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The Fandom Portals Podcast
"Welcome to Fandom Portals—the show that explores how your favourite fandoms can help you learn and grow!" 🎙️✨
Each episode, we explore TV, movies, comics, and games to reveal how these worlds and the characters in them help us learn about resilience, courage, friendship, and more.
The Fandom Portals Podcast is hosted by Aaron Davies and Adam Brasher, two friends who are obsessed with fandoms, storytelling, and building a community where passion and positivity come first. From Marvel to Middle-earth, Star Wars to indie comics, we dive deep into the stories you love — and how they help us learn and grow. ✨
The Fandom Portals Podcast
DragonHeart (1996) – Part Two: The fall of King Einon and Bowen's Heroes Journey. Nostalgic Fantasy and the value of Persistence.
Episode Summary:
In this episode of The Fandom Portals Podcast, Aaron and Brash continue their deep dive into Dragonheart (1996), exploring Einon and Bowen’s character arcs, the Spoiled King vs. Hero’s Journey tropes, and how the film’s acting performances impacted its legacy.
The Reel Deal segment dissects Dragonheart’s plot structure, score, and how nostalgia affects the modern viewing experience. Plus, Aaron and Brash discuss fan mail from a listener in Virginia and take a moment to reflect on the difference between childhood nostalgia and adult rewatches.
Topics:
Popcorn Perspectives: Analyzing Bowen & Einon’s character arcs
Einon’s Role in the Spoiled King Trope
Why Einon Is One of the Most Hateable Villains
David Thewlis’ Performance as Einon – Over-the-top or just right?
Bowen’s Hero’s Journey & Character Evolution
Does Bowen Make Sense as a Hero or Antihero?
The Draco Connection & Why It Works Emotionally
How Dragonheart Balances Dark Themes & Lighthearted Moments
Reel Deal: Breaking Down Acting, Plot Structure & Score
Acting Performances – Who Stood Out the Most?
Why Sean Connery’s Voice Performance Is So Impactful
Plot Structure – Strengths & Weaknesses in Dragonheart
Is Bowen’s Arc Too Rushed?
Musical Score – Why Randy Edelman’s Soundtrack Is a Fantasy Classic
Most Valuable Takeaway: Nostalgia vs. Reality in Rewatching Films
Sign-Off & Next Episode: Gabriel (2007)
Key Takeaways:
- Einon is one of the most hateable villains in 90s fantasy films, and David Thewlis played him to perfection.
- Bowen’s hero’s journey feels rushed, making his character arc a little inconsistent.
- Sean Connery’s voice performance gives Dragonheart an emotional core that elevates the entire film.
- The score by Randy Edelman is one of the strongest elements, adding nostalgia and emotional depth.
- Nostalgia can impact how we view films years later, making Dragonheart a beloved but flawed classic.
📢 Apple Podcast tags: Dragonheart, Sean Connery, Dennis Quaid, fantasy movies, medieval films, cult classics, CGI history, motion capture, movie trivia, film history, action adventure, 90s movies, visual effects, geek culture, Fandom Portals Podcast, Geek Freaks Network
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Hello and welcome to the Fandom Portals podcast, the podcast that explores how fandoms can help us learn and grow. This podcast is part two of our Dragonheart Runs, episode 28, part two, and in this episode you will find out all about Aynan and Bowen and their character arcs, including the Spoilt King trope and the Hero's Journey trope. We also look in our Real Deal segment about the acting, the plot structure and also the score, to see what makes Dragonheart a memorable and nostalgic film, and in our most valuable takeaways we talk about persistence, and we also talk about the difference between a childhood viewing of nostalgia and an adult rewatch of a movie that has definitely become a cult classic. We also got some fan mail this episode that we read out, so if you are a person who would love to send us some fan mail, make sure you do so. Our email is fandomportals at gmailcom if you have a movie recommendation for us. So if you want to give us feedback, we would love to hear from you. So that email address is fandomportals at gmailcom. We hope to hear from you and we hope you enjoy this episode.
Speaker 1:Hello everybody and welcome to the Fandom Portals podcast. I'm here with Brash, as always. How you going, brash Fading stuff. I'm buying a lightsaber. He's buying a lightsaber. He's scrolling the Timu addiction plate. Guys, he's buying one of those dog vacuum heads that we were talking about last week.
Speaker 1:Guys, last time we spoke to you we were talking about Dragonheart, the 1996 now cult classic movie that is starring Dennis Quaid and Sean Connery and also Dina Mayer. It is directed by Rob Cohen and if you haven't already, definitely go and check out our part one, where we go and talk about all the CGI elements and how they brought Draco the dragon to life. So if you're curious about that, definitely go and check it out. Now, dragonheart for those of you that don't know is a movie about the last dragon and a disillusioned dragon slaying knight who must unite to stop an evil king who was granted partial immortality. In this episode we're going to be looking at some characters in the name of bowen and iron and we're going to be also looking at our real deal segment and our most valuable takeaway segment. But before we do that, guys, at the end of every single episode we always ask you to send us feedback. And you know, somebody, know somebody actually did brash. We got some feedback Feedback. Yeah, we got some Feedback. We got some fan mail, so we're going to read it out right now for you guys. And if you're a person who wants to like this absolute legend, send us some feedback, send us some fan mail, then you can do so at our email address, which is fandomportals at gmailcom. Now, this person's name is Mike and they're from Virginia, usa. Ready One, two, three, hi Mike. Hi Mike. How you going, mike, virginia USA.
Speaker 1:He writes to us and says I found your podcast in the last month or so and I have since listened to all of your episodes. I found your discussions insightful and I appreciate the wide range of topics. I consider myself a pop culture geek. I love comics, tv games, movies, etc. As a movie lover, I find great pleasure in introducing people to great, lesser known films. In this vein, I would like to suggest that you watch and maybe review slash discuss, one of my favorite movies, which is called Suicide Kings. It has an amazing cast, including Christopher Walken, dennis Leary and a post-Roseanne slash, pre-big Bang, johnny Galecki, to name a few. I've often brought it up in conversations, but I don't think I've ever met someone who had seen it. If you haven't seen it, I hope you'll give it a try. Either way, I thank you for your work you put into each episode. Your efforts are greatly appreciated and I wish you the best of success in your podcast. Thank you very much, mike.
Speaker 1:It is great to hear some fans sending us in some emails. So if you are a person like Mike and want to send us some emails, do so, which is fandomportals at gmailcom. Can't thank you enough. His suggestion of Suicide Kings is definitely going to go on our community watch list for our Community Portals Picks episode. But yeah, I was just blown away. We got some fan mail. That is absolutely awesome because, yeah, as a podcaster, sometimes you release this stuff and it's like sending it out into the void to never get heard ever again. But we got one, so it's like landing your first big fish. Thank you, mike from Virginia, usa. You're awesome, mike, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:This episode we're definitely still talking about dragon heart guys and this is the analysis episode we're going to be giving you some deep dives on the characters, uh, some of the uh insights, and we're definitely going to be rating it at the end to tell you whether we think this is a movie that is going on our fandom portals on board or not. So we're going to kick it off with our portals perspective segment. All right. The popcorn perspectives is a segment where the hosts take one character from the movie each and analyze their development and growth throughout the movie. We express to our co-host how this character should be viewed in your own opinion and the meaningful connections the character arc has made along the way. So, brash, your character was Aynan, mine was Bowen. Do you want to go first, because I feel like there is a lot we could talk about in terms of Aynan.
