New Mutants (2020) - Are Horror and Superheroes a Perfect Match? Transformation through Connection with the New Mutants

Aaron and Brash explore how Josh Boone's horror-inspired X-Men film New Mutants stands as a fascinating anomaly in superhero cinema. A psychological horror film disguised as an X-Men movie that dares to explore the trauma and isolation inherent in discovering you're different. Unlike most superhero fare, this final entry in Fox's X-Men franchise eschews world-ending stakes for something far more intimate and chilling.

Topics:
Director Josh Boone, a passionate fan of the source material, crafts a story that feels more Stephen King than Stan Lee, drawing heavily from the iconic Demon Bear saga while incorporating influences from horror classics like Nightmare on Elm Street and The Shining. The film follows five young mutants trapped in a mysterious facility, each confronting their powers and personal demons while forming bonds that ultimately save them.

What makes this film special is how it returns to the core themes that made X-Men comics revolutionary – using mutation as a metaphor for adolescence, trauma, and found family. Through characters like Danny Moonstar (Blue Hunt) and Illyana Rasputin (Anya Taylor-Joy), we see how powers emerge from trauma, how fear can manifest physically, and how connection becomes essential for survival. 

Despite production challenges and pandemic-related delays that prevented planned reshoots and sequels, The New Mutants remains a bold experiment in superhero storytelling. 

Ready to discover a different kind of superhero story? Join us as we explore how The New Mutants bridges horror and heroism in ways that make it one of the most distinctive entries in Marvel's cinematic universe. 

Key Takeaways:

• The New Mutants serves as the final film in Fox's X-Men universe, blending psychological horror with superhero elements
• Director Josh Boone, a major fan of the comics, draws heavily from the iconic Demon Bear saga
• The film features strong horror influences from Nightmare on Elm Street, The Shining, and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
• Production challenges included Disney's acquisition of Fox and the COVID-19 pandemic, delaying release from 2018 to 2020
• Anya Taylor-Joy's portrayal of Magic/Illyana Rasputin stands out as particularly faithful to the comics
• John Hamm was originally cast as Mr. Sinister but his scenes were cut from the final version
• The movie explores themes of friendship, trauma, and identity – core elements of X-Men storytelling often overlooked in previous films

Apple Podcast Tags:

NewMutants, MarvelMovies, XMenUniverse, DemonBearSaga, JoshBoone, Magik, DaniMoonstar, MCU, MarvelCinematicUniverse, MutantMayhem, ComicBookMovies, FandomPortalsPodcast, GeekFreaksNetwork, MovieBreakdown, MarvelHorror 

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Chapters

• 16:27 Fandom Facts Face-Off Begins
• 25:06 Introduction to The New Mutants
• 35:06 Set Secrets and Horror Influences
• 1:22:06 Character Spotlight: Magic and Danny
• 1:26:17 Most Valuable Takeawy, Friendship and the Feeling of being an outsider
• 1:31:23 Rating it and ranking it!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Mr Sinister was actually going to be in the movie. Do you know who he's going to portray?

Speaker 2: 0:05

I do and I actually think it's awesome. It is awesome, I think it would be such a good casting.

Speaker 2: 0:24

Welcome to the Fandom Portals podcast, the podcast that explores how fandoms can help us learn and grow. This week, we looked at the New Mutants from 2020, and I'm joined as always by Mr Adam Brasher, or, as we like to call him, brash. How are you going Brash? Too bad yourself? Oh, mate, I'm going pretty good, not too bad at all. The New Mutants 2020,. It was made well. It was released.

Speaker 2: 0:46

That's another story, but we picked this one as part of our Marvel month. It's the second one so far of our Marvel month. We have already done an episode on the Fantastic Four and this is the second installment for our Marvel month of April. It's the 13th Fox movie in the X-Men universe and it was the last one to be released by Fox. It's a psychological, horror and superhero movie.

Speaker 2: 1:06

In this episode, you guys are going to look at and learn about how classic horror films influenced the chilling tone of the New Mutants, how director Josh Boone adapted the iconic Marvel Demon Bear saga for the big screen, how characters like Danny, moonstar and Magic were portrayed and whether they lived up to their comic book roots, and how production nightmares and the pandemic turned a promising franchise starter to a box office blob Brash. This movie is about five young mutants just discovering their abilities. While held in a secret facility against their will, they fight to escape their past sins and save themselves. You know who directs this movie, brash? Yes, that would be Josh Boone. Yes, it is Josh Boone. And yes, it is Josh Boone and it's also written by Josh Boone and his best friend, nate Lee. Big fan, big fan.

Speaker 1: 1:50

Josh Boone. He's a big fan of the Marvel comics.

Speaker 2: 1:54

He actually is. Yeah, and that shows through this whole movie him and Nate Lee big fans of the New Mutants as they sort of arrived around the 80s and 90s and that sort of era Got a couple of stars in this young budding stars. One of them that I enjoyed watching was Charlie Heaton, the mayor himself from Stranger Things. He plays Sam Guthrie as Cannibal. Who are some people that you like to watch in this one Brash? Oh, annette Taylor-Joy. She's always a joy to watch, absolutely Like her new movie on Apple Plus. The Gorge is also Love that movie, yeah, not too bad. And then obviously she gained fame from the Queen's Gambit and she plays Also in our series.

Speaker 2: 2:31

Yeah, yeah, ileana Rasputin in this one, and we've got Maisie Williams as well, who was obviously In Benethrones.

Speaker 1: 2:38

She was Arya Stark.

Speaker 2: 2:41

She can't escape that wolf vibe, can she? No, she does a really good job she does in this one. Yeah, she plays Rain Sinclair, who is obviously Wolf's bane from the New Mutants. She is kind of like the heart of this movie. I would say she's the one all the teen inmates slash patients gather around. You might say, yeah, all right, brash, do you know how much this movie was made for Budget?

Speaker 1: 3:07

I'm going to much. This movie was made for budget, I'm gonna guess I think 2020, five mil, no much more. 67 million, 67. I didn't think that last far as it has a pretty significant cg in this movie, that would be a lot of money, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:15

So 67 million is what it was made for and it actually only grossed 49.2 million. That's super unfortunate, yeah, super unfortunate. There's a couple of reasons for that we might get into in the podcast. But, brash, here's a little of reasons for that we might get into in the podcast. But, brash, here's a little fun fact for you. Before we get into our fandom facts, face-off in our first pre-facts. A pre-fact, you might say Did you know? A lot of people are on the fence, you might say, about this movie, the New Means, but it was actually nominated for an award and it wasn't a Razzie. It was actually nominated for the best comic book to film motion picture adaptation for 2020.

Speaker 1: 3:47

To be fair, it is extremely accurate because Josh Broon obviously was a huge fan.

Speaker 2: 3:52

Exactly right. It is very accurate to the Demon Bear saga, which we'll also be going into in today's episode. The other nominees for this award in 2021 was Bloodshot with Vin Diesel, Birds of Prey with Margot Robbie and the Joker. So they didn't win because obviously the Joker won it, but it is interesting to know that the New Means was in fact, nominated for an award which, yeah, very interesting. Alright, let's dive into our First Takes segment. Alright, this is our First Takes segment. This is where we discuss our first thoughts of the media and unpack the boldest opinions, from what surprised us to what split the room. We'll also highlight your hot takes from our threads, Instagram and Reddit community. So if you wanted to get involved in that, make sure you check out the show notes below. All our social links are there and we read out a lot of the comments that we get on our podcast. So, Brash, you selected this movie the new moon so obviously you'd seen it and you had some opinions about it uh.

Speaker 1: 4:44

So I was so excited originally when this movie was announced because it was going to be that full horror like it was going to like pretty much direct from the comics. It was going to be a lot darker that I think they've lightened it from what the comics sort of were overall still like it still had that sort of horrorish theme, but, um, I still think it was still rated PG, I think, wasn't it? Yeah, it was PG-13. Pg-13, which I was still a little bit surprised about, because they have certain themes in there that I thought would probably make it that sort of M rating. But I also because one of my favorite Marvel characters, maybe even just one of my favorite mutant Marvel characters is magic, and when I heard that she was going to be in it.

Speaker 2: 5:29

I was like hell, yeah, yeah. And might I just say they could not have cast her better. In my opinion, looks wise the way that she was portrayed and in Taylor, joy did a fantastic job playing Ileana Aspudin 100%, yeah, I really hope she does come back in some capacity, just even as a cameo. I think she was the shining star of this movie, but I was the same. I found that this movie wasn't really my cup of tea, as is very well documented on this podcast. I'm not a horror guy. I find them very, very scary.

Speaker 1: 5:58

If it had been I mean really one of them you might not be able to get through it.

Speaker 2: 6:06

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2: 6:06

But you know, apparently Boone designed this film as a psychological horror movie.

Speaker 2: 6:09

So it explores like trauma and isolation, and the kids in the movie are finding their identity which is literally what X-Men characters in the comic books are all about through the most traumatic moments of their life during the X-Men comic books, because they are navigating through their mutations which is obviously a stand-in for puberty as well and all of the different things that are happening to your body at the time and all of the different social connections that you gain and lose during that time.

Speaker 2: 6:35

So this movie does a really good job of actually highlighting that as a primary theme in X-Men comics, which doesn't really happen a lot in superhero movies, but it especially doesn't happen in the old x-men uh movies, the ones that start like hugh jackman and james marsden, things like that.

Speaker 2: 6:49

They kind of skip that entire aspect of the x-men and go more for, like the, the found family team of mutants with abilities, action, superheroes blasting blah, blah, that kind of thing, but they never really explore the characters, which is what I really liked about this movie is that they actually dove into who these people were maybe not to the full extent that some people would have liked, but you were able to see some of those, you know, emphasizing some of the lower sort of consequences of an X-Men movie.

Speaker 2: 7:17

So it was actually said as well that in this movie the kids in the movie were able to talk to each other in ways that mutants in other X-Men movies didn't really talk to each other in that manner, you know. They were actually talking to each other as teenagers, especially during the attic scene that we saw. So for me, that was the thing that stood out to me the most. That was my hot take is that this actually looked at that exploration of trauma, isolation and identity, where the characters could actually explore this mutation that's happening to them, which would be traumatic.

Speaker 1: 7:50

So that explore this mutation that's happening to them, which would be traumatic. So that was that was my big take, and I like how um they used um the character of dr alice played by alicia braga. Um alice braga, sorry um to be sort of like the doctor slash, the psychiatrist person there and which helped like and that helps to is like, instead of just having the kids in this sort of like makeshift xavier school to move on to the next place, it's more of an explorer. It helps the narrative to explore each of their traumas.

Speaker 2: 8:14

Yeah, the mysterious element that she adds is really good because if you're a fan of the comic book, you obviously know the ins and outs of the Essex Corporation and Charles Xavier and the kind of hints that they were dropping through the middle of the movie there with Dr Reyes. But it's also important to note that Dr Reyes in the comic books is actually like a good guy. She plays Forcefield or she's Forcefield, a mutant who's able to develop Forcefield, and she's also a very prominent doctor. So having her in there and the constant references to Charles Xavier was purposeful misdirection and you know what it actually worked on me.

