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The Fandom Portals Podcast
"Welcome to Fandom Portals—the show that explores how your favourite fandoms can help you learn and grow!" 🎙️✨
Each episode, we explore TV, movies, comics, and games to reveal how these worlds and the characters in them help us learn about resilience, courage, friendship, and more.
The Fandom Portals Podcast is hosted by Aaron Davies and Adam Brasher, two friends who are obsessed with fandoms, storytelling, and building a community where passion and positivity come first. From Marvel to Middle-earth, Star Wars to indie comics, we dive deep into the stories you love — and how they help us learn and grow. ✨
The Fandom Portals Podcast
From Horror Fan to Final Destination Bloodlines. How Jeffrey Reddick Changed Horror for Millennials.
Episode Summary:
Jeffrey Reddick, the creator of the Final Destination franchise, shares his journey from a young horror fan to a successful writer and producer in the film industry. He discusses the importance of mentorship, the creative process behind his iconic films, and the deeper themes explored in horror. Reddick reflects on the evolution of the horror genre, the significance of death in his work, and the impact of his films on audiences. He emphasizes the value of education, kindness, and persistence in the creative field, while also addressing the challenges and recognition faced by horror as a genre.
Guest: Jeffrey Reddick - Renowned Screenwriter and Producer
Takeaways:
Jeffrey Reddick's passion for horror began at a young age.
Mentorship played a crucial role in Reddick's development as a writer.
The horror genre can explore deeper themes like trauma and grief.
Final Destination was inspired by a personal experience with a log truck.
Reddick emphasizes the importance of education in the arts.
The creative process involves collaboration and adaptation.
Death is a central theme in the Final Destination franchise.
Reddick transitioned from writer to producer for the sequels.
The log truck scene became iconic and influenced audience behavior.
Horror is often undervalued in the film industry despite its popularity.
Sound Bites:
"The whole idea with Final Destination is that you can't cheat death, but I always wanted it to be that you could prolong your life." - Jeffrey Reddick
"Horror has always been the safest bet as far as getting a return on your investment, but it's also a genre that allows people to express themselves and deal with trauma." - Jeffrey Reddick
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Jeffrey Reddick and His Career in Horror
03:03 The Journey from Fan to Filmmaker
05:54 The Role of Education and Mentorship in Creative Growth
08:34 The Power of Horror as a Medium for Deeper Themes
12:00 The Evolution of Final Destination and Its Impact
14:35 The Creative Process Behind Final Destination
17:54 The Significance of Death in the Franchise
20:50 The Transition from Writer to Producer
23:45 The Legacy of the Log Truck Scene
26:33 The Future of Horror and Its Recognition
29:48 Final Thoughts and Takeaways
Apple Tags:
JeffreyReddick, HorrorPodcast, FinalDestination, Screenwriting, HorrorMovies, FilmIndustry, CinematicJourney, HorrorFans, MovieMagic, BehindTheScenes, CreativeGenius, HorrorStorytelling, IconicFilms, FilmmakerInsights
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Hey everyone, it's Aaron here from the Fandom Portals podcast. I just wanted to introduce you to this episode where I have a really great chat with Jeffrey Reddick, the creator of the Final Destination franchise. We dive into so much in this episode. Not only do we talk about his experience on the Final Destination franchise. We also talk about bloodlines and the cultural shift that's occurring with horror movies, and we also deep dive into a little bit to do with his history, his process and he's just a really warm and awesome guest to have on a podcast. Guys. Not only that, but he's a really great human as well. He has a knack for storytelling and he also is very appreciative of his fans and loves the genre of horror. So I really hope you enjoy this episode with Jeffrey Reddick on the Fandom Portals Podcast and thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Fandom Portals Podcast, where we explore the fandoms that help us learn and grow. Today we are joined by a very special guest. It's the mastermind and creator behind some of horror's most iconic franchises. He's a writer, producer and director in the industry. It's Jeffrey Reddick, the creator of the Final Destination franchise. He's a trailblazer in the horror genre. Jeffrey has turned his idea into a cultural phenomenon that changed how we look at fate, death, destiny and sometimes some everyday accidents. How are you going, jeffrey? And happy 4th of July as well.
