the tomb of Archimedes, and he's got the rest of the dial there. So that was almost classic Indiana Jones for me, but to get there was just such a pull.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's such a chore that there gets that point where I was just like, oh, now they're doing it and they're like eh, zoned out.
Speaker 1:And then for me straight afterwards, when they were taking off in the plane to go to the. You know, the time warp area, like that whole time warp sequence to me was just completely unnecessary in terms of going back in time. I didn't know another. Well, you have a history of thinking that kids in stories are completely useless, except for one uh, outlying occasion in the nice guys. So what did you think of the, the kid in this one who yeah the kid in this one was teddy.
Speaker 2:It was almost like um helena he was meant to be short round helena's offside, just wasn't and you know what?
Speaker 1:they met the exact same way. So I think that was like a throwback sort of nostalgia and almost like if they're going to pass the torch, it's going to be those two that's going to be in the running to be the next Indiana Jones. It's dead, Stop shooting it. Yeah, I think that the plot structure for this one definitely a no ticket. It's extended, it's drawn out A lot of it's unnecessary.
Speaker 2:And you should have stayed back in time. His son was dead, his wife is gone. He doesn't have a job anymore. Just let him live in peace and roam.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and see, as we talked about before, I think he should have come back. But you know Helene is taking all his agency and making forcing him to come back. Forcing him to come back is just not the way. I'd like to see that character grow because it kind of takes all the agency off of him. He's put into a situation where he doesn't choose to be where he is Having him back in time, living amongst history for Indiana Jones.
Speaker 2:I think that would have been a good way to go out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know a lot of people on our threads agree with you there. For me, the reason I say that I think it's good that he went back and I wish that he did it off his own regard is kind of what I want to touch on in the MVTs is where he ages to a point and ages gracefully where he starts to realize what is important. With this being a no ticket, let's move on to our next. All right, so the next thing that we're going to talk about for the generator is the CGI and the special effects, so I'll start with this one. The CGI took a massive hit critically in terms of its use of de-aging technology. Perhaps there's got to be a smile on his face for this one.
Speaker 1:The de-aging technology that they used. The studio that did it was called Industrial Light and Magic and they sort of CGI'd Harrison Ford to make it look like he was in 1944, so de-aging him around 40 years. And the way that they did that was they they took archival footage, combined it with advanced CGI techniques, they mapped his face with dots and he was actually physically performing the scenes on the train and throughout the, the car and things like that. But the thing with me was he was a de-aged Harrison Ford but you could tell that he was still moving like an elderly man and his voice was still a gruff Harrison Ford's gruff voice. Not only that, but in certain lights and in certain ways the camera shifted. It still almost looked like a video game.
Speaker 1:It's called Uncanny Valley is what the phenomenon is called and and yeah, it just kind of didn't strike for me. It's definitely a no ticket for me in this regard and I mean there's pros to using that as a cgi element where you know you can that that sort of continuity of using the same character. And it's not like they can do what they did in the last crusade, where they can cast a younger actor to play Indiana Jones because it was Harrison Ford.
Speaker 2:It was Harrison Ford back then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this was the best way they could do it. The train sequence at the start, though I did like that. Yeah, like, despite the fact that the CGI looked a little funny, I did like that scene.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I reckon the scene was good. My question is because 2023. 2023. Oh, it's Two years ago, so, yeah, early 25. Yeah, so 2023. When did the Mandalorian come out, specifically season two?
Speaker 1:I think it would have been a very similar year, if not the one before 2022. Cool.
Speaker 2:Get that kid. Who did the Luke Skywalker?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was good. That de-aging was pretty good, I think for me that was fine because they actually had a younger actor playing Luke Skywalker and they put Mark Hamill's face on him. Yeah, it was really good, see, but for me it was almost like the physical performance and the voice that really detracted from the look of Harrison Ford. It was like he in one instance he looks young but he's acting old.
Speaker 2:That's what I mean, like they could have got a younger actor and did the same thing. They did the same look, just an actor that's sort of a similar body shape, have him run the gauntlet and then just put.
Speaker 1:Harrison Ford's face on there with a voiceover, yep, yeah, I think that would have worked. That would have worked. You know what, pardon me, I'm. He has suffered quite a few injuries from playing Indiana Jones and I think, yeah, he wanted to play this character to its last breath, yeah, which he definitely did. Shit, yeah. And you know what?