Speaker 2: 8:46

I'm I'm like a, an avid x-men fan and I knew that this was about like some sort of horror elements and nothing was really as it seemed. But it still worked on me because I knew that those characters, I knew who they were and as a result of that, I trusted them because they were x-men that I knew and trusted. So I think that the you know, josh boone leaned into that, being a comic book fan himself, knowing that the people that were actually watching this movie as comic book fans, especially fans of the demon bear saga from 1982 would really appreciate the changes that he made and to this movie and the way that, um, like people who are like, oh, but she's a good guy the way he could get around.

Speaker 1: 9:17

that is because of her employer who has, who has, in fact, many times cloned and copied and made copies of other myths, so she may not even be the real Alice Reyes.

Speaker 2: 9:30

Exactly right and the pin that is on her lapel all the time that you can see. That is something that Mr Sinister usually gives to somebody or it's on their body somewhere in the comic books if they're being controlled by, manipulated, or is a clone of somebody made by Mr Sinister, also known as Nathaniel Essex. So, yeah, lots of things to really enjoy in this movie. What did you think of the blend of genres, Brash, if we're talking about psychological horror and the superhero genre, because I know for some people it was very controversial because it wasn't what they were expecting, and for others it was a breath of fresh air. What were your thoughts?

Speaker 1: 10:09

oh, I, I really loved it. That's why I was really hoping for a more darker. I was hoping for that more because when, like it was first dance, because then they had to stop production and pretty much redo nearly the whole time movie because I had to make it less bright, which was a little bit sad. But I I was so excited because if you're like, look at some of the comics like they are quite they can be quite dark.

Speaker 2: 10:31

Oh yeah, especially the new mutants run. The new mutants run, which was um, primarily written by chris claremont and pencils and inks done by bill sinkowitz. They were the flagship comic, that sort of sped off from the x-men, where they were able to just try new things. So the x-men was always where they would sort of keep it a little bit safe and do all of the x-men things that everybody was expecting. And the new mutants was that spin-off where they could say, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna send them to space and they're gonna meet a extraterrestrial alien called warlock. In this episode they're gonna fight a like a spiritual bear, like they literally just threw things at the audience just to see what stuck, just to see what they could do. And that kind of creative freedom for Chris Claremont and Bill Sinkowitz, who was the artist, was really it was just emboldening for them.

Speaker 2: 11:11

And Bill Sinkowitz is an actual massive fan of the Demon Bear saga. He's the one that drew issue 18, 19, and 20. If you haven't read it, I recommend you and and pick up a copy of it because just for the art style like it's, it was a tonal change at the time and there was just these visceral ink, heavy, impressionistic, vibrant uses of colors. It was juxtaposed with this heavy black and it really sort of had these heavy art lines that showed it was almost like someone was psychotic drawing these pictures, showing these these controversial sort of like realism was was out the window when it came to these comic books and it was like an exaggeration of everything in terms of he used character size, for example, he would draw the sizes of the character in a manner that would show how powerful they were to the audience as opposed to them saying it in dialogue.

Speaker 2: 11:59

And for him to be paired with Chris Claremont was really interesting because he's a very impressionistic artist and Chris Claremont is a very literal and lore heavy comic writer. So that pairing together worked really well for the New Mutants and when we're talking about this Demon Bear saga, I think they adapted it really well also. So I think that a horror superhero movie for the New Mutants was a perfect fit. And when Bill Sinkowitz actually came on as a creative consultant and he looked and talked to Josh Boone, he said, oh, this guy actually gets it. He knows what we're going to try and do when we're going to make a New Mutants comic book. Back in the 80s we actually were trying to go with this kind of horror vibe.

Speaker 1: 12:37

The fact that they wanted to get a darker psychological horror and with the superpowers, and I think, think, like I know some people don't like that blend, but I think that blends perfect, because you've got kids who don't understand their powers, don't understand what's happening to them.

Speaker 1: 12:52

It would be a terrifying thing and, like you see, in like all your yeah, like all the other movies that you see, you've got the x-men that it's a bit more, it's always a bit more lighter and fluffier and more fantastical, whereas in reality, like not being able to touch anyone or fear of just considering them unless you're a psychopath, would be a fine, terrifying.

Speaker 1: 13:14

And that's why I think it was a shame that I wasn't allowed to go sort of that darker path because, like for me, it was like I don't mind horror, I like a bit of horror, and everything was sort of like for me, just like on the edge of being awesome. But it was like I don't mind horror, I like a bit of horror, and everything was sort of like for me, just like on the edge of being awesome, but it was just just that tone down, that enough that I was just like, ah, it's like almost horror enough for me, but it just yeah, never quite got there and that's probably why a lot of the characters didn't get the full expose of who they are, because they couldn't go that dark and and like that was a lot of the. What people didn't like was the fact that it didn't quite explore fully all the characters, but to be fair, they couldn't because they didn't let them go as dark as they probably could have yeah, I agree, yeah, it's, it's never fully expressed for us as well.

Speaker 2: 14:03

And you know, I I watched a couple of interviews with with josh boone and and they said you know they did want to explore this horror and suspense-borne, psychological thriller kind of element of the X-Men, because a lot of the other X-Men movies were very operatic, so they were grand, like you were saying, and they usually had like global consequences. If they weren't going to stop the phoenix force, the literal world would end. But this sort of drilled it right down to what happens to an individual when the thing about them that they thought was true is utterly changed. And that is very compelling to watch when you've got five of these characters that are going through this same sort of change and trauma and they're bonding together to try and get through it, which I think he said it was a mix of Stephen King and John Hughes, which I think is perfectly describing what this movie is and what the New Mutants kind of tone was. So Nate Lee actually said something very poignant and perfect I think, when he was referring to this movie. He said a lot of X-Men movies are very grandiose but what they wanted to do with this movie, the New Mutants was to let it be what it is, and that was a no-costume, no-supervillain, character-driven, psychological, horror-filled movie and in my opinion, I think they pulled that off as best they could in the situation that they had, because they did have some challenges as well, which we'll probably get into a little bit later in the pod. All right, shall we get into our community's thoughts on this movie. Brash Sure, yes, okay.

Speaker 2: 15:36

So on our Reddit our Reddit was a little bit quieter on this movie. For this one we had a couple of people commenting. We have Mickey Flynn on our Reddits that says it was great, and we also have Jugoso2014 says that I liked it better than the last two X-Men movies, but that's not saying much. They're not very positive on the Reddit front. On our threads, we have Dadstunich that says magic was actually awesome and hopes she comes back into the MCU. They highly doubt it. Bobby Reads Comics says they did Cecilia Reyes dirty, like they didn't even cast an actor. That was the right skin tone, and I know that there was a couple of different comments regarding Roberto's casting, sunspot's casting as well, so that was something that sort of surrounded the film. Also, we have Dashiell2077 that says Anya Taylor-Joy was given I'm not Russian and I'm no ear for accents at all. Note perfect as Ileana Rasputin, I agree. I think she was actually perfectly casted. I think she did really well Because at the time, in 2017, she was actually very young. The movie being filmed in 2017 wasn't released until 2020. But at the time, she'd moved on to other projects before then and this was one of her first acting roles.

Speaker 2: 16:47

We have the misanthrope. Runner says that it was forgettable and it felt like it was hacked up in the editing. And we also have walter paisley that says it was fun and the young cast were uniformly good. It's just another superhero movie, so fun is really all that is required. We also had samoliso, who is a regular commenter and also somebody who's requested some of our fandom portly as pics episodes. He says that it was fine. It was sad and didn't anticipate hearing wolf spade talking about masturbation, but that happened too. So, yeah, thank you, samoliso. Uh, so yeah, we've got some definite differences of opinions out there in our hot takes for our community, I remember. If you wanted to join in those and have them being read out on the pod as well, make sure you go to our socials in the show notes below and become a part of the Fandom Portals community. So I think it's safe to say Brash. It sounds to me like you enjoyed the film.

Speaker 1: 17:37

I did, I very much did.

Speaker 2: 17:38

And I did too. I think it was great. Let's jump into our fandom fact face-off. All right, this is where hosts go head-to-head with trivia about the focus media, learning new facts along the way. The host with the least points at the end of the month loses and has to take the winner to an all expenses paid trip to the movie. However, this month we're doing something different. This is a marvel team up, because it's marvel month. Hosts are teaming up to collect 15 points and send a lucky listener to the movies. However, this month we're doing something different. This is a Marvel team-up, because it's Marvel Month. Hosts are teaming up to collect 15 points and send a lucky listener to the movies. That giveaway is open for you right now and all you have to do is go to wwwfandomportalspodcastcom and join our emailing list and hope that we earn 15 points. Brash, do you remember? I?

Speaker 1: 18:20

think we got to. It didn't quite get there, so we got five.

Speaker 2: 18:23

We did. We got to five. We have the potential to get six per episode and we're doing four episodes, so potentially we have the points to get to 24. But last week we only got five, so hopefully this week we get some more for our lucky listeners to be going off to the movies. Remember, if you wanted to join that giveaway, go to wwwphantomportalspodcastcom and join our emailing list. All right, brash, you can go first with your question. What do you got for me?

Speaker 1: 18:48

Okay, so the majority of this film was located at Medfield State Hospital in Massachusetts, and a lot of the cast and crew were unsettled by this. Why is?

Speaker 2: 19:01

that I know the answer to this one. So the Medfield State Hospital was one of Massachusetts' first insane asylums in the area of Boston. Filming at the site was unsettling and crew members reported hearing strange noises and unexplained occurrences during the night shoots and things like that. It was also the set location for Shutter Island, martin Scorsese's film starring Leonardo DiCaprio, mark Ruffalo. So it is known as a very dilapidated building, eerie and containing some very spooky elements of the strange, we might say.

Speaker 1: 19:38

Imagine trying to shoot a horror suicide movie and you're at a place where there's creepy noises and shit going on everywhere.

Speaker 2: 19:45

Yeah, yeah, I watched a behind-the-scenes video where Josh Boone, the director, actually when he would hear some of his crew thinking that they heard a supernatural occurrence, he would run to that site and he would actually try to talk to the supernatural to try and actually comfort the crew and, yeah, obviously try and see if anything would happen, because it would add an element of realism and, you know, a fearfulness to the cast and crew. That would help the movie in the long run. So, yes, Medfield State Hospital very unsettling real world location. It's been used in a few other things as well, but I think the main like gothic style hospital that we can think of is Ashfield Hospital from Shutter Island. So gothic style hospital that we can think of as Ashfield Hospital from Shutter Island. Did I answer?

Speaker 1: 20:28

that question you did. Okay, cool, you smashed it.