Speaker 2:Happy 4th of.
Speaker 1:July. How are you, aaron? Very well, thank you, very well indeed. So first of all, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. It's great to have you on. I wanted to start by asking you about your career in horror, because you've been writing in the genre for quite a long time now. How did your passion for horror turn into the career that you've sort of made now? Where did it all start for you?
Speaker 2:You know it all started when I was very young. I just I fell in love with the horror genre. You know, me and my friends when we were way too young to be watching horror films, just watched. You know, at first it was always just looking for like the bloodiest movies we could find, like that was our thing. And our parents weren't very happy that we were watching horror. But they were like, well, at least we know, because we would either watch it at my house or my friend Calvin's house my friend, like we were always at one of our three houses my house or my friend Calvin's house, or my friend, like we were always at one of our three houses. So they're like, well, at least we know where they are and they're out of trouble. So we'll let them. We'll let them watch this.
Speaker 2:But I saw the original Nightmare on Elm Street, which is kind of my favorite. Well, it's not kind of, it's my favorite horror film of all time and it really changed my love for horror into like an obsession, like cause I could. I saw what that film like, all the stuff that you could do. I know there'd been a couple of kind of reality bending horror films before that, but I'd never seen it done in that way. And, you know, the concept was brilliant, the set pieces were brilliant, the script was brilliant, freddie, you know, iconic killer Nancy, iconic final girl. So yeah, I just I that like movie blew my mind. And it's funny because that actually led to my career, because when I saw the film I went home and I banged out a treatment for a prequel and, yeah, I'm 14.
Speaker 2:This is like 19, not to date myself, but it's 1984. Like you know, I you know, and I lived in a trailer in the hills of Kentucky, like nothing about the film industry, I was just this little hillbilly horror fan. And I went home and I banged out a prequel idea and I mailed it to Bob Shea. I found out his address in New York and I mailed it to the head of New Line Cinema and he sent it back and he's like you know, we don't read unsolicited material, and so I had to look up what that meant because I was only 14. And then I was like, oh, and so I just wrote him back and I sent it again and I'm like, look, sir, I've spent three dollars on your movie, I think you can, or your movies. So I think you could take five minutes to read my story and he actually read it and he got back to me and him and his assistant, joy Mann, who became like a godmother to me, she was just the most amazing woman. They stayed in touch with me and they would send me scripts and they would just encourage me. You know, obviously I didn't. I was not a good writer at 14, not having ever even read a script. But they didn't tell me that, they just told me like positive things to focus on and work on, and from age 14 to 19, you know, from age 14 to 19, I stayed in touch with them and got scripts and got better at writing.
Speaker 2:I went to college in Kentucky and studied theater because I knew I always wanted to work in the movie business. And during the summer of my sophomore year I got a summer grant and auditioned for the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York and I got in to their summer program. So I went there and when I was in New York they offered me an internship at New Line. So I was 19 years old and in New York and you know, I ended up getting an agent, an acting agent, and I had an intern at New Line, you know, which did Nightmare on Elm Street, and I was like 19. And you know how, you know naive but super optimistic, yeah, and I was like, well, this is really easy, I'm just going to stay in New York and you know, not finish school and stay in New York and just do it and cut to the reality, you know, of life and acting and writing, kind of kicking in. But the thing that I that was a constant was I stayed at New Line and they ended up creating a position for me in house and then I I worked there. I ended up working there 11 years. You know, it was 19 when I started working there and I was 27, I think when I set up.
Speaker 2:You know, new Line bought the treatment for Final Destination and then they had me write the first draft of it. It was a long journey. You know the, you know, would you just say, the ages. It doesn't sound maybe that long, but it was a long journey. But also being in the studio was so invaluable because it taught me how movies are really made.
Speaker 2:If you don't work in the business, you know, and don't know about it, you just think, oh, wow, they find a good script and then they just make it and it's like, oh no, there are a thousand little pieces and decisions that go into like what even gets to the point of being considered, even gets to the point of being considered. And then you know, at new line there was like these scripts they had the scripts that were green lit and filming, then they had the priority scripts they were working on, then they had the almost priority scripts, or we were kind of, and then they had the other scripts they were working on and then they had all the scripts that were like if we get to them, but a lot of times it was just end up never getting made. So there was a. You just saw how vast the machine was to actually get a movie made. So it helped.