Speaker 2:Yes, nice, I'll go first Aynan.
Speaker 1:He is played by David Thouis. Yeah, difficult last name, difficult last name Thouis Thouis. It sounds like you're saying Lewis with a lisp, lewis, lewis.
Speaker 2:Lewis, lewis, yes, david, amazing actor, also plays um.
Speaker 1:Professor Lupin.
Speaker 2:Professor Lupin, the werewolf character from wow. Thanks Ace, thanks Ace. Um, yes, plays Professor Lupin, the werewolf character in Harry Potter also, as mentioned in the last episode. Um, he was also in Legends as well. I love Legends it's like one of my favourite movies of all time, but in the last episode he was also in Legends as well. I love Legends. It's like one of my favorite movies of all time. But, yes, aynan, the character of Aynan, the character that is so easy to hate.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think that the best part about him is how much you can hate him. Oh yeah. Just throughout the entire movie, even his younger self. I think, yeah, that's where it all started. Hey, because you know that it starts off with, obviously, bowen and Iron and having that duel.
Speaker 2:And you can see he's a little bit like as much as Bowen is trying to be like hey, if you want to be an awesome, cool knight, you have to follow the code and everything like that and be heroic and be nice and all that kind of jazz. But straight off the bat you can tell he's a little brat Kronk. I don't know what's his name, let's call him.
Speaker 1:Kronk, we know it's Vrok or Brock or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, brock as soon as he rocks up and is like, hey, man, we're at war and your father's gonna destroy this whole entire village, he's like, ooh, bloodshed. And then fucks and buggers off. It's At all. He's just a terrible, terrible person.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But then you see him. He sneaks onto the battlefield and finds his father who's just got who? Here's a nitpick, Pick the nit. Why would the king, who's leading this army, say it, ride into an area by himself, with no other soldiers, just to get mobbed?
Speaker 1:and killed. Pure neomaniac. I 100% agree. I 100% agree, yes.
Speaker 2:If Brock should have sepulchred himself or some shit because he failed as a knight? Because who lets their king go off by themselves?
Speaker 1:It's definitely a it's an underling job to go and burn the houses of the peasants that you're now marauding. He's like.
Speaker 2:You know what? I'm just going to ride off by myself and just settle. I'll blaze all these houses. You know what that's going to make people come out Exactly and then kill me because I'm by myself, because I didn't bring protection at all.
Speaker 1:But then from that we also get the first little picture of like we were kind of hinting at the fact that maybe this guy's a little bit of a brat, maybe this guy's a little bit boiled, you might say. But after this sort of scene, when his father is mobbed and tragically killed by the peasants we see Einan just become absolutely evil in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Goes for the crown. The father's still alive tries to hold on to it. He's like no, die, die, it's mine. Give me the crown, it's mine which begs the question for me.
Speaker 1:You know, bowen's been training this, this young gentleman, this prince, for all his life, supposedly. Uh, and he and his mother eventually then go to beg the dragon for his, his life and his forgiveness and to say, yes, he's a knight of the old code and he's following the old code and Bowen's teaching him the old code and he's such a good person and he's such a good knight. But you can see that there is that element of bloodshed in him, you can see that he's bratty and from 30 seconds with the character, we can tell that he's a bad egg.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%, but they still go ahead and and Dra, like his bat, yep, and they're like, oh no, it's going to be good. I swear to God, we'll make sure he's good.
Speaker 1:Swear it. We'll make sure he's good. Swear it. He must swear it. Swear it, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like, yeah, I'm going to be good, cool, but not for me. Here's half my heart.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and you know the actor that played Ayn performing thing in that whole segment and even for iron and for the whole time, the worst thing that is performing in regards and surrounding iron is his wig.
Speaker 2:what an atrocious piece of headgear if, if you want to make you hate someone having a really bad haircut that just and like just seeing it makes you angry, it's probably a good way to set up a bad guy, because you just already hate them just because of their hair.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely um. One thing that was funny with me, though, is when those characters were first introduced, the two characters of bowen and einan. Usually a way that um directors subconsciously pitch you one side or the other is they dress the character that's supposed to be evil in dark colors and the character that's supposed to be good in light colors, and when we first are introduced to these two characters, einan's wearing whites and golds and bowen's wearing blacks and silvers. So there's that sort of flip, and you also are introduced to the scene where they're. They're, you know, training each other, but bowen's being quite um, we'll say playful, but he's actually teasing him, and at one point he even like slaps him in the in the face there, and he's supposed to be this educational figure in his life, but he's really just humiliating him in this moment and it's just like why did this kid end up becoming a brat and hating everybody?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's because everybody's been shitting on him his entire life. But yeah, I think that was really interesting that they did that, whereas they put the good character in lighter colors and the oh sorry, the good character in darker colors and the evil character in the lighter colors. And I think that was intentionally done, because otherwise we're giving these hints that einan's a little bit of a prick, but we're we're not fully realizing it and we kind of have to believe that draco would believe that there is some good in him, because otherwise we'll be looking at this dragon that's been living for hundreds of years and wonder what a stupid choice he's making and why. So yeah, I think that that happening early on in the movie was good, but literally like 10 seconds after he leaves that dragon's cave and he swears on the old code that he will be an honorable man and he'll do justice to the heart. That's what he wants to do.
Speaker 2:I want to build up a castle. That's going to take a lot of people, a lot of manpower. I don't care. Yep, Ah, okay. Well, he's immediately just gone from. I swear I'm going to be good to Exactly.
Speaker 1:He's immediately just gone from. I swear I'm gonna be good to yeah, exactly right, and I yeah, I think he in that moment that's when we're like, ah, here we go.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, the complication has begun.
Speaker 1:He's already failed yeah, so let's go into a little bit more with iron and what happens to him later on in the story. Um, how does david continue to play this character in a manner that absolutely makes us hate him? I mean?
Speaker 2:mean he just doesn't change. It's like he's a bratty child and then grows up to be a bratty child, but just with more power, yep. And then he has his cast of goons with him, one including his I can't remember his name.
Speaker 1:Brock or Fenton Fenton, fenton's Jason Isaacs. Jason Isaacs this was his first speaking and proper sort of role in a movie and he does it amazing.
Speaker 2:He actually does. He does it amazing.
Speaker 1:I love his character he plays a snake in the grass really well, yeah, he's the villain in the Patriot and he is absolutely cutthroat. That performance in the Patriot is 100% stellar from Jason Isaacson.