Speaker 2: 20:29

I went above and beyond. Very good. We know that this movie was originally slated for release in April of 2018. It, however, faced some unprecedented delays. Why was the new minze delayed so many times before it was released? There are two reasons, mainly.

Speaker 1: 20:51

Well, it wasn't only because it was too dark and they had to reshoot because it was too dark and make it a little bit less dark.

Speaker 2: 20:57

Not quite, but that is a consequence of one of the things that happened. So basically, josh Boone, oh, was it because Disney took over Marvel.

Speaker 1: 21:04

Yes, that was one of the things that happened. So, basically, josh Boone, oh, was it because Disney took over Marvel.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Yes, that was one of the reasons, exactly right. So when Fox was in control, josh Boone made the movie that we see today. He made that movie that we see today because Fox was really holding the reins on what he could do in terms of how much horror he could instill into the movie. However, when Disney bought Fox and they did some test screenings and ran some teaser trailers and if you remember the teaser trailer, that it was so good, it was so good. The Pink Floyd, another Brick in the Wall, that was just perfect. That tested so well with audiences that even Disney was like lean into that horror. So, when they were actually going to go back to do the reshoots, they were encouraging him to do that, which was very awesome.

Speaker 2: 21:49

However, they didn't get the time to do it for the second reason that it was delayed. You know what that was, I was gonna say well, it was around the same time as covid, exactly right. So the covid 19 pandemic stopped this one from being released. The theatrical release was delayed again and it was actually going to be opened in august of 2020. So I did get did get a theatrical release. However, not many people wanted to go and see it because it was the height of the pandemic. Prior to that. It was also moved around because the X-Men movie I think it was Dark Phoenix, the later one. They wanted to move the date of this movie so they didn't coincide. Because when Disney purchased Fox they obviously didn't want to double dip across their movies and split their audience, so based a lot of production delays. But yes, brashy, it's just such a shame.

Speaker 1: 22:29

I think, because I thought it was because Disney bought it. That's why they went less dark.

Speaker 2: 22:35

But if Disney wanted to go more dark, such a shame, yeah, and I think that sort of sits in line with the, the, with the way that they've been going, because if you think of how they didn't really hold back on Daredevil Born Again and they haven't really held back on any of the Deadpool movies in terms of their R rating, because that was the big fear as well when Fox and Sony were bought by Disney, that some of their properties would get dulled down to accommodate a Disney audience. However, disney has been very good at keeping the tone of most of their productions how the audience likes them. But yeah, it was.

Speaker 2: 23:07

It was just a really, really, really big shame that this one it was kind of always seen as the, the ugly stepbrother, you might say, of the, the superhero movies, because nobody really knew what to do with it. They sort of just left it in the background because, as, as you heard, you know, they would prioritize the releases of other movies in their repertoire before they would release the new mutants and then, eventually, they were holding onto it for so long they were just like, okay, we'll drop it in august 2020. As a result of all these delays, they weren't ever able to make those major reshoots, for a couple of reasons, the first one being that the actors were three years older and they weren't teenagers anymore, so it was really difficult for them to do that. But from april 2018 to august 2020 was how long this movie was held in limbo. Basically, pun intended.

Speaker 1: 23:50

It's going to be something great and like cool. If we add some sort of some sort of teasing Wolverine, deadpool, wolverine, these guys that would be cool as well.

Speaker 2: 24:02

I will. You know, with everything happening in the Marvel Universe, I'm not counting it as dead just yet, because there are some characters in here in the X-Men are coming that I would love to see back.

Speaker 1: 24:11

I absolutely would love to see actually all five and then they Like because realistically now they would be older. So, and even though they're older, I still reckon they all sort of look still similar-ish. Yeah, like Maisie hasn't really aged since fucking Game of Thrones, really. No, absolutely, she's still like shorter of stature and everything like that. And I even, out of the joy you still reckon, I reckon she looks a little bit older and a bit more mature, but still looks pretty similar to how she was in the movies, though yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:47

I reckon that and I'm really hoping that they bring magic back, especially since she's made appearances in that Marvel video game that they made. I've got it. I can't remember the name of it. Now where you use cards oh, snap, marvel, snap. I can't remember the name of it now where you use cards, oh, snap, marvel, snap. No, not Marvel Snap. It's the one Midnight Sun.

Speaker 2: 25:03

Right Midnight Sun yes, Midnight Sun.

Speaker 1: 25:05

Yeah, she's prominent in that one, and then she's in New Marvel Rivals and you know, if we're talking about cartoon universes as well.

Speaker 2: 25:13

X-men 97, morph turned into magic in one of the episodes through that as well, so she has made some appearances since the New Mutants. But, yes, I agree, I do hope she returns because, yes, a very big, big star now but a very awesome character to portray on screen, especially with some of the comic books that came later on down. The New Mutants run like Inferno. That is just a really awesome arc, and even the story of Ileana Rasputin in Limbo that's just a really great story as it stands as well. I went to that rabbit hole the other night.

Speaker 1: 25:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:45

We'll probably get into that a little bit later too in the podcast, but we digress. I believe it is your question, brash, and the score so far just to score update everybody is two points to add to our pool. So we've got a total now of seven points, which means we're sort of halfway there. For one of our families to go to the movies on us this month, yeah, all right.

Speaker 1: 26:07

All right, so Mr Sinister was actually going to be in the movie. Do you know who's going?

Speaker 2: 26:12

to portray him. I do, and I actually think it's awesome. It is awesome. It would be such a good casting. He would be an absolute amazing casting. I've loved this guy since. I've seen him in baby driver, but he obviously had a really awesome role in madman as well. We're obviously talking about john ham. What a great casting. His face shape and his everything is so perfect. Yep, absolutely perfect casting. And you know, that's another thing that I hope comes back. Uh, because, yeah, this this had so much potential. And you know, that's another thing that I hope comes back. Uh, because, yeah, this this had so much potential. And you know and he actually did shoots like yeah, they.

Speaker 1: 26:46

Actually he had parts in the film, like he had a part in the film, but then when they did the reshoots they had to cut pretty much him.

Speaker 2: 26:51

Yeah, they were movie yeah, they obviously couldn't do any of the research reshoots to make it make sense, and that was also seen in a couple of the deleted scenes as well If you've got the Blu-ray edition or you can find them online as well. But some of the deleted scenes actually were either some of the horror elements that they wanted to keep in or it was some of the elements that they were keeping in to tie it to a couple of sequel films or into the greater X-Men box universe. So that would have been where it kind of would be placed, but unfortunately again they weren't allowed to have the the time to to make these reshoots. But, john ham, what an amazing choice for mr sinister. All right, my turn. Here we go. All right, here is my question.

Speaker 2: 27:32

We have noted on this podcast, on this very episode, that the uh, the cgi in this movie is actually quite good, considering it's got a budget of $67 million. We know movies that have a budget that is much bigger, that have worse CGI. What is the reason that the CGI was so good and also, which mutant's powers was hardest to visually convey?

Speaker 1: 27:56

This is a hard one. I'm not sure, so I'm going to take a stab at the dark with it. Do you want your clue? Yeah, okay, yeah, actually I'll a hard one. I'm not sure, so I'm going to take a stab at the dark with it. Do you want your clue? Yeah, okay, yeah, actually, I'll take the clue.

Speaker 2: 28:05

All right, so it is, the mutant whose powers were hardest to portray was the one who, pretty much, was the most powerful one of the five, and it was hard to do because there was a lot of things that they had to include, which combined digital environments, creature effects and seamless transitions between dimensions. So obviously it's magic. Yes, it's magic.

Speaker 1: 28:33

And that's who I'll still go against magic, because she has to jump through her portals. She also has to get her left arm whenever she summons a sword, soul sword. And then also you've got.

Speaker 2: 28:46

Lockheed, the dragon and the demon bear at the end as well, and the reason that they were able to work so hard on the CGI was because the movie was delayed so long that they had a very long post-production. So it was really awesome to see because it really paid off in terms of those teleportation sequences near perfect. You could always see a little element of limbo in the background as she was coming to and from different dimensions there. When she was in the end scene and she was flipping over the demon bear and slicing her soul slid through and Lockheed himself just looks absolutely amazing and cute. He needs to come back as well. But yeah, I loved every element of the the cgi in this movie. No notes. I think it was great. I've seen lots of movies that are a thousand times worse with a lot less budget.

Speaker 1: 29:27

So tap on the shoulder for the new mutants cgi department okay, what was, what was significant about this movie being marvel entertainment and marvel entertainment film specifically?

Speaker 2: 29:40

was it that marvel didn't actually have anything to do with making this movie? Not quite.

Speaker 1: 29:48

It's a pretty monumental thing and it's the last time any Marvel movie's done this or had this because of the reasons for it.

Speaker 2: 29:56

I'm pretty sure this has something to do with Stan Lee being the executive producer on the production. Is that?

Speaker 1: 30:02

correct, that is correct. It's the very last Marvel Entertainment film that Stan Lee is the executive producer.

Speaker 2: 30:09

Yes, obviously on account of his passing afterwards, but this is the last one you can see him. This is the last one in the credits that you see his name going through. Okay, last question, here we go. There was, in early drafts of this film, brash in the New Mutants film, a famous Marvel character. That was all Bruce included. Well, yeah, they were, but this is actually a member of the New Mutants as well.

Speaker 2: 30:35

Warlock, yes, but yeah, warlock, the techno-organic alien mutant, was originally scripted until the budget constraints came in, because it would be very hard to portray all of the mutant abilities they were trying to put in, as well as a cyborg in there as well, which had very visceral kind of powers that they'd have to try and put in. Do you know who they actually were in talks with to play Warlock in this movie? I was like it was a strange one for me too. It was. It was Sasha this movie. I was like it was a strange one for me too, it was. It was like Sacha Baron Cohen.

Speaker 2: 31:06

Yes, correct, yeah, you looked at the five cast and then you looked at Sacha Baron Cohen. I suppose you wouldn't actually see him. No, no, he was going to be motion captured in CGI for the most part it never extended beyond initial talks, just because that budget did sit around 67 to 80 million dollars at the time and which which was small even compared to superhero standards. And you know, he was initially going to be almost like that comic relief character to cut through some of the horror elements of the movie at the behest of fox studios. But I think that would have even lessened the the impact of those psychological horror elements that we like so much about this movie as well, so I'm actually glad that they didn't include him in there.

Speaker 2: 31:46

It was actually also rumored that he would appear or Warlock at least would appear in planned sequels. This movie had two planned sequels one that would follow the New Mutants going into a space or alien invasion-like adventure and the third one that was going to be a part of this trilogy was going to be the Inferno saga, which would have been awesome, yeah, but I don't know how I'd feel about the alien invasion, because that just seems like three very distinct, different kind of movies that they were trying to make and tie together.