Speaker 2:It helped a lot with me not personally taking a rejection Like being devastated if I had a script passed on, because I realized like I could see the decision making processes and a lot of times it wasn't about the script, it was about, you know there was something similar or you know there was a focus on comedy at that moment in time, so they were really focused on con. So there were a lot of things that would go into it. So it just helped me kind of stay pretty zen. You know, throughout this, you know these many, many years in the business.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like you've gone on a pretty big learning journey and it was really good of the people at New Line originally to foster that passion in you for writing and creating, especially because I know that when I'm a teacher by trade I know that a lot of the times the arts, especially kind of writing and things like that they sometimes go by the wayside, or they can at least.
Speaker 1:But I really admire your gumption and continuity to go through and continue writing and take that feedback, continue to get better, because it sounds like you've learned along the way and sometimes they say you didn't know that the machine behind Hollywood, as it were, but did that kind of help you to originally push to get your screenplays looked at? The fact that it was almost like the naivety of youth, you might say. I think by the time I got to New Line originally pushed to get your, your sort of screenplays looked at the the fact that you it was almost like the naivety of youth, you might say I think by the time I got to new line, especially because I read coverage that was done on the scripts that they never told me.
Speaker 2:They just told me the positive stuff to work on. And then I read the coverage I was like, oh shit, like there's so much I'd you know, I'm glad they didn't tell me this stuff when I was younger. I would have, I would have quit writing because you know there's coverage like this is just awful. I have to step back because of what you just said about being a teacher, because that's that's one of it's so funny that you bring that up, because I'm going back to Kentucky at the end of August and you know we're they're talking about bringing, like you know, more jobs and opportunities, especially like in the arts. Like you know, more jobs and opportunities, especially like in the arts and that was one of my big things I was talking about on our conference call was that A? You know it's very frustrating that the arts are kind of the first thing to kind of be cut from school budgets and they're not encouraged enough, because arts not only are a way to help people express themselves and come out of their shell and help discover who they are, but it also does keep them out of, especially when you live in rural areas where there's not a lot of stuff to do. It keeps them out of trouble and it gives them a positive outlet for their thing.
Speaker 2:And teachers I got to get on my teacher rant because teachers are so fucking important. I always say this. I'm not just saying this because of you, but teachers are so important and they've been. Even when I was growing up, like I remember, our teachers would have to bring pencils to school because the schools didn't get enough, have enough money to pay for it. So, especially in like rural areas and poor areas, like schools are underfunded. They're always under. You know, teachers do so much and are under appreciated and are valued.
Speaker 2:If it weren't for my teachers like my English teachers were the ones who really, you know, pushed me about my writing and was like you were really good. And I had one teacher in particular, ms Bellamy, who she was an English teacher but over one semester she I talked her into like doing like a talent show for the school, and so all the kids, like you know, from the athletes to the really nervous, quiet kids, like we all came together and like put on this talent show that, like, the whole town came to see and it brought up, you know, and it was so powerful to like bring all these people together. And I actually took Miss Bellamy to the premiere of Final Destination in New York and we were on the Rosie O'Donnell show. It's online because I had promised her, like when I make it, like you know, I'm taking you to the premiere of my movie, so so, yeah, we brought her out to New York for the premiere and the studio had us on the Rosie O'Donnell show and it was all because of the teacher thing and it's just, it's bravo to you for being a teacher, cause I know that it is.
Speaker 2:I know that you know how valuable it is because you do it, obviously, because you love it, and you know the positive impact it can have on students. But, yeah, I, that's just one of my, one of my lifelong pet peeves is how education always seems to be under. They're always trying to find some reason to like, especially with public teachers is to like undercut and underpay and under school. You know the people that need access to schools the most and it's um, so anyway, I won't rant about everything you bring up, but that is very near and dear.