Speaker 2:And there's Captain Hook too in Pan. Yes, no, his cast of goons he has with him definitely adds to his menace. Yeah, because Brock likes to hurt people and Arnon takes joy in that. So he gets Brock to hurt as many people as possible. He enjoys it. Fenton plays to his ego, sort of ramps him up to do horrible things, thinking that Aynan enjoys this, like taxing the roads. Yeah, aynan enjoys the dastardliness of it all, so Fenton hypes him up to shoot the arrow to kill Kara's father and Fenton's there egging him on to do it.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah betting him and gambling with him and things like that too.
Speaker 2:It plays off of it and makes him even worse of a person, because the people around him at that time are pretty much doing it to benefit themselves, but in doing so, just continue to make Ayn a worse and worse and worse person. Yeah.
Speaker 1:He's continually being validated in his poor behavior is how you would say it in a school setting, in a school setting yes, he's continually being validated by the people around him and that's how you see bullies arise is if there's a group mentality by the people around him. And that's how you see bullies arise, as if there's a group mentality, and they're continually just sort of egging people and getting what they want. Basically, and being the king, he would definitely get exactly what he wants, which is why he butts heads so much with Kara, because he obviously wants to have her hand in marriage and she's obviously very well opposed to that for a lot of good reasons and very, very headstrong and very determined to thwart any sort of plans that he has.
Speaker 1:He's also not very bright and I don't know if he's a little bit just subconsciously self-depreciative, because I remember a scene in the movie where he looks to Kara after you know he's killed her father and he says to her you know he's going to take her and put her in the dungeons and things like that, and he says, you know, I'll have to think up a fate for you that's worse than death. And then in the very next scene he's got her in the dungeon bedroom, like you know, dungeon bedroom in a castle, okay, but he's got her in the dungeon bedroom. And in the very next scene he says I'd like that he's an absolute worm.
Speaker 2:Realistically, that is a bit worse than that.
Speaker 1:That is exactly a bit worse than that, I know.
Speaker 2:And the thing is it's such he's such an interesting character in that when we see him he's a snob as Brad getting trained. And then we cut 12 years in the future and him and Bowen have a fight and he pretty much bests Bowen. Yep, he goes from the kid that Bowen was training, that was useless, to being able to go toe-to-toe with Bowen Yep.
Speaker 1:to never finding victory in the dirt, to finding victory in the water.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but that sort of like huh huh for someone who is now became king and probably, probably didn't really have anyone who would actually train him properly because they wouldn't want to either hurt him or offend him for fear of getting put, made a slave or killed. How do you get so good with the sword?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, no, I 100% agree with that, because he's also very good with a bow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and with a bow. I can probably understand the bow, because he probably goes hunting and that's a big ego boost when you kill prey.
Speaker 1:He probably won't. He's probably the best with a bow in the movie after Brother Gilbert. Yeah, brother Gilbert, holy hell.
Speaker 2:It's like Robert Vincente, when he's got that arrow, that the homing arrow just always hits the target.
Speaker 1:Always hits the target. But yeah, I think that he's, even when he is reintroduced to the dragon Draco, and that dynamic with Draco and Aynan is very important for the movie as well, because you know, Draco says it.
Speaker 1:He says he put his faith in humanity because he thought that this would be a way for his kind and humankind to sort of interact, especially, if you're thinking about it as well, if the dragon sort of saves the king, that's a very to a normal person and a good person you'd think, okay, well, that is a creature that I can bestow some honor on, that is a creature that you know, we can have this relationship with, but obviously completely forgets about the dragon of draco and his kind, goes into hiding pretty much and, yeah, dragons are pretty much forgotten about.
Speaker 1:So there is that shame that draco would feel as a as he trusts this individual and the word of the, the word of the mother and bowen, and yeah, I just think that he's just a very vile character. But I do like what you said before about how he does not change and from the start to the end of the movie he's a very vile character. But I do like what you said before about how he does not change and from the start to the end of the movie he's a very two dimensional villain, almost cartoonishly evil as well.
Speaker 2:I reckon he like from all the whole movie he is the same, but this is where I think splitting this movie into two would have been beneficial. So once he learns of the dragon and learns that he's pretty much immortal as long as the dragon lives, he sort of switches up from being that almost cartoonish villain to being a lot more evil and sinister. Killing his own mother, yes. Then capturing the dragon and going to war with the village. It sort of switches up from him being this almost carefree villain to being something a little bit more on the serious note.
Speaker 2:He seems to just get more menacing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's our transition into the third act in the end act where he almost becomes the warlord king, where he gathers his forces, gathers his army, and he's like no mercy. He doesn't care if his men die or if all of his people hate him. He just literally wants the things that he wants and he wants the conquest. So he'll go and he'll burn the forest and he'll go and he'll say scatter or die. There's no unity amongst his troops, it's literally every man for himself, but fight for the king. And then you know, as soon as it gets bad he'll piss off and everybody else will die in his wake. So he can be protected. But and even, as you were saying, you know being betrayed in that manner by his mother who hired the dragon hunters, so to speak, and him figuring that out as well. He really becomes malicious in that manner and he says one of the best lines in the whole movie. That's very, very quotable.
Speaker 2:He's like how unmotherly of you yes, how unmotherly and in his voice too. Yeah, like that, it's just, it's just so, it just hits the right mark. Yeah, because he doesn't.
Speaker 1:He doesn't really get to play on the immortal part of the fact that he finds out he's immortal because of the dragon yeah, there's only really about I don't know five to ten minutes of the movie where he's really playing and banking and using strategically his, his immortal status. Do you think, like we were talking about how he doesn't change and he doesn't really have an arc? But do you think his arc is that he just falls deeper and deeper down that hole?
Speaker 2:oh I think like you don't. It doesn't really seem like that until the very end, and then it's like, oh, I would have liked to seen more of this development. Yep, yep, but you don't get that chance because but yeah, I think he's definitely.
Speaker 1:He is a simple villain. You know he's evil. For this reason, he's definitely the king slash, spoiled prince archetype who just wants what they want the whole time. And I think for this movie it kind of works, because you don't really need more complications around that. In a family friendly fantasy film, you need to know the person that you want to hate and you need to hate them for a good reason, and I think that he definitely pulls that off. So I think, yeah, I think Guinan's a very hateable character, but I think he's hateable for Good reason. Yeah, well, yeah, for the Right reason.
Speaker 2:You're supposed to hate him, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, let's go on to Bowen Bow. To Bowen Bowen is the exact opposite of Ion. He's the antithesis of our villain character. He is the hero and as a result, he kind of goes on a classic hero's journey. The hero's journey archetype is used a lot in writing. It was made by Joseph Campbell and it goes through seven to nine stages of a hero's typical journey where in the start of the movie he's definitely introduced to us in the ordinary world is the trope that it's called where he actually goes. And you know you, us in the ordinary world, is the trope that it's called where he actually goes.