Speaker 1:Another thing with the CGI this movie had more CGI in it than any other Indiana Jones film, like the initial first half an hour of the train sequence and then the time warping sequence when he goes back to Syracuse during the, the siege of syracuse.
Speaker 1:Both heavy, heavy, heavy uses of cgi. And to me it kind of looked a little bit unnatural in terms of how an indiana jones film should look, because traditionally they had a very big, uh, practical effects department, so all of their sets were usually built to the point where in indiana jones in the Last Crusade yeah, the moving floor is part of the Last Crusade was actually, you know, constructed and put onto hydraulics and things like that and it looks more authentic. And I watched it recently and it kind of still holds up to this day. But because the CGI is so over the top, it was almost like they wanted to show how advanced that CGI could be. It just doesn't really fit for me and I think you know, using the CGI for the de-aging it's impressive but it kind of struggles to recapture that natural charisma that Harrison Ford had as an actor going forward. So for me, although it's impressive in some scenes, the de-aging didn't click. For me it's a no ticket.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm in my vein, Like if they had used a young person and like, did the Luke Skywalker thing? I reckon I probably would have gave it what's a good. I think most of ours is going to be bad, but yeah, it's Fortune and Glory, fortune and Glory, fortune and Glory. Kid, that's right. Yeah, I think this is a no ticket yeah, but yeah, for the CGI, no ticket.
Speaker 1:Both ways around, let's get our next one, all right. So our next one that's come up is character chemistry Brash, take us away.
Speaker 2:Tell us your next no ticket, yeah, no, no-transcript and Mason.
Speaker 1:Everyone else was just like eh yeah, two characters that you know met their untimely end by the end of the film.
Speaker 2:But agents of Well, cable caused Mason's end. She was really good, super good. I loved her.
Speaker 1:Because it's Mason, isn't it? Mason, yeah, mason, yeah, yeah Mason. Who's played by Seanette Renee Wilson and Claiborne, played by Boyd Holbrook who you know from Black Panther, yep, yeah, she was phenomenal. I loved her she was my favorite character in it. Yeah, she was no nonsense, which I think is what you would have liked in this movie full of nonsense. She was no nonsense.
Speaker 2:But the thing is she worked for the government, like the CIA, CIA.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:CIA. But like she wasn't there inadvertently working for Nazis, but um, for a bit, Until she Accidentally worked for Nazis, Accidentally worked for Nazis. But like her and Kubler had sort of like this rapport with each other, yeah, like they were giving each other shit and they were like, yeah, but we're both handspring, so we get other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they were giving each other shit and they were like, yeah, but we're both handspring, so we get it. Yeah, yeah, we both have somebody to answer to. Yeah, you know what? I think their character chemistry was good together. And Mads Mikkelsen's character, dr Voller, he was good in moments for me and it was nuanced moments. It was moments that if you were watching it, it's like, ah, that doesn't really matter. But I liked how, even years and years after the war, when he's getting people to bring him dinner and he's sort of you know, eating his food, he's still talking down to the people in America about the way that the war ended.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to use this as a quote, but I thought it would be too easy. The quote where he's like we didn't lose Germany, didn't lose the war Hitler.
Speaker 1:Hitler lost the war. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh no, you didn't win the war, sorry, hitler lost it yeah, that was. He has great lines like that and he has awesome sort of sinister moments that show him to be like a real asshole kind of character. Yeah, but he just he's underdeveloped the whole way through.
Speaker 2:Oh, I understand and like and like he would. His interactions with the other characters is good, but because he's so distant to them, there is no real connection between him and other characters and Harrison Ford's character and Helena.
Speaker 1:Their interactions together was almost adversarial and a little bit annoying.
Speaker 2:If I'm honest, yeah, and like he's meant to be her godparent, godfather, and the first time we ever meet Basil. They escaped Germany together one time, and apparently they had a whole bunch of other stories yeah, and then we see him in flashbacks after that where he's studying the Anticoathera.
Speaker 1:That's the thing with Indiana Jones there's no, there's no, there's flashbacks.
Speaker 2:There's no flashbacks, like when Indiana Jones is like I've got to take it and destroy it, and then he never does, because it belongs in a museum but like that's the only other flashback, you go oh okay, cool, this thing's making him crazy and his daughter's just sitting on the stairs watching the whole interaction and then Indiana takes it and leaves.
Speaker 2:That's, that's the end of that, yeah and it's like ah okay, I haven't seen, she hasn't. He hasn't seen her since, so when's the last time he saw Basil, was it then? Shit, they're great friends, aren't they?