Speaker 1:You know, teaching is very near and dear to my heart and my journey no, I think that's it's a really good and honest point, because I really do love the, the work that I do and I see students every day that have these passions that need to be fostered and some of the time, the creative energy that these kids have it needs to kind of be supported and fostered in that way. So I'm glad that that happened to you and shout out to Ms Bellamy, was it, ms Bellamy?
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, she's no longer with us, unfortunately, but her and Ms Murphy and Ms I mean I loved all my teachers, but my English teachers were the ones that really because I wanted to act, but then acting was a lot different, the landscape was a lot different if you looked like me back in the day for acting. So I decided that writing was the best way to stay in the business and the game. So I've always had a fondness for my English teachers especially, but I appreciated all of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you know writing, but also within the horror genre as well.
Speaker 1:I'm, as I said to you before, I'm pretty new to the to the horror genre and that's purely because I kind of had this, this brain, where images kind of stick in my head a little bit. I've kind of avoided it because I don't want to have those lingering sort of things. But I've actually found that horror has been a really good medium to tell different kinds of stories and for the exploration of various different sort of personal beliefs or whether it be, you know, exploring grief, trauma, existential fears, things like that. Like there's a horror movie that came out called the Beast Within that stars Kit Harington and that was kind of like a big allegory for stopping familial violence and family trauma and things like that. So I found that through my journey of going through the horror genre it's actually a little bit deeper and a little bit more creative than what I first thought it was. So could I get your thoughts on how horror can be like the vehicle or the vessel for things like that, for people?
Speaker 2:especially coming from a writer like yourself. Yeah, I mean, I think that's been, that's kind of been the quandary of horror creators for such a long time as is even when you have a movie like a hereditary or I mean, get out, got some accolades, but hereditary, or you know, you have these, these movies that are have a-list talent, you, you know, working on them, doing amazing jobs. The genre's always kind of been seen as, like you know, the black sheep of the film industry and you know, again, that's why I fell in love with Nightmare on Elm Street, because I read Fangoria as like the horror, the oldest kind of horror Bible that's been around, as far as like interviewing people. That's been around. As far as like interviewing people. And so I would read all these interviews with Wes Craven and see how much thought he put in to the film and how the film was about like kind of the sins of the parents coming back upon the children and, you know, not being believed. And you know allegories, for you know a lot of these films are allegories for like dealing with trauma or grief or, and sometimes they're just fun and bloody. But even at the, even at the core of the fun and bloody ones.
Speaker 2:There is that theme of good versus evil and usually in horror the final girl or the final boy in horror films is somebody who's going through stuff as somebody who in this world of the film is kind of in the background or kind of they're not the most popular, you know, they're not. You know, in movie terms they're not the hottest, you know most popular person in school or the most athletic. They're usually a representation of somebody who's kind of unseen or kind of dismissed as like oh, that's just, that's just a normal person, like that's not the beauty queen or the you know or anything like that. So there's always been this undercurrent of of you and even the most basic horror films is the empowerment of somebody who doesn't have a lot of power in the world of the film and is kind of dismissed and they, that person rises to save the day. So there's wish fulfillment there in a way, because most of the horror people that I meet like I'm always surprised not anymore, because now we have the internet people can see interviews with me. But early before the internet people would meet me and be like wow, you're a lot nicer and sweeter than I thought you like I was. I didn't know what you're gonna be like and it's like most of my writer, director, actor friends who love the genre are like the nicest, sweetest people because they, being an artist already kind of makes you an outsider as far as like respectability and people saying, oh, you know, get a real job, so add horror on top of that and you're kind of like an outsider in an outsider career. So you know I love that. That. You know I've always and it's not I never lead with the message usually. You know I love that. That. You know I've always, and it's not I never lead with the message.
Speaker 2:You know, in my stuff, like, but you know I do deal with like themes of like bullying, like in Tamra.
Speaker 2:Or you know, obviously Final Destination is about mortality and you know you can't cheat death like that's.