Speaker 1:And you know you can see him training Ainen, and he's a knight and he's very enamored by the old code, he's got those Arthurian values that we talked about and you know he's holding these idealistic beliefs before he eventually goes into this transformative state and the action that transforms him is basically Ainen. His ward is injured and he has to go and then, you know, save him through the dragon. However, ainen goes out and, as we spoke about before, he's immediately, you know, wanting to enslave the village. But for Bowen, he doesn't see that tyranny until he gets the heart. So he attributes the dragon's heart to witchcraft and as a result of that, that's his shattering in terms of his idealistic views and beliefs. So he has to start going down a new path. Or that call to action is where he's really trying to get the dragon's heart with his mother and to save Ainen. And then he's got that shattering event where he realizes that the ward he was actually trying to protect and the ward that he's been working with this whole time is actually an absolute prick, yeah, yeah. So, um, you know, when he, when he confronts einan, when he's about to burn out kara's father's eyes, and you know, he has that embracing moment where he's head to head with einan and he actually sits there and he says you know, uh, you know what, what's happened to you? You're bewitched, stop this. That's when you can see that he has that absolute turning moment where his complete beliefs in the code or in the order of anything is absolutely gone and he starts to walk onto a new path. He refuses the call and becomes a dragon slayer, which is the complete opposite of what his character was before. These honor bound beings of old magic and old code vibes in the dragon is something complete that he literally wants to eradicate and destroy from from this world. So he, he ends up becoming more of an anti-hero than a hero.
Speaker 1:And this was the interesting thing for me, because I reckon his shift in into this part, like where he he's the dragon slayer.
Speaker 1:I think he me, because I reckon his shift in into this part, like where he's the dragon slayer, I think his shift after meeting draco, which is another part of the hero's journey, meeting the mentor I think that happened way too quick in this movie and he, he really so he seems like a character that really just wants to believe in the old code but he's just been hurt and disillusioned by it for so long. And I think that once he met draco and he actually had a conversation with draco and they sort of bonded after being in each other's mouths for so long and you know, um, yeah, the the two days or whatever, or the three days that they spent doing that, I think that he sort of that's when he transitioned again into actually taking up the mantle and trying to move towards, um, actually realizing the truth about Aynan. Because, yeah, I think for you, does he present as a as a hero to you or an antihero? What do you think about Bowen?
Speaker 2:See, this is where my remembering of this movie wavers. So I forgot about the whole fact that he went around and actually killed dragon the middle, the middle act of the story. Yeah, I, from when I was cause I hadn't watched it since I was young my memory was that he was always befriended by Draco and for some reason in my head, initially I thought Bolin was the one with half the dragon heart. And they went around and they did the fake dragon killings for money, yep, until they're called up for a higher purpose, to defeat a tyranny. When I rewatched it I realised this was definitely not the case, definitely not, definitely not. And like for me, bowen, I think, is a character I least like yep, more so because it's just because I agree that everything moved too quickly. So I guess I understand he thinks dragons did it. He starts killing dragons because he thinks dragons did it. At no point was he like hmm, maybe I should stop what Iron's doing. Instead, I'll just kill every dragon because I'm angry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he was looking for the one, the one, the one dragon that did it, and then realized later on that if he had done that anyway, he would have killed Iron anyway.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I think it and then realize later on, if you had done anyway, we killed on anyway. So, um, yeah, but yeah, I think that, um, that that whole middle act where he's, he's going around slaying the dragons, that's the one, that, that's, that's the bit. That's a kind of off taste for me, because you know he's supposed to be this old knight that's following the code of valor and, yes, he does throw that away, but then he's, he's changing his character years yeah, yeah, yeah, he's changing.
Speaker 1:His character is that he goes and he hates dragons and he wants to kill all the dragons, but then he immediately goes in league with one to scam everybody out of money, and that was not something that he was ever indulging in, ever, like he didn't care about money.
Speaker 2:He'd do it because and then he did it to spite Aynet. Yeah, yeah, exactly, he's like. Oh, he's like, he's like any way to get the money from the crown, yeah, he just says that line.
Speaker 1:I've forgotten it exactly, but I think it's something like it's not the pay, it's the pleasure yeah, pleasure of Of actually finding and killing the dragons.
Speaker 2:So yeah, all the pleasure of killing dragons, but when he's talking about taking the gold he's like, oh, I don't mind taking the gold out of Iron's pocket. So are you still trying to track down these dragons and things? For Ain's sake because it seems like you don't like Ain now either.
Speaker 1:anyway, the contradictory thing for me as well is in the third act of the movie, when he actually goes and tries to defeat Ain and raise a rebel army against Ain, he's literally raising the same rebels as he just conned with this dragon ploy before. Like he's going through and in the three or four villages that he conned he's saying come and fight with me and let's get the oppressor, who's Aynan. But the only oppressor that they really see is the guy that came in and killed the dragon quotes, who didn't really kill the dragon to be fair, though, there he didn't actually get paid by trying to use the woman as the payment.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's true, kara ends up being the payment, but yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:And also is Bone immortal, because in 12 years he hasn't aged a day he has not aged a day, whereas they even aged up. Brock, he was old and he went grey and old, yep and Bone's, just like oh, I'm the same as I was 12 years ago. And now I've got Kara here, who was a child when I was what?
Speaker 1:maybe in my late 20s, 30s, yeah, and now we look like we could possibly be the same age Exactly. Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 2:And he's like, oh, and now I might be in love with this Kara.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I definitely got those vibes too. You know, I think that those sorts of things is why I do like Bowen as a character. But I definitely sort of gravitate towards heroic characters. But he has a little bit of muddiness in the middle which I think is supposed to replicate the refusal of the call of action and then him actually going and realizing and crossing the threshold into becoming the hero again. But I just think it got too muddy. It was almost like they didn't have the correct direction for him or they didn't have a plan to get him towards the end, or they had the beginning and the end sorted in their brain and the middle was just like let's just have some fun building the relationship between Bowen and Draco where they can both go and just play shark's tail 10 years before it actually happened, see what I would have liked.
Speaker 2:I would have liked an Anakin Obi-Wan style of mentor student where Arnon was being mentored by this knight who follows the old order, but a young knight Like. Maybe they could have got like a younger actor. So Arnon in that was probably like what 10 to 12.
Speaker 1:10 to 12. Like age, yeah.
Speaker 2:And they could have had like a 19, 20-year-old, like only a few years older knight, who probably is only a recent knight, but a knight of the old order. And as like his first sort of knightly sort of thing is to train the young prince who, because for a knight to be training the prince it wouldn't be like a big deal, whereas if it was like, say, a knight who was like the king's right hand man, that's sort of a big deal. Knight, he's training the young prince boy how to use a sword.
Speaker 1:I really like that, because then that would give us reason to believe that Bowen is ignorant enough to think that Aynan was not evil.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Whereas we're looking at Dennis Quaid playing Bowen.
Speaker 2:now he's supposed to be a seasoned knight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, having mentored Aynan for so long and us now supposed to be believing that he thinks Aynan is a lovely and beautiful boy, and it's just too far gone.