Speaker 1: 32:13

I suppose, though, it would be in probably perfect new mutant fashion, but I suppose they probably needed if I was to watch this new mutant, and but I suppose they probably needed if, if they're, if I was to watch this new mutant and then then the next one that would go into the invasion, I would find it weird. But if they were, did the new mutants like a sort of introduction to all the characters and then, towards the end, coming to warlock and went into space or whatever, like. I'd find it a bit more realistic, but I wouldn't be able to see him going from this movie as we got it to going to how to spell, like to the invasion.

Speaker 2: 32:47

That'd be a bit weird. I 100 agree. I think it would have been too much of a stretch for us. Uh, in that regard and you know even in the the book that this is based off the demon bear saga in issue 18, 19, and 20, it does cut between elements that are occurring between Danny Moonstar and her team in the Demon Bear and outer space elements with Adam Warlock.

Speaker 2: 33:09

And if you're thinking about it from the perspective of somebody that's reading these, in the 80s they didn't have Marvel Unlimited. At the time you couldn't just go down to the comic book shop and pick up all of the issues that you'd previously had before. You just get the issues that you'd previously had before. You just get the issues that you find. And if you miss and can't find issue 18 of the new mutants, then you literally just have to go by the recap that comes in issue 19.

Speaker 2: 33:26

It wasn't as easily accessible as it was now. So it was. It was kind of out of place to see, yeah, those starfaring elements in the middle of this spiritual demon bear story. But, as I said before, you know that's what they were trying to do with this book. They were just trying to experiment and see where they could go in the 90s with the X-Men, because Chris Claremont was just trying new things, because he ended up being a very influential writer and a flagship man in terms of creating lots of titles for the X-Men and he was just spreading his wings and seeing what stuck.

Speaker 1: 33:58

I would have loved I hope that's something that they might think about in the future but to see these characters when they're older and like in control of their powers, because I'd love to see at this facility being tested on by Cecilia Reyes to see if they could become these killing machines for.

Speaker 2: 34:15

Mr Sinister. So really they were just scratching the surface of what they could do and us, as comic book fans know what they can do and we love to and want to see it on screen. But unfortunately we weren't able to and hopefully we do. But right now we're going to jump into our set secrets segment with a total of six points from that segment. Brash, that means we all got perfect scores and we have a total of 11 points going into our next round of the phantom facts face-off. So we need four more points, not too bad very achievable, but it was probably.

Speaker 1: 34:58

It was pretty hard for me to try and find questions that you probably wouldn't know, because you're I mean, I love x-men. I think you're more in that, even more an x-men fan than I am. X-men is my jam.

Speaker 2: 35:09

Ultimate comic nerd, nerddom, I sit in x-men. It's the earliest thing that I remember reading yeah, yeah, x-men's, my x-men's, my jam.

Speaker 2: 35:19

So yeah, it is a hobby, you might say but yeah, all right, let's jump into our set secrets segment. This is where hosts look behind the scenes of the focus movie to give you all the information on what went right, what went wrong and what was interesting about the way the movie was made. We're talking about the new Mutants movie, made in 2020. And we're also going to look quite deeply here at the Easter eggs that are presented in this movie, because there is some very strong influences from horror movies and there's also some very strong X-Men ties in this movie as well.

Speaker 1: 35:58

I know Nightmare on Elm Street was one of the specifically Nightmare on Elm Street 3. One specifically Nightmare on Elm Street 3 was one of the inspirations the Breakfast Club, if you know me enough, and Once Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Speaker 2: 36:10

Yeah, yeah. So Once Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest was a very claustrophobic sort of psychological thriller movie starring Jack Nicholson, and in a lot of those scenes in the movie they were in almost like therapy sessions, which is what we saw, with these mutants sitting in a circle talking with uh, with Dr Reyes as well during those movies and the the claustrophobic settings that was really kind of confining and added to the tension of this movie was also present in in one of the cookies nest. And you're absolutely right, the Breakfast Club is, you know, that classic 80s movie. They're all in there for detention, they're trapped in there. There's five of them, there's five of these new mutants. I definitely think that Ileana hits the burnout vibe in these ones from the Breakfast Club and, yeah, and you know, roberto fits the jock because in the movies Roberto, or Sunspot, is actually a soccer player as well. I just think that that's the John Hughes connection that they were talking about in this movie as well, with Josh Boone saying that he was very influenced by Stephen King and John Hughes and he also said that he was especially influenced by it and Stand by Me as well, which is another sort of coming of age flick where, you know, children and teenagers become friends in adult situations. That was definitely a big influence in it as well.

Speaker 2: 37:27

And what was the other one you said? Nightmare on Elm Street. Nightmare on Elm Street 3. Yeah, the Dream Warriors. Yeah, the Dream Warriors, danny's powers being nightmare fueled, you might say. Is, you know, people reliving their deepest fears, very reminiscent of Freddy Krueueger, one of our favorite horror movie villains I've heard I've not, I'm not a horror guy, but yeah, that that dream warrior one. Apparently they're all in a like a dream sequence and all of them have to work together to try and beat freddy and get out of the dream sequence, which is kind of very similar to how they adapted this demon bear that was then actually physically attacking people, not only haunting people's psychological dreams as well.

Speaker 1: 38:06

And they had to band together to fight the evil dream.

Speaker 2: 38:09

Yep, that's it. Alright, we also have the Shining. There were some elements of the Shining in this movie as well, also starring Jack Nicholson. Yeah, the Shining, yeah, yeah. A lot of the long hallways and the flickering lights were influenced by the shining. Especially the scene where you see Sam and Ileana and a lot of the Smiley Men sort of closing in on them. That long shots of the hallways was influenced by the shining. And also the way Ileana would talk to her puppet yeah, like the little girl, yeah, yeah, was very reminiscent of yeah, danny, yeah, and he was talking in Tony's voice with a finger. Yeah, I think Annie Taylor-Joy does that with the Lockheed puppet as well. So that was influenced by the Shining.

Speaker 2: 38:52

Now on the TV, brash in the facility, these five teenagers would always watch a show behind them. Do you remember what it was? It was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Buffy the Vampire Slayer, yes, and Josh Boone has gone on record to say that he is an absolute fanatic of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Speaker 2: 39:09

The two episodes that feature number one was the Body, and that was an episode that featured one of the first on-screen kisses from two female individuals. That was obviously foreshadowing the kiss that happened between Danny and Rain in this movie and then later on you saw the episode titled Hush, which was a Buffy episode where it was mostly silent and they were facing these evil villains called the gentlemen, which were the look of them was very much inspired by all the smiley men were very much inspired by the gentlemen from the Buffy movies and franchise. So there was that connection there as well and, comic book wise, the Smiley Men were actually very heavily influenced by a anti-mutant force called the Right and they always wore those smiley masks and they were into things like human trafficking and doing things to mutants that weren't really human rights violations, you might say, and trading them across borders, using them as sources of power. So yeah, the right is what influenced those Miley men in Ileana's backstory as well.

Speaker 1: 40:17

Well, lockie was in the movie, even though realistically, lockie is actually meant to be a pet of Kitty Pryde's, not of Ileana's. But then, because Ileana and Kitty Pryde were such good friends, lockheed would switch person depending on who was more prominent in the comic at the time. At the same time, lockheed would be with Ileana, and sometimes Lockheed would be with Kitty Pryde because they were best friends.

Speaker 2: 40:46

Yeah it kid would be with uh key pride because they're their best friends. Yeah, it also played to the connection of iliana rasputin obviously being colossus's sister and kitty pride having a long-standing relationship with colossus in the x-men films. So even that sort of family connection in terms of sister-in-law situation, lockheed was the there's the device to that. You might say iliana as well. When she was fighting the demon bear, she referenced two particular movies, not horror movies, and it was within like seconds of each other. Do you remember what that was?

Speaker 1: 41:08

no, I, I do, actually I remember, I remember it, but like because I watched it like two months ago and now I've forgotten she goes lions and tines.

Speaker 2: 41:14

Oh yeah, and that's from wizard of oz. And in that same line she called him Yogi Bear, which is from the cartoon Yogi Bear, in terms of the X-Men references in this movie.

Speaker 1: 41:27

Yeah, Xavier, obviously when they're saying, oh, we're going to be an X-Man.

Speaker 2: 41:33

Yeah, so that was interesting to me because it suggests that in this universe those kids know who the X-Men are, they're famous, which tells me that, canonically. If they're talking about where this would be set, it's obviously set before the movie of Logan, which was made in 2029, because that's when all the X-Men have obviously been destroyed and mutants are no longer occurring. Naturally They've been poisoned by humanity. It may occur sometime after the Dark Phoenix restored timeline in 2024, so it hits somewhere in between those two levels.

Speaker 1: 42:03

Well, joss Brum was saying that it was meant to be canonically set during X-Men Apocalypse. Well, he wanted it to, but couldn't. Because they wanted James McAvoy and Alexander Shipp to come in as Storm Storm and Versa X to be a part of it, but they couldn't because of all the rewriting and being COVID-ish era. Yep.

Speaker 2: 42:29

They couldn't do it. Yeah, and you know Raya's continually saying this is the man I work for, or my superior has a school for gifted youngsters. Using that specific language that everybody knows is associated with Charles Xavier is purposefully misleading to X-Men fans. And even there was a scene when they're talking in the attic and Roberto Sunspot is actually wheeling himself on a wheelchair at the time and they say who do you think's in charge of all of this? And he says can't you tell? And he does this gesture to his hand, with his hand to his temple, which we know is synonymous with Charles Xavier as well. So they're very familiar with the X-Men. But that also is a way to mislead the audience in saying these characters think that Charles Xavier is in charge and they're also eventually going to be X-Men, when in fact the real villain was Mr Sinister.

Speaker 2: 43:14

Throughout the movie the Essex Corp branding is seen throughout. So on the computer systems obviously you see the Essex Corp, even the actual hospital name, which was Milbury Hospital. Yeah, newbury, newbury, milbury. Yeah, nathaniel Milbury was an alias of Nathaniel Essex, who was Mr Sinister as well. So that's the very first little Easter egg that you get from Mr Sinister. We talked earlier about the pin as well with the diamond signal. That Essex corp logo also occurred at the end in one of the end credit scenes of the earlier x-men movies where the dna is being taken. So there are a lot of those sort of homages you might say back to that. That villain that we have never really gotten, he's the biggest villain that we haven't gotten in a live action x-men movie yet. So I think in this MCU duration he's going to be the one that is coming at us.

Speaker 1: 44:05

Mr Sinister usually is one of the biggest. Yeah, he's like the Doctor Doom of X-Men.

Speaker 2: 44:12

Yeah, he's very responsible for a lot of our favorite heroes. Turning to the dark side, you might say, in X-Men 97, he is responsible for Cable's techno-organic virus. He's extremely obsessed with the Summers lineage as well as the Greys lineage and having those two together is just like a scientist's wet dream, you might say, for him. He just loves seeing those two genealogies mixed together to see what mutant combinations can come from that he's responsible for. In an alternate timeline, dr Henry McCoy Beast becoming Dark Beast and actually going further down the rabbit hole of a dark scientific sort of exploration of his abilities as well. He's always associated with turning those good heroes bad, which is very interesting when it comes to the MCU because I'm wondering how he's going to come into the fold.