Speaker 1:yeah, you don't know. And really the hero and the villain should interact in a manner that causes conflict and a manner that sort of heightens the story. But Indiana Jones dealing with Dr Vola like when he's shot. When Indiana Jones is shot and then, just you know, a sudden change of heart from Dr Vola. He says you know, instead of leaving him in the tomb of Archimedes to die, dr Vola says bring him. Why? I don't know, because he's Indiana Jones and his name's on the movie poster otherwise Harrison.
Speaker 1:Ford's character is kind of useless in that moment and it's not something Dr Voller would really do, because you know he's a heartless Nazi and Harrison Ford has been a thorn in his side the whole way, like why would he bring him along? I know it's like an inspirational thing that he's right, but you know at what point do you go. Having him around could be a very thornful moment in my side. Shoot him dead, problem over. So I think I think that's a common theme in this, this movie, where there are a lot of times where Indiana Jones isn't necessary yeah, but also, I think it's also the how they portray Nazis in Indiana Jones showboats.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in Indiana Jones showboaters yeah, they're all showboaters. Yeah, that's true. So him bringing along Indy is just following that trope that Indiana Jones movies has, where the Nazis are showboaters, where they want especially someone who's being a thorn in their side, they want to rub in their faces their moment of victory. Yep, and in every case it backfires.
Speaker 1:It does, and in this case, no different yeah, well, that's the same as in raiders of the lost ark. There is a notorious argument that goes around that says, like from the moment where indiana jones finds out the location of the temple whether the ark is located he's basically a passive character, he's useless, he's watching the events that the nazis are doing while they're unfolding, he's tied to that post while the ark just kills everybody around. And you know, if that was me as a character, having told these Nazi characters to watch out for this arc, and then suddenly they open it all their faces, melt off from the ghost, like Harrison Ford plays it very stoically and seriously, but I would be laughing. It's just, you know, it's a moment of. I told you so, but I think you're right with that showboatingness of the when would they know to open their eyes again, though?
Speaker 2:Well, that's when the screaming stops.
Speaker 1:Just yeah, period period stop. Ask the person with you to open their eyes first. If their face melts, you need to wait a few minutes.
Speaker 2:Hey, just open your eyes so we can just check to see if we're all good.
Speaker 1:No, I think like obviously sounds like a no ticket for you. It's a no ticket for me as well. Far three for three no tickets. Um, all right, let's get our next one. Can this one do it?
Speaker 2:what are three for three? No tickets. Can the fourth one be a? Uh, yeah, well, we'll have to wait and see.
Speaker 1:All right. So the next one that we've got is the sounds, soundtrack and sound design and score. So you know what, for me, the score from john williams is? It's musical genius, because I want you to name somebody that if you hummed the Indiana Jones tune, they wouldn't know um, to the point where you know this is the fifth time that the, the film has has come in.
Speaker 1:He he made this in 1981 still holds up extremely recognizable. Uh, it's synonymous with heroism. The, the Raiders March is what it's called, and in this movie it's kind of used sparingly and I feel like that's done really, really well, because Indiana Jones isn't that robust hero that he was before and if you remember, in previous movies, whenever the Raiders March would play, it'd be when he's running and escaping for his life or he's doing something daring and heroic, and in this movie he doesn't really do anything like that. So they use it sparingly to show that he's not the man that he used to be. He's. He's aging to a point where the raiders march and the indiana jones that you know is in there a little bit. You can see like moments of it, but a lot of the time he is being pushed around by goons instead of him fighting his way back from them. Uh, which is another thing I notice, indiana jones is very much a captured character instead of a one that pushes forward and gets it out.
Speaker 2:I do like the fact that he does still beat the shit out of Keebler all the time. Yeah, yeah, claibor. Yeah, yeah, he just all the time. Just king hits him. Yeah, speaking of king hits as well.
Speaker 1:What the hell you know how Indiana Jones goes into the and he says I think I recognize you. The only time he saw Dr Vola was when he put his hat in front of his head, punched him in the face and watched him fall to the ground. It's the only time they met prior to that. But he recognizes him and sees him, you know, in his senile old age. But I digress With the soundtrack. You know John Williams sort of mixes the old nostalgia of Indiana Jones and the soundtrack vibes with. You know, new themes, like Helena's theme, which you can see he's sort of playing with a little bit more mischievously because there's that staccato in there as well, and then the Dahl's theme. That sort of punctuates with this kind of mystery and that sort of blend is really good I think. I think the action driven sequences are well done because they use the action, the scene of the action. In terms of the soundtrack. They quicken the pace of the music to symbolize hey, something is going on here.