Speaker 2:It could be like the thing where they were friends, sort of in a way, so he was the teacher on. It could be like the thing where, like, they were friends, so it's sort of in a way, so he was, he was the teacher, he was teaching me how to fight. But because they were so closer in like, because they're closer in age, they could have been friends. Yeah, and because he was friends and he's teacher and he was a young knight like he, that could have been, like he could have only seen his friends in iron. And so when the dragon's like, oh no, this guy's got dark, he's like what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:he's my friend yeah and then that way, when, 12 years later, david Quaid how he looks and everything would be sorry, dennis Quaid how he looks and everything would be, would make sense. Make sense, yeah, that they look closer in age, where, because Dennis would then be, or Bowen would be only like five years older than both Kara and Aynan, yeah like, yeah, there is that sort of muddiness in the middle.
Speaker 1:And then there's the, the mentor relationship that he was for Aynan. Um, he definitely then goes and has like a student mentor relationship with Draco and then that's sort of the heart of the movie and I really like the fact that they become friends.
Speaker 2:But like the vehicle for that might not have been so great it was really quick and for someone who outright hates will's been to eight outright hate dragons to then become going and putting a warm blanket on him and sharing stories amongst the stars and like naming him and things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it definitely seems very, very quick through that middle section, uh, and then obviously it gets to the end of the, the hero's journey, where the hero has to go through the supreme ordeal, which is like it's Draco's sacrifice. He has to basically kill his friend in order to vanquish the world of the ultimate evil, which is Aynan at this point, and he struggles to do that. So you do definitely see a return to form, like he returns back to how he was at the very start a knight of the old code and an honorable knight. And it's more epitomized in the scene we mentioned earlier, with him being in Avalon and, you know, re-quoting the old code lines.
Speaker 1:He definitely goes through that sort of transition, but again that sort of happens very, very quickly again and it all builds up to, you know, the return of the hero, which is when Draco goes to the stars and then Bowen is honored in a manner where he's like a selfless knight and you know, brother Gilbert says Kara and Bowen led the army of peasants into an era of freedom and prosperity after that. So he definitely does go through this hero's journey pattern with a little bit of mightiness in the middle, but I agree his transformation is abrupt and I also think at the start he's very much motivated by vengeance and revenge, as opposed to an injury like justice, like he's not trying to serve justice as a knight of the old code should, or as somebody who, you know, he's not trying to correct an injustice like he perceives it. He's actually being very vengeful. He's going out and killing all of the dragons because one of them hurt his beliefs. Yeah, which is not knightly.
Speaker 2:No, not at all. Yeah, the thing is, the whole thing is set up. He blames the dragon for Irons going bad. But how much does Bowen and Irons' mother do to stop this? Because it seems like Irons' mother does nothing.
Speaker 2:There would have been signs before he was that age that he was a bloody prick yeah, but like even, but even, like after the dragon heart thing, he just let him start slipping that way and like the mother, like, yes, he is now technically the king, but it's still the mother. The mother still was like the queen. Surely she had enough, I don't know, power or something to be like hey man this isn't cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it might be an idea to not, not, not enslave of people exactly like we can do this.
Speaker 2:Like it might take, might take a bit longer, but we can do this the right way by like hiring people and paying them to for the work, um, instead of, you know, enslaving a whole people.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think he's definitely a flawed hero and sometimes that works in a story, but he's just a little bit inconsistent for me to to look at his character and be like, okay, like he's definitely going on this, this righteous hero journey where he slipped. He slips in the middle but he, he comes back through. But I think the way that he slips is absolutely converse to how his character is represented.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think how they got from point A to point B had way too many Details along the way. Details, yeah.
Speaker 1:Too many dragon slaying along the way. All right, let's go to our real deal segment. All right, the real deal segment. All right. The real deal segment is where we randomly select a criteria or a lens to view the movie through and we discuss elements with the intention of finding out whether it can be rated positively or negatively. Each week. The names of these positive and negative criteria will reflect a fun element of the movie and we will range the topics from cinematography all the way to character development, villains, themes, score, all those sorts of things. So if something is good this week, brash, we're going to rate it as to the stars, to the stars, right, and if something is bad, we're going to name it. The oldest joke in the book, and probably one of the most dad jokiest lines in the whole entire Dragonheart movie, is the peasants are revolting because it's revolting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because they're revolting and they're also just revolting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're rebels, but they're revolting. So let's generate our first piece of criteria for our Real Deal segment. Okay, and we have generated up the acting performances. Did you want to start with this Brash or did you want me to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, performances. Did you want to start with this brash or did you want me to? Yeah, I'll start. Yep, go for it. Um, I enjoyed the acting of pretty much everyone. Okay, everyone did an amazing job, like I can't even say, because for me all the characters were really good. I just think maybe the story let them down a little bit and possibly a bit of the writing. Yep, um, especially for paul dennis yes, he, yep. Especially for Paul Dennis yes, he got a bad rap for this one, absolutely. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and I can understand why, because his character just seems so all over the place.
Speaker 1:Yep, especially with his accent. Yeah, like, at some point he's a little bit Irish. At some point I was wondering why he was the only American in a very British setting, and at other times I'm just like oh he's turned his pirate on.
Speaker 2:He's being a pirate right now it's for the pleasure but yeah, I think that giving me gold.
Speaker 1:I think it's so hard to act to nothing, which is what he had to do a lot of the time. A lot of his emotional scenes were pitted toward a cut out like a 10 foot dragon's head made from Henson Studio or just simply two tennis balls or a stick, and he was basically given the hardest job and some people say that he did well in regards to his job and some people said that he kind of dropped the ball. But I think that's also coupled with the fact that some people don't really like Bowen's character and sometimes people conflate the character and the actor together. He's definitely my least favorite, but unfortunately that's. He's a big part of the movie.
Speaker 2:He is a big part of the movie and unfortunately it is because of the way his character is written. I think it's a big part of why it seems so not great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm wondering if it's more fluid in the novelization for the movie, because they obviously are allowed to to add more in and have more scenes.
Speaker 2:And then there'll be more. It's like Lord of the Rings there's more detail, yep, in it, whereas here it has to be condensed. Yeah, a little bit, cause I think that's the worst part about Bowen, because Bowen is such a big part of the movie and so much time happens between start to finish. But we have to see that in an hour and a half.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think you know we were talking about King Einan before. He is a very sort of cartoonishly evil character, but I think he plays that well, yeah, and his is just straightforward, straightforward, exactly right. Let's talk about Sean Connery's performance as Draco. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:I love Sean Connery's performance. I think Sean Connery is a perfect choice for a dragon. I agree, he's regal in the way that he speaks.
Speaker 1:He's even played King Arthur before. He's played King Arthur and the Scottish accent and the Scottish dialect that he has a very recognisable voice but also very regal balances that humour and wisdom really well. And the way that they express his face on Draco is just like it's almost like he was on the screen. You know he was good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% Patrick Stewart, who voiced the other Dragonheart movies. They always pick someone who's and I think this is a great choice. They always pick someone whose voice is either sort of unique or just that like patrick stewart, like recognizable recognizable but he's also very like um. If you've watched star trek and he's like so, it's very regal. His voice has that age and wisdom to it. Yep, patrick stewart's has that um sort of elegance and that um importance and, like the like, that dignity to it.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, it's almost. He embodies this, uh, this nobility, and for a fantasy setting, I feel very brave when I hear sean connery's voice. I guess is one way to think about it as well, and I, as we've said before, I love how he switches it up between his. He can be extremely ferocious and angry, as a dragon should be, because they are a wild and ferocious creature, but they've also got this sentimentality and softness and the fantastical sort of fantasy lore keepers in that sort of space, and Sean Connery does all of that in terms of the way that he sounds when you hear his voice. If he was actually alive now, I wish that he would do like sleep stories for the Calm app, because I would listen to that all day. Yes, you're drifting off to sleep. Sweet dreams, my pretty.