Speaker 2: 45:05

But in terms of this New Mutants movie, he's definitely the one behind the scenes Longest drinks Never fully seen, and you know it comes to the point on the computer screen where it says you know more tests required for Danny Moonstar's powers, but then eventually it gets to exterminate more trouble than she's worth. Basically yeah. And then it signs off with the Essex Corporation, which is the big twist and the big reveal. I will say that that was a little bit. It wasn't such a big twist and a reveal for me because obviously I'm very familiar with this and I think for people that aren't familiar with the comics they'll see okay.

Speaker 1: 45:38

Essex Corporation that aren't familiar with the comics they'll see. Okay, that's cool. Yeah, because they won't know, doctor's there.

Speaker 2: 45:42

They won't know. It's sinister. But for people like myself and you who know that kind of thing, you know that there's this looming fear up in the sky, up in the background, who's very dangerous, who could appear but also is running a facility like this. That's very exciting and very enticing for us as viewers because it keeps us hooked and engaged. They're in a bad situation now, but it could definitely get worse, and I think that definitely gets lost if you're not familiar with the lore of X-Men.

Speaker 1: 46:06

Yeah, I would have liked a sort of subtle hint to Colossus, like not even saying the name, but like Iliad, like at one point when she's telling them that they're trapped in there and they can't escape, at, like the start, what she's saying you can't leave, you're a bird in a cage, blah, blah. Like something, maybe even just dropping um, uh, don't worry, my brother will find me, or something like that. Some sort of some sort of hint, because obviously her brother would be part of x-men and her being in this place and her brother being x-men, and then being fooled that this is an x-men sort of free facility, like she would probably have some sort of thought that I am, my brother's an X-Men, surely like. And this being an X-Men facility, surely at some point he'll come because he knows I'm here.

Speaker 2: 46:47

Yeah, that's also probably one of the biggest criticisms that critics had, obviously connecting Ileana and Peter, peter Rasputin, colossus being her brother. There are a couple of ways you can explain it. If you wanted no-transcript, it safe. But I definitely think it would have been awesome for fans, awesome for us, especially seeing colossus in the deadpool movie yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:33

So I mean like she's actually directly like, say, like peter or colossus ring lights. But if, if she just says, like just mentioned my brother, my brother or something like that, um, it would just uh, it was just.

Speaker 2: 47:44

We would like to say a subtle nod to all the x-men fans like oh, we know who you're talking about yeah, exactly, it's always good when they do that, hey, because you feel like you're part of the the in crowd and that's what you go home and you look up, you know when you when you're not in in that sort of situation where you know it.

Speaker 2: 47:58

But one of the last ones that I'll bring up for this part of the set secrets segment is there was footage used in this movie that was not used in the Logan movie.

Speaker 2: 48:08

So the Logan movie obviously had footage shot on a mobile phone of of kids being fermented on and pulled in various different directions and tested, and a young Daphne Keene is actually visible in some of the scenes in this New Mutants movie, which was another little X-Men easter egg, showing some, some of the footage from Logan that Danny Moonstar saw when she was being drugged by Dr Reyes and her powers began to kick him. Oh, they're all the easter eggs that you might have missed. They're all the easter eggs that you might have saw from the New Mutants. But there's a lot to see, a lot of inspirations and also a lot of tidbits from the x-men for for fans like us to dive into, which is kind of why I liked it. It was just enough for me, without it being overbearing, because you know when they try to just shove it down your throat throw it to me and the whole thing just becomes a fan service instead of an actual movie exactly.

Speaker 2: 48:57

I think they didn't compromise the story in terms of what they were doing here. I think what they were doing complemented the story, added a little bit more for those fans. However, I'd probably like to talk to somebody who wasn't so associated with the comics to see what they thought of some of those pretty important plot elements. Hanging on the fact that you did need to know who Nathaniel Essex was. Know that the stakes are pretty high here. That would have been interesting for me because I think that would have been a big flaw in the movie if you didn't know, and it may have affected my rating if I didn't, but I do, so my rating's high.

Speaker 1: 49:26

My thought going into it is like the whole time, because most people at least know who the X-Men are and especially watching this, people who take told to kill Mirage.

Speaker 2: 49:49

That's sort of when it's like ooh, yeah, that's when the penny drops, that's when the twist happens in the second act.

Speaker 1: 49:55

And then they're like oh, maybe these aren't, maybe this is the next day, maybe these aren't good guys. Yeah, so I think if for someone who's not overly accustomed like that is enough of the twist to be like, oh no, they're not in a safe space.

Speaker 2: 50:12

They're in a fucking, but not safe space. Yeah, like a like a mental institution that's definitely going to do them harm and I, I do, uh, also think.

Speaker 1: 50:18

Um, now I'm thinking about it and thinking about the shining, because I have you seen the shining?

Speaker 2: 50:23

I haven't, but I've seen lots of clips of the shining out of context and that is why I know.

Speaker 1: 50:28

So this you'll see. Like at one one point the mother is sort of covered in blood and I was just thinking that, dr Razz, when she gets cut up by Wolfbane and how she looks, I'm like she looks reminiscent of how the mother looked in the movie, just like sort of blood just all down the face and everything, and I was like huh.

Speaker 2: 50:48

Yeah, I also saw in a deleted scene as well that was pretty much ripped straight from. Actually there were two scenes ripped directly from from some horror movies one from a nightmare on elm street three where uh, danny's in the solitary confinement cell and you can see the faces beginning to push through the walls. That is a direct scene from nightmare on elm street three. So I've read. And there's a scene from Psycho as well, ripped straight from Psycho Maisie Williams in a shower screaming when the Reverend is coming towards her. That's a shot-for-shot remake from Psycho as well. So even more sort of history.

Speaker 2: 51:22

That's all this stuff got me because one of the posters for the movie was all their faces coming through the wall Very creepy, but yeah, unfortunately that was one of the scenes that they they cut and out of all of those sort of horror movie flick scenes, that one okay, like that that wouldn't be as scary to me as seeing some of the other things. But we digress. Let's move on to our character spotlight segment. All right, so this is our popcorn perspectives character spotlight, where we dive into standout characters from the movie. Each host picks their favorite and takes a closer look at how they evolve through the story. We broke down the character's journey and give our personal take on why this character deserves your attention.

Speaker 2: 52:00

This week, brash, you had Magic you did played by Anya Taylor-Joy, and I had the character of Danny Moonstar, or Mirage, also known as Psyche, played. I had the character of Danny Moonstar, or Mirage, also known as Psyche, played by Blue Hunt. You're going to go first today, brash, you're going to tell us all about Magic. She is definitely one of the more powerhouse-like characters in this movie and also one of my Marvel rival mates. She is annoying to verse in Marvel Rivals I'll say that Her and also Iron Fist Anyone that gets up close and personal. But she also, yeah, she has that added ability, where she can just teleport away.

Speaker 1: 52:35

Yeah, 100%, so good, but I bear this. So, as Hela Joy plays, obviously, magic, ileana Rasputina, who is the sister of Colossus in the comics Not mentioned in the movie, unfortunately, but she is Deal with it. So in the comic she's had a like the movie, troubled upbringing. In the movie she appears to have been caught by the spy men who are from the group that used to try and use the riot, that use all the mutants for their own personal gain, even though they despise them also, who are from the group that used to try and use the Rite, that use all the mutants for their own personal gain, even though they despise them also. But that's what people do when they hate things, they use them. Yep, I think, even though they changed the backstory a little bit for Magic, she still is the same type of character and I think Anne played it really well because she is the very like sort of in the comics she is a bit of a smile, yeah, yeah, she's married in volatile and um, yeah, and she pretty much plays. If, when I was, when I was reading the comics of magic and then watching our tale of joy, I was like damn, that's like almost like, yeah, taken from directly from the paper of how she acts and even though she isn't german, uh, also russian, um, her russian accent. I'm not no linguist person or anything like that, but um, I think she's done a terrific job, um, trying to capture that sort of accent accent and she is known for doing those sort of accents. Just like um in the newest movie. She's in gorge.

Speaker 1: 54:15

The sort of transformation she goes through. She in this movie she goes like from the get-go, from straight up, she was the mean girl. The new girl came she said look, the gate's open, you can run if you want to. And yeah, let danny ran full steam into the force field and like, when she's talking to the Lockheed puppet and he's like, what's that Lockheed? You hate her, me too. And then, and like we bumped into her and like especially, yeah, she was very, very standoffish with Danny.

Speaker 1: 54:46

Yeah, a lot at the start. And you see a slow progress. You see her start to sort of warm up to all the characters, especially because each of them sort of, even though they know a bit about each other, as because wolf bane explains to dan some of the backstories of some people to her, but she doesn't really know everyone's stories as they all, especially when they're up in the attic and they start doing this club moment. Um, they start learning a bit more about each other. I think she finds some sort of kindred ship with them that, oh, hang on, she's probably not the only one who's had it a bit rough yeah, and I think that's that's very apparent.

Speaker 2: 55:25

When she's sitting there on the lie detector test and she said they say you know how many men have you killed, or something along those lines, and she, she reveals to them how many people she's actually ended the lives of, and you know they're shocked. But they still want to hang out with her after that and you know that's kind of comforting for her.

Speaker 1: 55:39

I guess you could say well, and yeah, you can see it, because when she tells them she sort of has this sort of like, she's like a like, especially, she's all those yeah, yeah, and she's like uh, and it's like you can see it on her face that she's sitting there. She's like all right. Now, here is the moment where everyone disconnects from me, runs away from me, and then they don't, and then you sort of see her face. You can see her face sort of shift from that smirk to the oh yeah, they're not like calling me a murderer or they're not scared of me or running away. And I think that's really big for her because all she's really known is well being fucking kept as a prisoner and then sold and used and used and abused and um by these.

Speaker 1: 56:26

When, like, and her depiction that daddy brings forth from her memories of the Smiley man, like they're like a Splendor man, creepy kind of vibe, terrifying, and you'd think that in With the Mask that, like they said, from the right, then they look like they would be the right, because it's the only really comic related thing I can think of. That's similar. Because it's the only really comic-related thing I can think of. That's quite similar. But the fact that they're not just men by the mask, they're full-on creatures long, creepy, slender fingers with the long nails. The mask is like. You can see. It's a mask. There's also the face and like the sharp teeth yeah, it's like.

Speaker 2: 57:09

She associates them with a monstrous entity and not human at all, which is obviously what she did as a survival tactic to go through that abuse that she went through.

Speaker 1: 57:18

Yeah, they weren't actually people.