Speaker 2:That you're heart-racing, which is a classic. Yeah, yeah, technique, technique that he uses Like he can do no wrong when it comes to soundtracks, I believe. I think so, yeah. And music for movies, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, yeah. I think the sound design is good too, because in the tuk-tuk scene, for example, every time something would crash it would be punctuated by a mark of percussion like a drum or a cymbal or something like that. Whenever it's flashing to a moment of peace or solitude, with Indiana Jones you can hear a clock ticking in the background and that theme of time and aging and the progression of time is rife throughout. So I think he's cleverly using sound design. I don't think it's enough to save the movie, but I think for this one it's definitely a fortune and glory kid for me.
Speaker 1:I liked the soundtrack, I like how it was. That mix of nostalgia and the new and, as you said, john Williams classic can't really do any wrong in that moment. He knows when to make it thematically emotional and he knows when to use silence in a really poignant way. Uh, most notably during the scene when he reunites with marion at the end. Literally no music there, it's just two characters, old people in a kitchen with dialogue. Oh, funny. And then yeah, I, I, yeah, I just think that the music in Indiana Jones. I can't rightfully give it a no ticket because Mainly because he does master his craft.
Speaker 2:He has a master his craft, yep, but also the fact and the way they use it sparingly is all great and everything like that. But that also takes away from, like, your classic nostalgic feel of Indiana Jones, because it was always those moments that were the best, when, like running from the boulder doing all the train hopping, it would actually like elevate you as a person physically when you heard that and because he's so old.
Speaker 1:I think they could have used him more in the train sequence at the start when he was young. Yeah, they should have used it like they should have went deep with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Exactly. But yeah, no Little lackluster, still better. So probably Fortune, no glory.
Speaker 1:Fortune, yeah, fortune, with a little bit of glory. Yeah, fortune, no glory. Half a ticket, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, fair enough. So I think overall, we're not fans of this movie, brash, all right. So that's going to make it hard for us to do our MVTs, all right.
Speaker 1:So our MVT segment is where we discuss the most important thing we learned from the media that we have watched, and it could be something that extends our knowledge, or it could be something as simple as a piece of dialogue that stuck with us, or a thematic or moral lesson, a technical piece of similar craft that we want to discuss.
Speaker 1:So do you want me to go first brush? Yeah, so my N V T most valuable takeaway for this week comes in the form of what we've been talking about this whole time. Indiana Jones is, in fact, aging. It happens to all of us, and I think this movie sort of looks at it through a lens of him trying to reframe his identity and reframe his self-worth. So if you remember in Raiders of the Lost Ark, when he was teaching a class, the whole of his student body was just absolutely enamored by him, to the point where one of the girls had I love you written across her eyelids, and most of the class were women yeah juxtapose that with the scene in dial of destiny, where it's a darkened room, there's kids in the amphitheater that are paying zero attention, you can hear the sound of somebody's gum pop.
Speaker 1:Uh, he's going through slides of something that he's obviously passionate about. He's. He's talking and teaching in a manner that shows that he's passionate in his older age, which is the first time you see it in this movie, because prior to you see him just like lamenting and drinking at 7 am in the morning and that passion that he has no longer mimicked by the people he's teaching. So when he's passionate about something, you can see that that's like a shift from what he's used to experiencing to the point where the new heroes come in, as it's being 1969, the moon landing's happening, he goes and he is the grumpy old man with the baseball bat on the door basically. So he's aging disgracefully and I think this movie shows his, or tries to show his shift from that external validation to internal fulfillment. I think they tried to do that with Indiana Jones, to show that he now no longer wants the accolades and the fortune and glory and now he wants more hugs in the kitchen with his wife, which is that internal fulfillment through the relationships that you have throughout.
Speaker 1:Because one of the saddest things that I thought when I first watched this movie because I always wondered watching Indiana Jones as a kid I was like how's this guy going to look when he's older? Like what's going to be his happy ending? What's going to be his happy ending? Like how he's got to have a happy ending because he's doing all this good, he's saving all these people, he's making all these connections along the way. But one thing that the indiana jones movies does indiana jones has a lot of friends that he can call on for favors, but he doesn't have a lot of friends that he can call on in moments of solitude and for company to keep. Um, and I liked at the end of this movie how he he did sort of come back and he's surrounded by those people again, with sala helena, his wife Marion, they reconnect.