Speaker 2:I just yeah, but yeah, and that's the thing he brings to like the voices of things, unlike Patrick Stewart and John H, the thing he brings to like voices, the voices of things, um, unlike patrick stewart and john hurt, he has that one where. So patrick stewart being angry in a dragon's voice, like dragon, I don't, I couldn't really picture it, yeah, whereas sean connery, I can picture him being a ferocious dragon and then I can also picture him being sort of, um, that soft, kindhearted wisdom in it and he sort of brings that duality, whereas like, say, yeah, john Hurt, I can see him like even in the Merlin show, like his dragon is meant to be very like knowledgeable and that helping out Merlin. Yeah, there was a few times there where he gets angry, but it just doesn't really have the impact.
Speaker 1:He was 100% the draw card for this movie. I think when they were looking at casting somebody, they knew it had to be somebody with a recognizable voice. They knew it had to be an A-list actor because it also gave authenticity to what they were doing. They were doing something experimental. They were working with technology that had never been trialed, so if somebody was going to jump on board it had to be an A-list actor that people would come to the cinema to see Especially, come to the cinema to see Especially fantasy, exactly. And who better than Sean Connery, who had dipped his toe in the genre before, who has that professional atmosphere towards his acting and, according to sources as well, it did also say Sean Connery was very enthusiastic to appear in this movie because it was sort of cutting edge using different sorts of technology and, as I said before, he's very happy about the acting requirements of the job.
Speaker 2:He never had to go outside of the studio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly so I think. Yeah, he definitely pulled it off. Another person I want to mention before we rate this is Caro, who's played by Dina Meyer.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Very famous for playing Diz in Starship Troopers, I think for her in 1996, she was a very, very, very good portrayal of a female warrior on screen. Director Rob Cohen said that he needed to cast somebody who could believably wield beauty, you might say, where they're sort of slender and feminine and things like that. But I think they went the right direction with Kara in terms of her warrior nature but also like the heart that she brought to the movie as well. I think she did good and it's redheads yes brave like, really brave, Like any sort of.
Speaker 2:I think the only thing I would have liked more is if she had some sort of like Scottish accent slightly yep, yep. With the redhead Scottish accent I could be like 100%, be like damn, she's automatically a warrior to me in my mind. Yeah, yeah, see, and then, but it also, it's not a long again, it's so squished and condensed.
Speaker 2:But there is that part where she is, the little bow and arrow showing her how to wield two axes. Yep, and you can see at the start of the house she's like pulling a bit, like hitting him with the flaccid blades, not sort of getting the strikes. And then Bowen's like you're making it too difficult for yourself, fully mansplaining.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mansplaining.
Speaker 2:You're making it too difficult for yourself by just flailing around and trying to be all like suave and tricky and shit. Just be like you just need to survive. You need to kill and survive and it's like, just do it simply because you can get yourself killed otherwise. But then, yeah, she, in her own right, is so. I wish they had made her a little bit more warrior-like, because when she gets captured, she still becomes the damsel in distress again.
Speaker 1:She does, yeah, she does play that tropes on occasion too, and you know that's very common during the 90s and that's obviously something that movies are trying to sort of step away from now. But Does she kill? Yes, brock Brock.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think that was fucking amazing, His last words.
Speaker 1:I noted this as well his last words were a girl, a girl, yeah, and he says it twice. He's like a girl, a girl.
Speaker 2:So I think they definitely the fact that he got killed by a girl.
Speaker 1:they knew what they were doing but her acting performance in that totally believable, as the fact that she was absolutely repulsed by him. Because how could you not be when? They're wearing a wig like that so I think she did a good job too. Let's give our final verdicts on this one. Is it to the stars or is it? The peasants are revolting. What do you think?
Speaker 2:I have to say To the Stars Yep, with a slight Revolting Bowen, revolting Maybe, just a, you know, to the Stars revo.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, yep, I like that. I'm probably exactly the same. I think it's a To the Stars for all of the characters, boosted very much by Sean Connery's voice performance. I think the only downside to it is Dennis Quaid's performance as Bowen.
Speaker 2:I think, uh, yeah, that's probably the only more, not so much that he's about active.
Speaker 1:I think it's just, unfortunately, how his character is written all right, let's see what is up next on our generator. All right, so it's come up with the plot structure and the analysis and we kind of went through this one. We're talking about bowen and also iron, and so we might just touch on it briefly. I think this definitely has a three-act structure. There is the start and the beginning, where we obviously get introduced to all the characters in the world, and then in the middle it gets that little bit muddy that we talked about and then towards the end it it starts to pick sort of back up and sharpen. Uh, but those transitions happen very, very quickly. So I think for the structure there's also quite a number of holes, like we were talking about before.
Speaker 1:That definitely served to move the story along, most notably the king writing off on his own, and then also towards the end, when everybody's conveniently placed in the right time and the right place to go and rescue Draco, and then also the absolute story element where you know King Einan's defeated and destroyed, so therefore everybody that's in his employ immediately disappear. There's no other revolting after that or no competition after that. It's just like a convenient sort of plot device. So I think for me it's got this weak structure but it does have some moments of emotional core. I think that is definitely the strength of the movie, where that emotional core sits between bowen and draco and you know that epic send-off at the end.
Speaker 1:I will talk about that because I as a kid I cried and even when I was watching it recently, as a 35 year old man, like I get this thing where I get tinglys and like goosebumps and stuff whenever I hear that soundtrack and that To the Stars, and I think that ending was really well paid off and that just is a testament to Rob Cohen's direction in terms of how to finish a story. So I think for me, I think as a consistent sort of approach, I'm probably going to have to say it's the Peasants Are Revolting for the story. For me, what about you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to say the same. So what I thought Dragonheart was in my head was not. I rewatched in my head the story made sense. The overarching story, yeah, I get it. Yeah, the idea is good, yeah, but the bits and pieces in between it just make it make like, yeah, the whole middle of that movie I was sort of like going that doesn't make sense. Yep, that doesn't make sense. Yep, that doesn't make sense. I'm like you. You just deathly hate these people or hate these dragons. Yet you're gonna be friends with one. Wait till it scars down. You're meant to really hate these things and then, when you find out that it's a dragon with half the heart, you're like, oh, okay, yeah just brushes over that fact and it's like, yeah, my thing with that is he.
Speaker 1:He spoke to this dragon in the cave when it was giving iron in his heart how do you not know the voice, recognize the voice and also how many of the dragons that he is killing is speaking to him. So how many does he have a little conversation with?