Speaker 2:You know it's an, it's an inevitability. And you know, as I've gotten older now, because I have always been more fun, concept horror and with layers in there, like I mean it's not like you know I don't. You know I try to really write characters that are universal or phenomena like dead awake, which is about sleep, paralysis, which is something that people really experience, or don't look back, which is is, you know, really deals with the bystander effect of people in a group seeing something bad happen. A lot of them won't intervene because of different reasons, you know, psychological reasons. But as I've gotten older and especially as I've seen the world kind of get more divisive, like my last, my last script, which we're right now it's the first original thing I've written for myself as opposed to being hired to write it for somebody else, and this one it was just like I've got all this, like you know, agita for lack of a better word inside me about how the world is going right now.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's kind of a global, global thing and it's it's. It's really the lack of empathy that we have, and I know a lot of that sprung out of COVID, you know, when a lot of us were isolated and it was kind of a traumatic world event where none of us knew what was going on and had no control over our lives and got locked up in our own homes. And you know, again, that's just the hard realities of it, aside from the fear of COVID itself. It's like you know, and we've never, I think that really separated us, you know, because we were all isolated for so long. And then, you know, so people started going down rabbit holes and, you know, the worst thing you can do is be in your own brain alone for a long period of time, and so we we've disconnected so much is on a person-to-person level that there's just so much hate and division that is a lot of it's just being manufactured, in my opinion, like to keep us, keep us engaged, but in a negative way.
Speaker 2:This new script I've written is very much deals with that kind of hatred in a really cool way. So this is the first time where I really like just kind of not to be graphic but cut a, cut a vein open and just like let it bleed on the page. As far as like, okay, I don't, I've not wanted to deal with like the shit that I've dealt with as a, you know, as a gay person of color who grew up poor and I am also in a minority religion in america, which any four of those things would get you enough yeah, to enough grief, but to have them all together and I've walked through life dealing with it in a very positive way and seeing the best in people and being patient and being kind. But you know there's a lot that you have to bury to kind of keep that up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's really what I'm hearing is it's really good that you have this vehicle of writing to sort of pursue that sort of passion in you and those concerns that you have as well. Yes, when you sort of first started with your writing, you mentioned that you wrote some screenplays to nightmare of elm street. I read somewhere as well that the the final destination script sort of originated from an x-files episode script. It wasn't from an x-file yeah, they.
Speaker 2:They always get it messed up. Because what happened is I was trying to get a t, an agent, and so you need to have a feature sample and a TV sample for them to read. And they always wanted something that was already on the air to show that you could write in, because your original movie sample would show that you could write your own characters. But for TV they wanted to know that you could write other characters in their voices, in their voices. So I did write an X-Files spec script to get an agent, but it never went to the actual X-Files. Like my friends at New Line were like, this is a great idea for a feature. So it never went to the X-Files.
Speaker 2:But in a kind of cool, kind of karmic, meant to be twist of fate, james Wong and Glenn Morgan, who had worked on the X-Files, ended up coming on board Final Destination, james to direct, and then Glenn james wrote the shooting script, you know, based off my, my original scripts. There's there's that really kind of cool kind of connection. But but over the years, yeah, people, I've read articles where it's like it was a rejected x-files script. I'm like no, it wasn't, I never sent it to them, but yeah, it's. It is funny how like. That's why I always, when I talk to people about pursuing like your dreams or your art, it's like you, you never know if you're putting stuff out there, you never know how it's going to come back. So the fact that I started as an X-Files script it was enough to get me an agent. So I got meetings out of that. But then my friends at New Line were like this is a great idea for a feature. Let's, you should write this as a feature.
Speaker 1:And I'm like OK so that's really good and I think that I'm not sure if it's the right one, but I kind of tracked it down. First of all, there was a character called aaron in it, which is awesome, and secondly, I was just wondering what sort of things transferred over from the, the x-files spec script that you did, to the, the final destination sort of, because I know it was a collaborative process that you sort of went through with your, with your screenplay. What sort of stayed in? How much voice did you have in terms of creating that that sort of final product? And and you know what came from the X-Files script and what was sort of added in.