Speaker 2:It looks bad, does it hurt? Everything hurts. I know how that feels.
Speaker 1:Well, where doesn't matter and I really wish that this movie did a better job of pushing for that internal fulfillment because, you know, being able to highlight his legacy and move forward with dignity in terms of valuing through all of his treasure hunting and finding the riches on the planet and all the mysteries of the universe. It would have been nice if they sort of circled it back to Indiana Jones finding that the greatest treasure that you can have is the relationships that you have with people, and you know he did reconcile with Marion at the end, but it didn't really hit the mark with that. But that's sort of what I thought they were trying to do for their most valuable takeaway for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause it was kind of abrupt Like the ending of like Marion rocking up, tyler being there. It was just, it was just, they were just all there. Yeah, no sort of explanation, no sort of like real.
Speaker 1:It was abrupt because he was punched out and then basically woke up and there's people there and it's like and then the movie ends, it's like oh okay yeah, like, and that's why I wanted him to come back.
Speaker 1:But then I think him discovering that by himself would have been the character's journey in the character's arc. Yeah, but because he was punched out and dragged back. But I think he is a character, as indiana jones is the character. He doesn't go through that stage where he's looking at external validation and learning about history and seeking the treasures and the knowledge for himself is less valuable than the internal fulfillment of the relationships he has with others. He doesn't go through that growth.
Speaker 2:I also don't think that it was enough Like people, three people His goddaughter, who I hadn't seen in 20 years, yep. His wife Marion, who was divorcing him, and Tyler, who's always sort of been around and is probably his closest thing to a best friend.
Speaker 1:Just about Yep. Well, that's what I mean as well, like he always has friends that he can call on for a favour, but in terms of close relationships he doesn't really have any, which means the end of this film is kind of unfulfilling.
Speaker 2:And Tyler is the closest because Tyler's almost been in. Well, he's of five. Sorry yeah, crystal Skull does exist, does it? Yeah, yeah, so but like I was like bringing Short Round.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I was actually expecting that, to be honest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like if this is going to be the final Indiana Jones, bring back at least people who like Bring back the goat Technically they're still alive Yep, friends of his are still alive To come out in the end and give him a. No, we're here for you, man. Yeah, you may not be able to do the things you used to be able to do, but-.
Speaker 1:You know what? We can sit and reminisce and I even think in that moment it might I could have done without the whole group of people if his reuniting with marion was more emotionally yeah, deep, and that's I think it wasn't like she walked through the door and he's like marion and hugged marion yeah, and he's like yeah, but yeah yeah, oh yeah, fully understand, fully understand, yeah, I just think he should have, as a character, gone through some redefining of success.
Speaker 1:But for me, that's the takeaway that I got, because I think they were attempting to do that. It just was not executed well, in my opinion, yeah no, um, my.
Speaker 2:My takeaway is um, well, actually not too far off. Yeah, as a like a life lesson sort of thing, like know your limits and know when you're done. Indiana jones was done at crystal skull. Yeah, like house of board, if you see him in shrinking the tv show he has.
Speaker 1:I haven't. I've seen clips, and I saw one clip where he, like he, stands up in front of all his friends and talks about how amazing-.
Speaker 2:I haven't seen that yet. Okay, I haven't seen that part yet, I haven't loved it, but I have saw a snippet of that as well. I'm like ooh.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to watch that that's going to be so good. It's beautiful man. The emotional depth of that character and that presence is amazing.
Speaker 2:And he was really good in that and in that. He's an older guy who runs a Shrink company and yeah, he's really good and like, yeah, he's just a phenomenal, phenomenal in that show as a globetrotting artifact finder hunter at what the hell is he now?
Speaker 1:He's in his 80s.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No no, no, like if my granddad was, like if he was still alive and he was running around chasing things at 80, I'd be like dude.
Speaker 1:no, that's because your grandfather has a family in Indiana Jones, doesn't he?
Speaker 2:No, no, no. To be fair, though, my granddad was active all the way up until cancer got him, and that was when he was in his eighties. He was still active, he was still rollerblading. Yeah, good on him, I know He'd rollerblade, but then, because he's so old, he'd fall over and cut his knee or some shit and just would not stop bleeding. And you're like dude, no limits, yeah.