Speaker 2:um, I don't know how that that's a bit of plausible. And if he's trying to find the one that, like that, has the heart but he kills these dragons doesn't get no dragons can talk because he's talked about before. He doesn't get any information off of them, he just kills them.
Speaker 1:He just kills them and it's like, oh, maybe he checks afterwards and looks to see if they've got half a heart or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Cut out the heart and see if it's there.
Speaker 1:All right. So what are you giving this for the?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, peasants are revolting.
Speaker 1:All right, very good, so we're in agreeance of that. All right, a musical score that is produced by Randy Edelman, I believe, and to me I'm going to say it right off the bat this is to the stars. I have been listening to this in my car for the last two days. As you know, I am a lover of orchestral music. I think that when we're supposed to like, for example, bowens, I think that the score for Bowen does a better job of portraying his character than the character does.
Speaker 1:because you know there's that sort of playfulness and that knightly sort of virtue through the start, where it's kind of the timpani orchestra sort of playing, and then when it gets to the really gravity-filled part, that's that brave, honour and code-filled. Knight Draco's theme that plays towards the end when he's flying off into the stars, just packs you with emotional resonance and that's exactly what a film's score should do.
Speaker 1:it should be something that guides the emotionality of the film and you know we talked about highlight the yeah, highlight the moments exactly we talked about, like what moments you should feel something in and what moments you should not feel something in and, in that way, what you should be feeling. So we talked before about how there was. There's that line that I said before where we remember how movies make us feel, not what happens in the movie, and when we remember what makes, like what parts of a movie makes us feel a certain way. It's always coupled with a soundtrack element or a musical element, and I feel like this is probably the best part of this movie for me, apart from Sean Connery voicing the dragon. The score for me is fantastic.
Speaker 1:A couple of nights this week I fell asleep to the finale soundtrack and just because it was so, it's so beautiful and it's so just resonant of the story and it takes me to like a fantasy place and it fills me with feelings of nostalgia from going to the movies with my grandmother. It's just that's what music should do. Yeah, so for me this is a very much and very strong to the stars. What about you?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, no, I'm the same to the stars. Some of my favorite ones are when the botched dragon killing happens and he falls into the lake and then they start the chase between the cannibal villagers and the rest of them and it's sort of that cat and mouse sort of playful, sort of trilling sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:And like my brother Gilbert's like running around um trying to like persuade them not to do it and like that, just the backing music to that is just yeah, love that kind of shit and um, especially the music played when Bollandre doing his yes, his oath. His oath.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really good and resounding and like full of gravity in that moment as well, like you can tell that that's, that's a really powerful character.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you can tell that that this is his, like this is his final form yes, yes, yeah, exactly, that's a good way to put it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think, I think that the, the is absolutely just to the stars for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely to the stars.
Speaker 1:All right, that is the end of our Real Deal segment. Now we're going to move into our most valuable takeaways. All right, so our most valuable takeaways, where we discuss the most important thing we learned from the media that we have watched. It could be something that extends our knowledge or something that we can apply to our life. It can be as simple as a piece of dialogue that stuck with us, or a thematic and moral lesson, or a technical piece of cinema. I might start with this one, the thing that I was trying to pull like a moral lesson from the movie, and I really couldn't get there, because I think the moral lessons I was trying to find were coming from Bowen's character, and he's just too scattered for me.
Speaker 1:So I think the thing that intrigued me most about this movie was the fact that there is that massive difference between the nostalgic childhood viewing and the reality of the rewatch. So for me I think you know the reasons I tried to look at the reasons why I absolutely love this as a child, and it was. It was because, you know, there was that hero's journey for Bowen. There was somebody that I knew was the good guy and somebody that I knew was the bad guy and that is very good for a child watching a movie. You know I have somebody to back and I have somebody who I'm supposed to hate. There is also a wise and very, extremely lovable dragon, to the point where when I was watching this usually in movies like this, I do turn them off when my children walk in the room, but when, like, draco was on the TV, my son was absolutely enamored by this dragon and my daughter called it a ra, because that's what she calls dinosaurs. So it's like it's that enamoring, magical thing and for somebody as young as you know six, for me, when I watch this and you're seeing a talking dragon on the screen, it's magical and it's it's really just pulls that sort of mythical vibe from it.
Speaker 1:And I think there is also some very clear moral lessons in this movie as well, which is why it hits so nostalgically. You know, there is the honor of the knights, there's the corruption of Aynan and the king, there is the sacrifice that is played by Draco and there's just that good and evil in a fantasy sort of setting in the story. And then also the CGI at the time absolutely spectacular. Now, like, probably not so much, but at the time it was revolutionary and spectacular, I think it was. Now, looking at it, you're very critical and you're looking at it through a very critical lens, having watched lots of movies from then on.
Speaker 1:But, as I said before, I still felt at the ending the same way I felt when I was a kid, when I watched this, and that's what movies are supposed to do. So for me, my most valuable takeaway is the fact that sometimes, sometimes when you're watching a movie, I feel like that sometimes seeing a perfect film isn't the best technically. Sometimes a perfect film for you is like a meaningful one, or one that shaped your imagination, or one that really pushed you into storytelling. And you know I've done a Dungeons and Dragons podcast. I've loved fantasy all my life.
Speaker 1:This has influenced me, like this dragon movie in 1996 with Sean Connery, with shonky CGI and a really scatty hero played by Dennis Quaid. Like it influenced me. And it's not the best movie, but it's still one that I love. So that's why I found it really hard to rate, which we'll get to very soon. But my most valuable takeaway is that is that you know, sometimes a movie has flaws, but an imperfect film can leave a lasting impression. Perseverance, love it, so get through this movie even though it's bad um.
Speaker 2:I think perseverance um plays a big part in pretty much all of the characters in this. So cara caras is to um. Even though all of her people are enslaved, her father's enslaved, she still tries to get people moving, to get them to rise up to stand up for themselves, even when her father is killed. She then still, instead of she perseveres.
Speaker 2:She perseveres and keeps going, tries to kill Iron and gets captured, escapes, tries to find someone else who can help her build an army to take on iron. And she keeps going, even bowen. So there's a line which I found in the movie where bowen says to draco I no longer try to change the world, dragon, I just try to get by in it. And draco says yes, well, it's better than death, I suppose.
Speaker 2:And Bowen then has a shot at Draco with oh is it? I should think you welcomed death. You know the last of your kind, all your friends dead, hunted, wherever you go. And then Draco, do you delight in reminding me? Yes, not, I do long for death, but fear it. And then Bowen says why, aside from your misery, what's to lose? And Draco's like my soul, yeah, but I I feel like like both of those guys in that moment, like they're both just trying to get by and the like balance had his world shattered, is like his oath is dashed yeah, he's put trust in somebody and it was turned out to be a shitty idea sh idea.
Speaker 2:And now the person who he was meant to help and meant to lead to be a good person and a good king is doing the complete opposite and, as a failure, his only motivation now is just to get by but keep going. Because there's just something in the back of his mind that he's like no, you can't just give up, you've got to keep going. And then eventually, that's when he like, meets Draco and then eventually meets Kara, and eventually they rise up and eventually they right the wrong. That happened years ago. And the same with Draco. Like, yeah, like, as Bond said, like all your, your whole entire race is dead. I've killed them all, yeah.