Speaker 2: 57:20

They were just monsters that she had to run from yeah, faceless as well, which was the important part with her. But yeah, I definitely think she masks her pain with cruelty at the start. She's this character that projects this confidence, like you said, because internally she's completely haunted and it's obviously projected outward by. She's kind of frozen in this childlike fantasy state with Lockheed. She's very protective of that puppet, she talks to it like it's her only friend and that is very common and it reflects like disassociation and psychological scarring with her character, which is like and Anya played it perfectly and what little we did get from this backstory that we've given with magic. It's very obvious that she's the character that is obviously putting up this emotional wall to stop people. And I love what you said about how there is a moment where she you can see it starting to come down, because it definitely defines her in the later part of the movie.

Speaker 1: 58:17

Yeah, and I think a very winging part of the movie is when they get sent to isolation, her and Danny Yep, and the first thing, like once she's all like big notes, until she gets into that room and when the door's closed and everything shut up, you see her when she gets into the bed. She gets in there and curls into a ball, yeah, with the puppet, and they're sitting there like basically face to face with the lucky puppet and is sort of like trying to show up, because I think, um, as much as she wants to get off that gravitas, her being alone and isolated in a tiny room is probably the most scariest thing for her.

Speaker 2: 58:58

Yeah, yeah, four walls no escape.

Speaker 1: 59:00

No escape Pretty much probably what she had to deal with when she was a child locked in a room, because when you see the nightmares of her when she was younger, you see her in a, in the same position in um, like in a cot stranded with the creepy smiley men looming over the top, and so I think being in that isolation room was as tough as she was trying to put on like the tough act. As soon as she was alone there, she was extremely vulnerable and just tightened up and just curled into that field position and there I think that that was a um, looking at that moment was a moment when because all of you seen her so far is that she was a bitch. And then you see this part and you're like, oh damn, like there's something else beneath the surface I kind of like the other manifestations of her powers as well.

Speaker 2: 59:50

Obviously she's got that, uh, teleporting ability to escape the reality. That it's almost like all of these mutant abilities she has originates from her trauma. So she's got the teleporting ability to get her out of danger whenever she feels like she's in it. And then she's got this extremely armored exterior along her arm and that can almost be seen as like like you know how some people, when they've been hurt, they put on a protective outer coat. They don't want anybody to see the gooeyness that's inside or the hurt that's inside, so they put on this armor that everybody sees like. She's got that metallic plating across her arm and she's also got her soul sword as well. Now, later on in the movie she obviously uses those two abilities in an offensive, attacking sort of manner, and I think that's also very poignant as well, because she shows these signs of vulnerability to the other members of the facility and then she gets extremely loyal to them, like really loyal, straight up, really quick.

Speaker 1: 1:00:41

So she creates those bonds and then she ends up fighting for them and without her they would have been very poorly situated and I kind of feel like when she was younger she was taken by the right and when she was really young, I kind of have a feeling, because you don't really know their ages realistically, technically. Well, I know with Anya's character with magic, you don't really know, but I know with angela's character with magic, you don't really know her age and to me she always seemed like the older one, along with um sunspot, yep, um, they seem like the oldest, and then possibly also um sam sam as well. They seem like older, like older teens. Even if, if iliana was say like 17, possibly going on 18, even better, 18 year ish, and if she was say like six, seven, when she was captured, there is a fair few years where it could go into her actual backstory of when she was put into uh limbo, into went to limbo and that's where she and learned how to use the sword and that could be how, like, she got revenge on the uh right, possibly, and how she ended up killing 18 men.

Speaker 1: 1:01:58

So there is that possibility of her backstory still being sort of comic related and that's sort of how she knows, because it was even cool to see whenever she went to the portal. You could see into the portal and see the background. See, there's like weird sort of landscape, yeah, like a lot of filled, yeah, and I thought that was a um a really good. It's not like just like a um dr strange portal where it sort of, yeah, until it opens up, you see the other side and you just like step through like it is. As soon as it opens up, you see it's like different landscape and every time she opened up it was sort of like a little bit different and I like thought that was a really good little tidbit for her abilities. And then when you actually see Lockheed, that was so cute because Lockheed was so cute he was.

Speaker 2: 1:02:39

He was. That. That was a highlight at the end of the movie when he started moving. I knew it was like her imagination, but even so, even the CGI on that was like it was pinpoint, perfect. I thought when they were going to do that it would be really jittery, but it was really really awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:02:51

And also, you know, seeing her go through that final battle, one of the famous line at the end, when she goes to to do that she, she says, you know, take Danny to a safe place and I'll take care of this bear. And then then rain says, uh, yeah, he's right, it's magic. And then eliana says, yeah, oh my, that. That line there like obviously mic drop moment, but that's ripped straight from the demon bear comic book. That is exactly what she says.

Speaker 2: 1:03:24

She says I am also magic and she in the comic book is the one that defeats the demon bear, also because she has the power to do it with the soul sword, yeah, extremely powerful artifact that she obviously gets as part of her journey through limbo, being imprisoned by alaska, alaska through there. Uh, but yeah, I think that that, that last part, that line, is where she shifted from being this vulnerable, childlike, traumatized, emotionally walled off, mutant to now. She's a heroic warrior, grounded in solidarity with the friends that she's made, and she's on the journey of self-acceptance now because she's using her abilities to help people she loves and also stepping into that leadership role, exactly, yeah, as probably the only person who actually has like, because it seems to me like, as much as she's closed off, worn off, she has the most control over her abilities compared to everyone else.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

Yeah, I think that also makes sense because in X-Men, lore, mutants develop their abilities through a traumatic moment or through puberty, and because she suffered a traumatic moment so young, obviously her mutant ability is manifested a lot earlier, giving her more time to master them. So she's definitely in more control of them, for sure, and I think they portray that really well in this new mutants movie.

Speaker 1: 1:04:41

Yeah, she's that protector and well, another reason why I think, after the ordeal with the spying men, that's still traumatized though, obviously because, like anything that happens to you that young will continue to traumatize you well into adulthood the fact that, like she had this whole sword, like that that's all part of her journey. She had in limbo and like, like her saying that she's magic is also on the fact that not only is she a mutant, she's a sorceress and has that ability to use magic which I think defines for me, even though that might not be what they were going for in my mind that's how, that's what happened to her. So she had a traumatic experience when she was younger. Then she had that stint in Limbo, but something might have happened. And instead of, like, say, in the comics where Kitty, something might have happened and instead of like, say, in the comics where kitty pride pulls her out of limbo when she escapes, she could have been pulled out and down by, like, dr reyes yeah, yeah, because that's the other thing we're not got.

Speaker 2: 1:05:42

We haven't gotten on any of the characters is how they actually got to the facility. Yeah, and I think is we all just assume they got there the same way, danny, they had a traumatic event. They ended up being unconscious and then brought to the facility by a mysterious superior who knows when, to find people when their mutant abilities originate. So, yeah, I think that that's a. Really. I also thought the same thing in terms of Eliana's trips to Limbo.

Speaker 1: 1:06:08

I think she also was obviously becoming more proficient with sorcery while she was there as well, and because I don't see her being in that facility, since she was that young age. Yep, like that for me seems like for her to be, because that would have been like, especially if she is that like 16, 17, 18 year old, that would be like what 17, 18-year-old, that would be like what 10, 12 years of being in this place, and like at some point you have to be like what is this place again?

Speaker 2: 1:06:37

Yeah, I get the feeling from all of them that a lot of them haven't been there for very long at all.

Speaker 1: 1:06:44

Yeah, like Sam would have been the second, probably earliest, which was Danny.

Speaker 2: 1:06:52

He had to have been old enough to work when he'd got there because obviously his accident happened at a work site in the mineshaft, with his father there. And then, if you're talking about Roberto, that was also another link to the X-Men. We didn't go through in the set secrets because his parents are members of the Hellfire Club, which is basically a really prominent villain of the X-Men, and their little underling team is called the Hellions, and the Hellions and the New Mutants are like the equivalent of the Teen Titans. They're bashing each other all the time. So that was the little tie-in there, and apparently Antonio Banderas was in talks to play his father until obviously, sequels didn't come through, but that would have tied it to the grand X-Men universe as well. But, as we were saying, I think that none of them had been there for very long, because if they started to figure things out, it was Danny's arrival that really kickstarted it and really got their suspicions arisen to the fact that things aren't right here.

Speaker 1: 1:07:46

It was brought on by a demon bear that got them from nightmare powers, my nightmare powers, but yeah, yeah, main question, like, oh, because they were, it was just a normal hospital for them before they rocked up and then, when she started up and brought the nightmares with her, it sort of turned into a bit of a hellscape for him. Oh, yeah and um yeah, and sort of being ray as being the only person there. It got too much further. Handle all these young mutants that are now just like no, we have to get the fuck out of here that was also suspicious, ray, as being the only one there.

Speaker 2: 1:08:22

It was. Either you know, as deadpool would say, the network couldn't afford another x-man, yeah, or you know too it was. It's a secret facility that not many people know about and she's there housing these five mutants on her own. Like, at what number does the ratio increase in supervision to get two mutants there as supervision? You know, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:08:40

And the powers being the force field, basically trapping them in and not letting others in. Yeah, it was more of like ah okay, this is meant to be a friendly, nice place and you're basically trapping these people here yeah, I, I loved at the end when all five of them began like they had their bags packed, they were walking out together.

Speaker 2: 1:08:59

That was very breakfast club as well, yeah, and you know, at the end of breakfast club there's that thing to do. Yep, I'm a famous sort of moment that's done by by judd n Nelson in that moment, and I thought one of them was going to do it I really did and then you see Maisie Williams just go and adjust her hair and I was like, oh, is she no?

Speaker 1: 1:09:20

I thought maybe Roberto would have done it. Oh, yeah, yeah, or maybe even Sam, I think that Anya Taylor-Joy's performance in this was absolutely amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:09:32

I put it down as one of the highlights in my review for this. She was really great.

Speaker 1: 1:09:35

Of all the cast, she was the most closest and probably the perfect casting for her role. I agree, like 100%.

Speaker 2: 1:09:45

Yeah, I agree, if we're going to rate her 5 out of 5. Oh, 100%, 5 out of 5. Yeah, couldn't get any better. All right, let's go on to my character, who is Danny Moonstar, who is also known as Mirage, who is also known as Psyche and played by Blue Hunt.

Speaker 2: 1:09:59

Now, danny Moonstar is a Cheyenne woman. She is also, in the comics, a Valkyrie woman and she's also an American and a Krakoan, so she's always this mutant that's worn many, many hats in the comics and she does actually spend a lot of time in the comics depowered. So a lot of the time through the early 2000s she is a depowered mutant but still allowed to hang around the mutant facilities as a teacher, so she does get that sort of respect through there as well. And then in the latest run, in the 2019 run, she actually is repowered and becomes the leader of the new mutants again and she's sort of the team's moral compass and guide and we do start to get a few of those sorts of uh inclinations in this movie as well. But we start this movie with her being the emotional and narrative center of this movie. She's the main character and the demon bear that is rife throughout. This movie brings a rich cultural and mythological symbolism to this story that we're seeing, and the demon bear is really like a manifestation of both her own grief and also her powers coming to fruition. So her powers is that she's able to manifest the fears and desires of others into psychic projections, and sometimes she can manifest them into physical projections as well. And she actually this character, serves as the catalyst for a lot of the horror elements in this film.