Speaker 2:You can't do this shit anymore you need to and like but like good on him for, like he always, he was always helpful. He'd go off and mow the yards of everyone in the neighbourhood if he could, not for money or anything like that, he'd just do it because their grass looks like it needs to be cut and he just likes doing stuff. My grandad was always outside, always doing things all the way up until the day he died Absolutely fantastic man, one of my heroes. But seeing him, anytime he'd try and do something that he physically can't do anymore and then get hurt. It's like mate okay now you need a-.
Speaker 1:And I think you do need that reminder as well, because mentally you might not feel your age, but I think Indiana Jones, having retired from adventuring and then being brought back by Helena's character, there is a scene in the movie where they address that, because he's climbing up and scaling a rock wall and he says I don't know why I'm up here, two shattered knees busted. Two shattered knees, busted shoulders and dislocated vertebrae and all that kind of stuff. And you know the audience agrees with him because he's been struggling the whole movie. Yeah and yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that it's definitely the last installment of Indiana Jones in its current iteration and if they were going to try and do some sort of passing of the torch, it should have been Indiana Jones as sort of the back character helping the new blood. Mm-hmm Yep Departing his wisdom saying like the guide on the side Exactly yes, yes, Sort of like-.
Speaker 1:Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, sort of like Obi-Wan Kenobi, or even as Uncle Iroh, uncle Iroh, no, his father, yeah, yeah, yeah, henry Sr, henry Senior, henry Senior, his role, his role in the thing was-.
Speaker 1:That's a perfect example, actually, because in that movie, the Last Crusade, henry Jones was definitely the guide. He was acting his age, he wasn't going off adventuring, and Indiana Jones was the young, robust character that was doing all the physicality, stunts and work.
Speaker 2:And he was one pointing out when Indy was like well, pointing out things, indy, that he sort of didn't catch intellectually yeah and that's something that, and then like I feel like they tried to do that in Crystal Skull with Mutt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he was a lot of the action sequences. You could see him jumping between cars and sword fighting with people. Yeah, he was definitely the action in that sort of environment. But I think you know the controversy around Shia LaBeouf just kind of stopped that but they could have recast as well.
Speaker 2:You know, they didn't have to kill him on screen, yeah, and like honestly Crystal Skull. I actually honestly think I like Crystal Skull more than I like Destiny. I definitely don't, but Crystal Skull. I think they tried to take it to too much of a weird place.
Speaker 1:I actually mentioned that on threads, I said, because my review of it said that it's a step away from the more grounded nature of Indiana Jones from the past. And then people Aliens, yeah eviscerated me in the comments and they were like oh yeah, like aliens and ghosts escaping from the Ark is definitely grounded, like that kind of thing as well. We welcome all feedback, by the way, guys, that was funny.
Speaker 2:That was my biggest gripe rewatching Indiana Jones in general, like all the Like, because I completely forgot about the Ark and the ghosts and everything I rewatched. I was like that's right, I and they don't tell everyone to watch it, it's like that's right. I forgot about the ghosts that come out and fucking.
Speaker 1:They're literally all grounded in myth. And what if this is real until the very last ending chapter? And then it's like it is real? Wait, is there a supernatural element that's gonna absolutely stuff up your day?
Speaker 2:and he says oh, I've seen things that make me believe. Yeah, but like I kind of wish that either. Let's see, like in the scene of this shit, why isn't like? Why isn't there more common knowledge in the world? That's true, that, like these things exist. There is a cup that if you drink from the wrong cup, you will turn to dust. If you drink from the right cup, you will get younger, but you can't take that cup from the cave. Open up a cask and the ghost come out and melt your face. Like if it had been more based in science, yeah, or history yeah.
Speaker 2:But like some sort of mechanism.
Speaker 1:I understand what you mean, so I've forgotten what movie it is. I think it's maybe the Mummy remake or something, or maybe it was an episode of a TV show I watched, but the Mummy's curse was actually like a bunch of bacteria and pesticides that was inside the tomb because of the decomposition of the mummy, and as it came out and infected people, they went crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that kind of realism, yeah, a little bit more realism instead of or lean into the fact that there's mysterious things in this world that can't really be explained by science. And lean a bit more into that because it's facts, fact finding, um, using intellect to locate these objects and everything that, and at the very last moment, bam, supernatural ghosts, yeah, aliens. It's like pick a lane yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:That's a good comment too. Yeah, I like that. Um, you know, I think for your, for your most valuable takeaway in terms of you know, knowing when the story is told, yeah, is important, and I think that's good too, because you know those first three movies, without having a fourth or a fifth sequel, inspired so much more, like media, like I don't think that the mummy with brendan fraser one and two, the third one doesn't exist, would exist without Indiana Jones. The Uncharted game series with Nathan Drake wouldn't be as popular. There's a new Indiana Jones game out which I'm very keen to play because it looks like a throwback to the nostalgic elements of Indiana Jones and you get to play as Indiana Jones when he's 30 years old again, so you can run and jump and do all the things that you need to do without your knees cracking.