Speaker 1:Um is dead. I've killed them all. Yeah, um, you've got nothing left to live for. He's like, yeah, it's true, but he's like what are you doing? Because I fear it, I, this stuff I can live for. There's like his existence has meaning, not just because he's alive, but also because, like he is the last one, he, I am the last one. Uh, I do, I do, um, but yeah, I think that's a really powerful quote that you pulled out there, because it shows both of those characters connecting on a really emotional level.
Speaker 2:That couldn't be more different, really, and both of them having that united view of persevering through a very tough time yeah, because both both of them at that time realistically don't have anything to live for and they don't have anyone and they don't have anyone live for, don't have anything to live for, but they're still both willing to fight tooth and nail to stay alive when they both fight each other.
Speaker 2:They've got like. They've realistically got nothing like. For 12 years, balan's been chasing his tail trying to save Aynan from something that he really honestly couldn't save him from, and Draco's the last of his kind and he's a male.
Speaker 1:Yep, so there's no future prospects. No more unless they can become a seahorse Until you watch Dragonheart New Beginning True, true, true, true and there's a secret baby. Yeah, there's a secret baby.
Speaker 2:But yeah, and they've both got really nothing going for them, but they still fight tooth and nail to survive each other. And then eventually they're like, oh man, we've got friends. And then it's like, hey, as your friend, you need to kill me, yeah, and that sort of brings in that two people that have got nothing coming together to create a bond and then unfortunately, at the end which makes it so powerful having to sever that bond for the good of mankind, yeah, that bond for the good of mankind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and yeah, I think that that severing comes at the like the sacrifice of the self but obviously the betterment of everybody else, and I think it also those two characters both believed that that was the right thing to do because of, even though they were so different, as we said, they were drawn together through this perseverance, but they also had a shared vision of the old code, Him being a creature of the old code and him being a knight of the old code. Yeah, I think that that's a really good takeaway in terms of perseverance, because both and all characters in that movie definitely exhibit it. Good job.
Speaker 2:Brash, I do want to say that scene when he renews his oath when I was watching it and then when Draco comes back out for me for some reason, I thought that Draco was saying the voice, saying the voice.
Speaker 1:I thought that as a kid yeah, as a kid, I thought that too. And then I found out it was actually like the voice of. King Arthur.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in the commentary it is the voice of King Arthur but I thought for sure, for some reason I thought it been Sean Connery as his King Arthur character. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:His might defends the weak. No, we would have known.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for some reason I thought it was him, but I thought he was downplaying his accent in it, but I still thought he was the one voicing it. All right, let's rate it.
Speaker 1:Okay, brash, this is the fandom portals on a board. This is where we rate our movies and place them on our letterbox on a board. This is where we rate our movies and place them on our letterbox on a board. The board can be followed and tracked on letterbox at fandom portals. Uh, so far, the leading movie is the crow, which has an average of 4.25 from Brash and myself's rating. Uh, we both give this movie a score out of five and we take the average to see where it will sit. So, as I said, this is a very hard watch for me, or a hard rating for me, because you're really picking. I'm picking myself whether I'm going to rate a movie highly because it has made me feel a lot and I have a lot of nostalgia attached to it, or whether I'm going to give it a realistic score in terms of its technical how it actually holds up.
Speaker 1:How it actually holds up. That's what I'm struggling with. I was going to say I'll let you go first.
Speaker 2:Sorry, two and a half okay because I think the two and a half is purely the um, like most of the actors and acting, the score and um, how. Even though it's it's rough, the visuals are still, for that time, really good. The story for me is what let it down. There are good story beats, like the ending really nice. The start, it was all right.
Speaker 1:Bits and pieces in the middle were good, yeah, moments of heartfelt and awesome and awesome.
Speaker 2:Draco singing good the fake killing yeah, Risen up. Kara good Falling into the marsh good yeah. Rizanuk Kara Good Falling into the marsh Good, good, yeah. But there's so many other parts where I was like, for me it's just forgettable, and I think that's why the story in my head was different to what I remember, because I think so, yes, two and a half for me.
Speaker 1:All right. So if I was to rate this with my heart, I would give it five out of five, but I think I will stick in the vein of our podcast and I'll probably give it a three, because I think that I cannot underappreciate the CGI at the time. I know, looking at it now, a lot of people do have some gripes with it.
Speaker 2:It was great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think at the time just to animate Draco's lips in the way that they did, and not everything matches the words, but it is revolutionary for the time, and trying to mimic a human's mouth onto a dragon-shaped skull is very difficult and it pulls off. They pull it off, not to mention the flying sequences across the sky. They replaced a plane, they flew over a plane and then they replaced that plane with Draco. I think that technologically it is absolutely profound. Sean Connery's performance awesome. Technologically it is absolutely profound. Sean Connery's performance awesome. The good versus evil and the simplicity of that story is something that's awesome for a family-friendly fantasy film. And yeah, as we said, there's some story elements in the middle act that don't fit. Some of the acting is a little bit choppy as well, and then, yeah, there's just some beats that don't quite fit it. So for me it's a three. For Brash it's a a 2.5. Let's see where it sits. All right, so that puts dragon heart at the 10th position, which means it still sits in the top 10 of the fandom portals on a board, which is awesome. Top 10 is nothing to be shy of, considering that we have 27 episodes out. Not too bad, um, and then you know, maybe in the future it'll remain in the top 10, we'll see, but uh, definitely, if you like fantasy films and you want something to show your kids when they're about, you know, seven to twelve, it's probably hitting that age range, I think. Yeah, I think that that is a really good score for it.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's do our sign-offs. Okay, this has been the phantom portals podcast. We want to thank you guys for joining us, as always, and if you wanted to add a viewing choice to our communities watch list, then you can do so on Letterboxd and you can also join us on Threads and Instagram and Reddit, where you can put those suggestions in or even just comment on some of the posts that we put up asking for your opinions, because sometimes we read them out on the show. We want to thank Mike again from Virginia in USA for sending us that fan mail. If you're a person that has a long form question or if you want to send us a movie recommendation on emails, then you can do so at our email address, which is fandom portals at gmailcom. All right, that is us from the fandom portals podcast, aaron, signing out to the stars.
Speaker 2:Brush to the stars well, thanks for joining us and hope you enjoyed the episode. So, yeah, now down on our podcast, we'll be talking about gabriel. Uh, for those who know what's about, it's about the struggles between good and evil, between heaven and hell, on our little mortal plane that is Earth. Keep a lookout for that one. I personally like that movie, and it's one that I suggested that we have a look at, or Aaron to have a look at, because I've seen it and he hasn't.
Speaker 1:Yes, so definitely go in and do your homework for next week, guys. That is Gabriel we're going to be looking at. But yeah, thank you so much for joining us guys. We really do appreciate it and we'll catch you guys later. Cheers, cheers, cheers.