Speaker 2: 1:11:20

In the comics, in the 1982 comics, she also explores themes of trauma and identity and I think that's also rife throughout this part of the movie as well. She's constantly on the run from the trauma that she faced having her tribe be destroyed, and then obviously the guilt associated with the wondering that she may be responsible for that. So that clashes with her identity as well in these moments in the film and creates this almost fearful, trauma-like blockade that is represented by the demon bear that comes out to get everybody as well. In the comic books the demon bear is actually afraid of Danny Moonstar and Danny Moonstar is afraid of the demon bear. So it's that reciprocal relationship of fear that if you feed it it grows. But obviously you are also the only one who can conquer your own fears, you can get external help, but through this movie Danny learns you do need external help to be able to conquer your fears, but in the end it's got to be you that does it as well.

Speaker 2: 1:12:23

Her role in this movie is almost like we'll call her the audience surrogate. She's the one that learns things as we do. She's the one who drives a lot of the narrative. She's quiet a lot of the time and she does create that quick bond with Rain Sinclair Wolfsbane as well. And that relationship is also apparent in the comic books as well. Not a romantic relationship in the comic books, however.

Speaker 2: 1:12:47

Josh Boone thought that he wanted to emulate Joss Whedon in that moment in in the buffy franchise, where he had a romantic same-sex relationship on on screen, but also he he wanted to dial that relationship up to you know, 11, you might say, or up to 10, and you can kind of read it through that lens even in the 80s comics as well. But it was always associated with the Cheyenne's affinity or connectedness to nature and animals and Wolfsbane obviously being a character that is natural and native, as a wolf would be. But I think I liked their connection in this movie. I thought it felt like a nice place of comfort and I thought that it was good that she connected with Rain Sinclair early because it gave us as an audience obviously another bond for her to have. But it started to catalyze the fact that these five are actually getting closer and it's not just five individuals that are trying to face these problems all by themselves. And it was interesting to see as well that Rain Sinclair was like. She was friends with everybody Basically. They all really really really liked her with danny.

Speaker 2: 1:13:55

Her inability to control her fear-based powers is probably what caused a lot of the chaos in the movie and, yeah, her journey does represent that inherited depressed grief but is also like a metaphorical and literal confrontation with with fear throughout the movie and she grapples with survivor's guilt as well from an unknown unknowable really nature of her gift.

Speaker 2: 1:14:22

That occurs and her turning point in this movie comes when she chooses to face the beast at the end instead of runs from it. She's obviously drugged and all her friends stand up for her in that moment, being extremely loyal and confronting the fear which is evident in the comics as well. But what this movie does that the comics don't is that in the comic books in the Demon Bear run. All of Danny Moonstar's teammates defeat the Demon Bear and Danny wakes up and thanks them for it, whereas in this movie they really help her along the journey and she's the one that actually gets the courage in the end and transforms her fear from a destructive force into a source of strength, and she ends up reclaiming agency over both her powers and her identity. So I really like the character of Danny in this. I think Blue Hunt played it really really well. I don't think she's had many other roles in movies that I saw.

Speaker 1: 1:15:16

No, I don't think so. Oh, she was in the originals.

Speaker 2: 1:15:19

She had a six-episode run in the originals as the Hollow in Ardu, but before that nothing really. And I think that in the comics at the end of this arc, danny Moonstar is actually paralyzed from trying to attack the bear on her own and getting absolutely mauled for it and a lot of the last issue. She's obviously in the hospital and the doctors take the time to try and fix her up while her friends battle the demon bear on her behalf. But I think that is also a good metaphor for trying to go through these challenges alone, which I think she did a really good job of sort of coming to that conclusion in the end. And my favorite quote that she presented from this movie is the opening and closing when she's talking about the two yeah, that's such a good one, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:16:13

The two bears from the Native American proverb where there's two bears in every person and one is everything that's good and the other one is everything that's evil.

Speaker 2: 1:16:21

And then you know. That's where the quote stops at the start of the movie. But at the end we get the last bit of the quote where she says you know which one wins, and then she says you know which one wins, and then she says the one you feed, yeah, exactly right, that's such, yeah, that's such powerful, yeah, and I think that epitomizes her arc really, really well and moves her into that source of strength which mirrors the comics, where she ends up being a moral compass and a guide. So I think Danny Moonstar, played by Blue Hunt, really well done in this movie, and I think her journey journey written by Chris Claremont in the comics but also written by Josh Boone in this movie was very loyal to the origins and also it adapted enough for us to see it in a new light, including elements of the romance with Rain Sinclair and also elements of her taking agency, of her own journey with the demon bear. I liked it.

Speaker 1: 1:17:11

But her character in itself, because in the comics she takes on more of a leadership role?

Speaker 2: 1:17:17

Yeah, she does in the later parts of the New Mutants In the beginning. It wasn't until this arc, the demon bear arc, where she really sort of started to do it afterwards.

Speaker 1: 1:17:26

I do like that they're all in the same sort of, they're all at the same level on themselves, they're all like at the same level on themselves and sort of find that sort of and do it together Together. Yeah, yeah, I like that Because I don't. I probably wouldn't have liked it as much if there was someone who just took charge because, like, whenever there's like, or whenever you're in a new group, like don't, we'll mainly just go, I'm in charge. Yeah, like don't, will mainly just go, I'm in charge. Yeah, usually that person is like why the fuck are you in charge? Yeah, what gives you the right to be in charge? And then the only person I could see sort of become sort of like in that leadership role was only Ileana at the end, because she, full on, was just like everyone, stand back, I'm going to protect you, I'll fight the bear, you just get everyone else in safety. And it sort of stood up.

Speaker 2: 1:18:10

Yeah, even then, I think leadership comes in many, many forms and Ileana definitely takes that protective style of leadership. But I think even Rain Sinclair being very in touch with everybody's emotions and feelings and making sure everybody's okay and being there when people feel like they need a shoulder to cry and that's a form of leadership as well. Being the strategic mind in a situation where you know when to run and you know when to cry, and that's a form of leadership as well. Being the strategic mind in a situation where you know when to run and you know when to fight, that's kind of a good element of leadership as well.

Speaker 2: 1:18:36

And that's what I love about the X-Men is that every single time a new book comes out, I love to see how the writers actually come up with the way that a team is made up altogether, and sometimes they do it by ability. So they need a big, strong guy and they need somebody that's also got some passive psychic powers, and then they also need somebody who has the elemental power, and sometimes they also do it by personality, which is the ones that I like more, and I think that in this movie, when these five characters came together, and also in the comics, when these five characters came together, their abilities were very niche and when the New Mutants actually started started, everybody sort of looked at these people with the abilities. You know danny moon star having dream projection, because magic wasn't in the original lineup of the new mutants, so they had wolfsbane, who could turn into a wolf, you had sunspot and you also had magma, who didn't appear in the movie but she had a very similar power set to sunspot as well. But they were all like culturally and identified differently and their roles within the team were different as well. And this is really probably one of the only and few movies that I've seen a young cast of mutants come together and their team actually feel like a group of x-men, because the best thing about x-men is that they don't always have all the answers, but they work together, help each other through their weaknesses, use each other's strengths to try and get to that answer. And I really liked how the five of these kids in this movie, the New Mutants they actually did that and it felt like an X-Men movie and that's how I knew Josh Boone was a fan Even before I read anything about it. I was like the guy that made this movie knows X-Men because he knows how to bring five kids together who are struggling through a trauma and how to lean on each other to achieve a goal.

Speaker 2: 1:20:17

That's literally the joy of X-Men, and I really hope other people either listen to this podcast or find it somewhere and give this movie a chance, because it's really, really good. I like it. I love that passion. Thanks, man. All right, let's go into our most valuable takeaway segment. All right, this is the Heart and Soul of the Podcast, where we break down the one thing that hit hardest, stuck longest or taught us something new from what we just watched. It is our moment to spotlight a takeaway that made us think, feel or see things differently. This is what we learned from the New Mutants from 2020. Brash, you're going to take away our MVT today because we found that our MVTs often align, so we've decided we'll come up with a group MVT and we'll talk to you guys about it together.

Speaker 1: 1:21:07

Yes, yes. So I think the most fundamental one and the most obvious mbt for this film is friendship and bonding, especially um, over when you're feeling isolated. And you bond over that sort of trauma you've all gone through something and you find connection in that and um develop that sort of relationship where it's almost like you can't trust anyone but you found these people that I can't. I can trust these people in my life, sort of bonds. And I think this movie is for a movie that has a runtime. The way that these kids bond is it almost seems so, like it doesn't seem forced, it always seems natural. So, like it doesn't seem forced, it always seems natural. So danny and rain automatically had this strange like connection, because rain is just that's who rain is.

Speaker 1: 1:21:59

She's just a friendly sort of bubbly sort of character who is like, like wants to be friends with everyone and I think that comes because of her powers. She's being cast out as a witch, she was branded by the psychotic reverend and just being isolated, she just does her best to try and befriend people and I think, coming into this, knowing that everyone else has powers and is also a mutant like her, she's sort of like oh, this is my pack. This is somewhere where I can belong and that's why she's so friendly and tries to get everyone else to be a friend and, as you said, it's sort of like the heart of the group because she feels she's being portrayed by those that she thought were her family and doesn't want to have that feeling and doesn't want others to have that feeling and that's why she tries to like glue everyone together and, um, she straight off hits it with danny and I think that also brings up their connection in the comics, because in the comics they had that telepathic connection because of danny's backstory and her heritage. She had that telepathic connection with um rain, um, and so that made it a sort of more natural and easy bond, I think, for those two in the movie, because they just she's new, she's friendly, she's a new place where she doesn't know anyone.

Speaker 1: 1:23:28

Danny wakes up and handcuffed to a bed and while she's sort of hesitant around the rest of them, uh, rain sort of is the first one to extend the hand of like the help and, especially after hitting that force field, she's the one that's there and helps her up and then shows her, actually shows her around, instead of what iliana did to her. I think all of them have gone through up, like all of them have gone through a point and each of them have gone through, like all of them have gone through a point and each of them have done something that they consider to be extremely bad, and just that closeness that they create is as much as they closed off throughout the movie. They start to realize that they're all not so different and where they think they're all unique in a bad way, it turns out that they're all unique in a good way for each other.