Speaker 1:I Jones when he's 30 years old again, so you can run and jump and do all the things that you need to do without your knees cracking and yeah, I just think that, yeah, I respect this franchise. I do love this franchise and I love the character of Indiana Jones. I understand what Harrison Ford was wanting to do to revisit this character when he wasn't able to do the things that he wanted to do. But, like for people looking back at Indiana Jones and seeing them as like that's the hero, the action adventure guy, it's very sad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's probably like the biggest thing for me is, I watched the Dial of Destiny and remember like just watching just recently, watching all the rest of the old ones and seeing him at that age trying to do the things he used to do and not doing it well, sort of. Yeah, it makes me like sad, like and just watching I'm like you already cemented your legacy as indiana jones. All they're doing now is trying to make money and they're ruining what the vision of indiana jones is. Yeah, they're feeding off people's nostalgia. They're trying to make money and all they've done now is made people not like Indiana Jones, or at least the later iteration of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, alright, that's actually a really good sort of segue topic into our last segment. Alright, so with this last segment, we're going to do two things. In this last segment, we usually do a devil's avocado, and the question for your devil's avocado this week, mr Brasher, is they were thinking of recasting Indiana Jones Just off the top of your head. Who do you think would have been a good recasting for Indiana Jones back, when they were thinking about doing it in 2015 and 2016?
Speaker 2:Ooh, back in 2016 and 15 though, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Back when Crystal Skull was first rumored, everybody thought that they were going to recast Indiana Jones due to Harrison Ford's age. Later it was revealed that he was going to continue to play Indiana Jones, and then everybody moved their shift and focus to think okay, well, this is going to be a story of him getting older instead of a retelling of his adventurous days.
Speaker 2:Trying to think of who would have been good back in 2015, 16.
Speaker 1:Literally probably the biggest action star. I don't know who that is. They were in everything. They were in Jurassic World, oh, they were in, really, the Super Mario Brothers, oh, chris Pratt, eh yeah, they were going to think of Chris Pratt and the other person in contention.
Speaker 2:I mean, I see, it because of his character from Jurassic World, but then also the same vein, unless he was, I don't know. I think he's too built for it. You need I reckon you need someone to do more with.
Speaker 1:Here's the other character. The other person that they wanted to do was Bradley Cooper. I see that. I think that would have worked. I see that. And Bradley Cooper's a very talented actor. He can play rugged and he can play action. He has done action. He has done action before and, yeah, I think he and smart roles, smart roles. He's very well suited. But, that being said, my devil's avocado question for you is would you accept a recast of Indiana Jones?
Speaker 2:Probably. I reckon I would More so because you fucking traitor, the main Indiana Jones are back in the 80s.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, that's when they were made. Obviously, the story is in the 30s.
Speaker 2:The moves themselves were made in the 80s. If we're talking 2016, that's over 20 years difference. To think and this is just me just being a rational person to think a person who played a 25, 30 year old person back in the 80s to then come back and play this action hero 20 what something years later-what-something years later 36 years later 36 years later is beyond ridiculous.
Speaker 2:There's no way, say, if these movies were wanting to get remade late 90s, early 2000s, hell, no, keep Harris in thought. He's still youngish enough to maybe get by 36 years later when you're already. You're already what? 30? Nah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what man I even think after the Crystal Skull, the age he was at there was okay and fine, and even the ending there where he got married to Marion he was there with his son was okay and fine. And even the ending there where he got married to Marion, he was there with his son, that was almost like the happy ending I wanted. It was a pity that that wasn't attached to a better movie, because that ending was awesome for me in terms of the character's full arc, for me in this devil's avocado question. I don't want to see Harrison Ford recast as Indiana Jones, but that does not with Harrison Ford in it. I think that it should just be left as a franchise that existed in this period of time, almost like the Back to the Future movies will be.