Speaker 2:Well it is. It was an interesting long process because what stayed from the script was the premonition in the early draft, you know, in the early drafts of the treatment they were adults, oh yeah, and then so that that stayed in the script. But then scream came out, which I love, and that was wes craven again and kevin williams and his wife, but he's an amazing writer. But when scream came out they were like, well, what if would you mind making them all teenagers? Because teenagers are hot again, I'm like sure, like i't care. So then we made all the characters teenagers. So I kept the male final guy which is from the X-Files, and obviously in the X-Files script, you know, there was never any kind of Grim Reaper kind of personification of death. So I kept that. But then after a while that became a problem for the studios because they were like you know, we don't know how we can do a movie without showing death.
Speaker 2:So in my final draft they made me put in like an angel of death but kind of like the X-Files, like it didn't show up. It wasn't killing the characters, it was just taunting Aaron. But those are the things that stayed. Pretty much everything else because of the you know you're going from feature to and you're focusing on a group of teenagers, changed, you know, like you know, the idea that death was killing in the order that they would have died in the plane crash, like that was something I came up with in the development process, just so it wasn't a straight up almost slasher movie with death being the killer. So that changed. And then I think the biggest change with James and Glenn which I think is brilliant, was my version was very much kind of Nightmare on Elm Street influenced. So death was using every character survivor's guilt to create, you know, this kind of, put them in their worst fears and they ended up killing themselves in ways that look like accidents. So in the movie Todd, you know, aaron's friend or Alex's friend Aaron, that's from the TV episode, yeah, and that's your name and my middle name, alex His friend, you know, gets hung in the shower and in my script he rigged a noose up in the garage and was kind of calling his father on his car phone and apologizing for some stuff he'd done and the father's rushes home not knowing, like you don't know this, you don't know what Todd has done, but when the father opens a garage clicker it ends up hanging there. So there were a lot of character archetypes that stayed the same. But when they added the Rube Goldberg aspect, which again I think really opened the franchise up to a wider audience than would normally go see a horror film, I thought that was really brilliant. And the good thing is I worked at the studio so I would get every draft of the script in and, you know, give notes that would go back to them Once. I kind of know my role as a, as a writer and having been through the process before, once a script is like moving forward and and you like, you know you like the directors and you, you know you like their work they come up with some cool stuff. You know my job at that point was just the same as a studio. It was like let's just make sure what they're turning in is, you know, as strong as it can be If we have any holes. And we I didn't even really have, honestly didn't have very many notes once. Once they started turning in the shooting script, like I thought they did a really good job with the thing and you know there was enough of my story and structure and characters and kind of the solid foundation there that I was. Just you know, again, I thought the stuff they did actually made it stronger. So, you know, I was really happy with the way the film turned out.
Speaker 2:I mean, there were, you know there was a new ending that was shot, because I know the ending that they filmed was definitely much more intellectual. You know, and you know Alex died and then Clear was alive and had his child that she named alex, and then carter was still there. But test audiences for you know this is, you know why you should you got to test your test your films. It's awful, it sounds only creative. But test audiences were like you know, they wanted something bigger and plus, they were like why is this asshole guy? Like oh yeah, he's hanging out with with clear. You know what's up with that. And so, to the studio's credit, they spent an extra like million dollars and like reshot the ending which works actually beautifully because it kind of ties into the whole. They were starting, you know, on a trip to Paris and it ends there and that yeah, so the whole thing is such a it is a process and again I'm just really happy with, with the final result and it found an audience.
Speaker 2:It was a word of mouth hit, like usually horror films open high and then drop 50 percent it's kind of the standard drop rate for horror films and our movie opened at number three. So it didn't open at number one because, new line, they put marketing behind it but they didn't quite know how to like. We didn't have a jason or a freddie or, you know, michael myers. So the trailers were really cool but you had to trust that the audience is going to be there and I I was very confident. You know I'm sitting in that and I'm like it's going do good.
Speaker 2:And then it opened to number three and they're like it's doing OK. But then during the week we started noticing the numbers going up. So every week it kept climbing higher and so that's why, you know, I'm always so grateful. Every filmmaker I know is grateful for the fans. So this isn't just me, but I'm just saying like that's why I am so grateful for the fans, like I never take you know my career because I'm a fan myself, but I never take my career for granted because I just remember watching it go up each week and my core fans are you know, they're going to check it out and they're talking about it. You guys are the best.