Speaker 2: 1:24:16

Yeah, I agree with that, because I think it felt a little bit out of place when I first saw it the scene where they all went to the attic. But I also think that that scene was so necessary in this movie and it was really, really awesome because it showed that these characters were able to get to bond as teenagers and that's that, that John Hughes element we were talking about before. And it was actually said as well that these five cast members actually got really close filming this as well, because they were in a very creepy setting, a very creepy situation, and they were. They were some of them acting for the first time, some of them had been in other things, but they're all learning from each other, getting to know each other, while their characters on screen were getting to know each other. So in that manner, it felt very authentic in the way that the, the five characters, were really starting to bond and open up and become vulnerable. So were the actors, because it's a human experience, and I think that's where it comes to the MVT of where we're looking at the importance of friendships and not going through something in isolation if you don't have to, leaning on others where you can, letting them. Use your strengths as well, which is very fundamental to the X-Men but also very fundamental in this cast of characters.

Speaker 2: 1:25:27

All five of them have things that they regret, as you said, but they were still able to see the human elements of them, see things that were likable, see things that they could move forward with and were able to overcome a very challenging situation together. Overcome a very challenging situation together and I think moments like that they all walked out that gate together, which I think was the best ending ever, because if they walked away staggered or if it was one after the other, it wouldn't have hit right, but if all five of them literally walked out in a line together and I think that was absolutely symbolic, because each one of them got there at a different time at a different place, but through that experience they bonded and were able to get through it and then leave as a group together. And that togetherness was important for this movie too, which I really loved from it all together, that that importance of friendship and that that fight against the, the common theme as arrived throughout this movie, and also the feeling of being an outsider, I think was big through this as well, because, as we sort of noted. All five of them felt like an outsider, not knowing that all five of them were feeling the exact same thing Exactly and that's something that we can learn about in real life as well is because you might be feeling something that's very, very strong and very off-putting, but there's probably lots of people around that feel that exact same thing, which is why lots of people tell you, you know, when you're going through something big is to reach out to friends or find a community group. That's sometimes the best way to heal from things is to talk to people who've gone through a similar experience to you. And I think that that feeling of being an outsider is something that a lot, yeah, a lot of people feel, and it's something that we really need to push towards connecting. And when this movie came out, as well during COVID times, everybody was feeling like they were isolated, like they were an outsider, because a lot of their connections had been severed. So I think, in that regard, with with this, it might have been a really good movie to see during COVID times, because it had those themes of of connectedness, togetherness, overcoming something that was really big, that felt really big and you know, uh, you and your small group of people are trying to fight this thing. That's really, really big. I just think that everyone was going through it. Yeah, I think that this felt to me, at least in the character sense, as more of an x-men movie than any of the the recent fox x-men movies. At the very least, I think so I. I enjoyed this a lot.

Speaker 2: 1:27:50

Let's get on to rating it. Hey, let's, let's see what we're. We're gonna write it all. Right, this is our fandom portals on a board. It's the time that we rate it and rank it. Each host gives the movie a score out of five and then we take the average and add it to our official letterboxd on a board. If you want to follow that, you can find and track our rankings anytime at Letterboxd, which is at fandomportals. So, brash, I'll go first for this one. I gave this a four out of five, but I kind of want to give it a 4.5.

Speaker 1: 1:28:20

I was going to say I was going to give it a 4.5.

Speaker 2: 1:28:22

I think it does have some very like we talked about. I think it does have some pretty obvious flaws, but I think what it lacks it kind of makes up for in the things that it does really well in terms of being an X-Men movie, yeah. So I'm going to proudly give this a 4.5.

Speaker 1: 1:28:35

Yeah so am I Like? To me it hits all the marks. Yeah, there are things that are missing, that were forced to be taken out because of um, the difficulties at the time it was being filmed at the um, the problems or the issues that come with the changing of the ownership of the companies. Yep, it's low budget, low budget, yeah, fairly low budget for um, for a superhero movie, definitely.

Speaker 2: 1:29:00

And even with that, it's still like their cgi was like the bear was fucking amazing, absolutely the lighting when it pushed through, like there was like a fluoro light that hit just on its nose and you could see it like light up the the bear in just a fashion, and you could see the snowflakes flicking down on it and then in other elements you just saw the red light of the eyes just protruding through. Really well done, lockheed.

Speaker 1: 1:29:21

Amazing, yeah, so cute, um, but yeah, um, I I honestly, besides like knowing what other things could have been in the movie, I think is what half is the thing that's like? Oh, he has people to tracking it because if I didn't know that all these other things are going to be the movie, well could have been in potentially in the movie. Bums me a little bit.

Speaker 2: 1:29:46

I think for this one. I obviously do know that there are some elements to this that are not a 4.5 movie, but I think overall, when you're talking about the tone and the feel of it and the way that it connected with me and the way that it paid tribute to its origins as an X-Men book this is the 13th movie in the Fox X-Men universe. It's the last one. It's the coda of that franchise and a lot of people say that it wasn't done well, but I think that was the truest iteration of an X-Men team on screen that I've seen yet. So for me it's a 4.5.

Speaker 1: 1:30:21

Yeah, yeah, I could not agree more. So for me it's a 4.5. Yeah, yeah, I could not agree more. Yeah, the only way I could have seen this being a getting probably a solid fight is probably if it had the like John Hamm's sinister. That would be, yeah, I could just having John Hamm's sinister. That would have just made it fire straight away, like even if he was only in it for like a second, like even at the very end when, like they walk out, and then they could have like a post cut for the scene where you see Dr Sinister there and he has because Dr S has been taking blood from the kids, yeah, or he's looking at the security cameras yeah, like the old security cameras and you just see like a backward shot.

Speaker 2: 1:30:56

Oh man, we should have wrote this Like a backward shot of Mr Sinister in his chair looking at the kids walking out of the gate, and then the perspective changes so the kids aren't seen on the TV anymore, like it's still there. But you see in the reflection the red eyes and the diamond of Dr Sinister, john Hamm and his face, and then just like a smile. That would have been perfect.

Speaker 1: 1:31:14

Yeah, yeah, holy shit. And then I was like fuck Five, five, good, all right, 5.5, 5.5 let's put it on our board, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:31:23

So our current position right now number one, we have the crow that sits in an average of 4.25 and with our scores of 4.5 and 4.5, this actually becomes our new winner on the Phantom Force honor board. It topped the crow and then obviously, second, phantom of the Opera, but I'm happy with it to sit there, brash, if you are, I am yeah. Yeah, yes, it's controversial, but I think this connected with me really really well and I'm justified in my decision. I will fight off all the haters with a soul sword.

Speaker 1: 1:31:56

And I have for me, especially with comics like Marvel, dc, the other groups, not the main groups. The other groups I always love the other groups. Same, I never read the Slagship title. Yeah, your New Mutants, your Defenders, your S-Force, x -Files, lava, runaways I love the Runaways. And then you got Floken Dagger yeah, I love the Misfitsfits brad. Oh yeah, it's just, I love those characters. Those are always like turning my face, like I always have. Like one character I love from like the main groups, like hawkeye is like one of my favorite characters of all time. Yeah, these are, these are my jam, like miss marvel and squirrel girl and oh, yeah, those ones.

Speaker 2: 1:32:42

I feel like they have to rely on the character being likeable or relatable in some way over people liking that character because their abilities are cool, cool as shit. Yeah, yeah, and that's why I think I, at least I relate to them more, because I feel like their characters are more developed, as opposed to us looking at panels and panels and panels of them blowing up all these different facilities because they've got awesome lightning powers or something. Yeah, I'd much rather be about. Yeah, looking at you, thor, with your big new storm.

Speaker 2: 1:33:07

Yeah, dive storm is actually pretty fucking awesome I'd much rather read about, you know, a character that turns into a wolf, that has this terribly traumatic backstory, that finds connection with teenagers, something similar like I. All right, it's official, brash. We've put it at the very top of our fandom portals. On a board it sits at number one, toppling the crow. After many, many weeks of it sitting there, I wasn't sure that was going to get topped. For a long time, bro, I wasn't sure either, because it's obviously a very good movie, like cult classic status, but I think we've found it Alright. Let's get on to our final.

Speaker 2: 1:33:41

Alright, that has been this episode of the Phantom Portals podcast featuring the New Mutants from 2020. We have a new leader on the Phantom Portals on a board list, guys, it is the New Mutants. All right, if you are enjoying this, make sure you tell a friend about this podcast. Tell a friend that some people on the internet have rated the New Mutants higher than the Crow. Go and tell them. Let them know we're happy to answer their emails. Our email is fandomportals at gmailcom. If you have any questions about the show or if you want to recommend a movie for us, make sure you email us there too. It is marvel month, guys, so that means all our content for this month will be marvel related. Next week, brash, go and tell them doing we are doing guardians three. Yes, we're doing. Guardians of the galaxy three another found family flick, I think to prepare for this brash, I'm just gonna watch all three yeah, and as much as I do on new mutants.

Speaker 2: 1:34:33

We might have a new. We might have a new winner. Maybe you'll have to tune in and see guys, you have to tune in it depends on how.

Speaker 1: 1:34:38

It depends on how I feel watching it, because I've only watched it once before same.

Speaker 2: 1:34:44

I only watched it once. In movie theaters and cinemas Same Same.

Speaker 1: 1:34:47

Because there's a part in that movie that I really loved and it was really sad and I was full on crying.

Speaker 2: 1:34:55

So yeah, yeah. Well, it depends how it sits. Now I think, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 1:35:00

Now I'm watching it again and I have that same feeling as when I was, Because that's how I felt with the first Guardians, Because the first Guardians was fucking amazing. When I first watched that I'm like no other Marvel movie will ever top this movie. And then I watched it again and I'm like, oh yeah, it's pretty good.

Speaker 2: 1:35:13

Yeah, it came at the perfect time for me. It did, because I was like I'm back. I think it was. Yeah, it was like a revival and it just revamped. Miles was like it is going to be Guardians of the Galaxy 3 by James Gunn. That is going to be next.

Speaker 2: 1:35:30

Guys, make sure you tune in to that next week, and while you're waiting for that episode to come out, you should go on over to our website, which is wwwfandomportalspodcastcom. It's in the show notes below. If you don't like typing, you can click instead and you can see our website. At our website, there is this awesome thing called a mailing list. We won't email you too often. We'll just send you one newsletter a month, but in that newsletter you'll also be the first to know about any giveaways that we are doing. And guess what? Brash, we're doing a giveaway. We're doing a giveaway. We're doing a giveaway right now. We're doing one. All right, if you want to send your family or even yeah, or yourself four times to the movies, then you can join our giveaway by joining our mailing list, which is on our website, and all you have to do after you join our mailing list is hope that Brash and I get four more points in our Fandom Facts Face-Off across two weeks. Very doable, very doable, very doable.

Speaker 1: 1:36:20

We might have to bump up our questions because, yeah, we smashed our.

Speaker 2: 1:36:26

Too knowledgeable. Too knowledgeable, alright, so definitely go and check out that website, guys. Check out that mailing list. Sign on if you love movies and you want to get sent to one for free. This has been Aaron for the Phantom Portals podcast and this is Brash. Keep learning, keep growing, keep loving fandoms. Bye guys, bye guys, bye.