Speaker 1:I don't think anybody is going to recreate those movies and they're not going to cast Marty McFly as what's his name, michael J Fox, yeah, and he's obviously suffering from Parkinson's disease, so they can't. But I think that for me it's okay to let nostalgia be nostalgia and I really would love for them to just leave Indiana Jones alone. Yeah, for me. Yeah, bring him out in lots of different games. That's a good one for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent, that'd be great.
Speaker 1:Is it Nolan North that voices him? I hope so, or Troy Baker?
Speaker 2:I think it's one of the two or it would be a fantastic option. Troy Baker is excellent. Troy Baker does the voice of Joel from Last of Us yep yeah and Troy Baker is a phenomenal voice actor absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, indiana Jones and the Great Circle is the newest video game. It's getting amazing reviews. It's got a 9.1 currently out of 10 and Troy Baker is the voice of Indiana Jones. Troy Baker is absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Voice of Joel absolutely great and he can do that. He can do that rugged voice and you can tell it from Joel from Last of Us game yeah, I understand.
Speaker 2:And like this is going off of back in 2016, like I wouldn't want them to recast Indiana Jones now, but back in 2016, when they could have got someone who looked similar to Harrison Ford, who was maybe just a little bit older than Harrison Ford was when he did originally the Indiana Jones, just to do the sort of conclusion. I mean, like I wouldn't necessarily like it but I'd probably still watch it.
Speaker 1:Yep, just so. The character has a fulfilling load. Exactly Just so they have an ending.
Speaker 2:However, if they were to do a TV show, like they tried to do with the younger Indiana Jones, hell yes, Yep, hell yes. Bring that on, I'd love to watch that.
Speaker 1:I think so too, that would.
Speaker 2:I would watch that it's a shame River Phoenix didn't get to continue. Continue and do that like a chance to do that with um fedora, as we're saying earlier, like that would have been amazing, absolutely amazing. So, yeah, um, recasting any in a new, younger version, like him first starting out, maybe before he becomes a professor, all that kind of stuff, that would have been great. Uh, that'd be great if they had to recast him back in 2016, 15. I wouldn't mind it if it was a conclusion to end it. Yeah, unfortunately, harrison Ford as much as he is a brilliant actor and as much as everyone should watch him in Shrinking, he's fucking so good at that. Yeah, it was just too much, too much. And yeah, he's just too old for the role.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, too much, too much, and yeah, it's just too awful. Yeah, okay, so currently our honor board has a few different movies on it. Now, at the moment I am thinking this is definitely not first for me. I'd be shocked if it was Currently in last place. At the moment we have Red One and then before Red One we have Venom the Last Dance. So for me it's kind of positioned either before Venom the Last Dance or after Venom the Last Dance. Yeah, what's your thoughts? The end, the last? Oh, 100%, really Worse than Red 1? Yes, okay. So I guess I would rather watch Red 1.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, well, maybe because of JK Simmons. Yep, yeah, he's a funny guy. Jk Simmons is like, and Chris, I didn't. But yes, no, no, this is a movie that did not need to be made.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's put it out to our socials. It'll be on threads and it'll be on Instagram. Do you think that Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny is better or worse than Red One? And you guys will be the final nail in the coffin of the dial, or you'll be promoting it to second last status in our fandom portals on a board. All right, so let's go to our sign-offs.
Speaker 1:Okay, everybody, our Instagram and our threads is the best place where you can find us and interact with us. Those are in the show notes below. We are at fandom portals pretty much everywhere.
Speaker 1:If you've got something more of a long form kind of question to ask us whether it be a movie recommendation or whether it be your most valuable takeaway from a movie that we talk about, then you can definitely reach out to us on our email, which is fandom portals at gmailcom. Uh, we don't always ask for this, but if you are so inclined, please feel free to go to any of the places where you have a like your podcast, where you get your podcast, whether it be Spotify or Apple, and write an honest review for us All. Our feedback is read and it helps very much and give us a star rating on Spotify as well, if you don't have as much time. So we want to thank you guys for always tuning in and thank our Threads community for always engaging in our Instagram community as well. It's a growing space and it's becoming really, really awesome to hear and talk to you guys on that space as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Just like I say no limits. 80 is too old to be Indiana Jones.
Speaker 1:And that's the final word that you hear from Brash. This is Aaron signing out from the Phantom Portals. Thank you very much, guys. Thanks guys. See you later.