Speaker 1:That's so good, yeah, and I think that with that word of mouth thing it's it's become a millennial sort of classic hit really and it definitely found its audience in that sort of space. And I I know as well that you were talking before about the, you know, death being that invisible force, was there a whole lot of pushback for you to actually create a physical embodiment of that?
Speaker 2:Oh yes, so much From the studio. Like it was funny, craig Perry who you know I always say is like the daddy of the film because he's been the producer and he's the one and his partner, sheila, who came on, you know they became partners after the first film but they've been like literally the parents of this franchise. As far as you know. They became partners after the first film but they've been like literally the parents of this franchise. As far as you know, the producers really are the ones that kind of keep every movie on track and kind of fight for quality stuff and have to deal with the creative and the studio.
Speaker 2:So, you know, craig and I really fought for a long time to not because we were like that's the whole point is like death For a long time to not because we were like that's the whole point is like death, because I didn't want to tie death into any kind of religious or spiritual or not, or no matter what your belief system is. I didn't want to tie it into anything that would limit people from being impacted by the movie. So even when we did the Angel of Death, there's no real, it was just a shadowy figure that showed up after Alex figured out the order and he tried to go save a character and then he realized he forgot the order because some characters didn't switch seats on the plane, like the angel that kind of just showed up in the shadows, kind of taunting him but it wasn't like a christian, like you know, grim reaper I don't know, but you know it was it was still vague, but, um, it was.
Speaker 2:It was a battle. And then I know that James and Glenn went through the same, you know the same thing with the studio. And it's fine because they were taking a chance on. They were taking a chance on concept because it wasn't a typical, it wasn't what you were seeing coming out at the time, which was like more slasher based horror films Like this was more esoteric, and they were, so I I understood the trepidation on their part, but the good news is everybody fought the good fight and the studio, at the end of the day, released it without having us have a yeah I think it kind of worked best because I know for me anyway, the fear of the unknown is is more scary than sort of anything that you can create.
Speaker 1:But also what you can imagine the villain or slasher is is usually a lot scarier than what it ends up sort of being at the end of the the movie anyway.
Speaker 1:So it kind of plays into that.
Speaker 1:But it also kind of also allows for that rube goldberg horror subgenre that you were talking about earlier, because there's there's those elaborate death set pieces that happen and I think that the, the invisible antagonist, so to speak, kind of lends itself really well to to that sort of aspect that has become really prominent through the franchise.
Speaker 1:And I kind of love the way you guys did it, because you know, in the movies you can see it as like a gust of wind or you can see it as various sort of natural effects, for one like lightning or things like that, where it sort of tells the audience you know death is approaching or death is watching or something's going to occur in this space. It kind of allowed the audience to kind of play detective because it didn't show like the tension in these movies didn't come from. If the characters would die, it would come from how they died, which was a really sort of brilliant twist on a usual horror sort of trope, which I thought was really great too, and especially in the new one, bloodlines, they've kind of transitioned it to be that penny, and that penny is just going viral all across.
Speaker 2:I know, I know. And again, like, yeah, that's what I loved when Glenn and James came up with the Rube Goldberg aspect, because, again, it was a way to A keep away from the studio making them show any kind of death thing, but it did make it universal in that it's like everyday things around you could do it. So you know it's. It is funny because, um, I love bloodline. It's been so long since we've had one and it's a combination that you know I I spoke to the screenwriters before they started the script and just, you know screenwriters that I very much admired, so I was so glad they were doing it, but they were such big fans and so I just gave them a couple of you know things that I would you know, because screenwriters that I very much admired, so I was so glad they were doing it, but they were such big fans and so I just gave them a couple of you know things that I would you know, cause they were like, what do you think? Like, we know it's important to us as fans, but what do you think is important? And I said, well, here's a couple of things. And then I'd like to clear up that one character's fate and one of the I'm trying to try not to spoil movies like I want to make it canon that this person survived, since they did survive in the movie. But then on some dvd extras on a later movie, they were like, oh, this character died. And so I said can we just clear that up and have tony todd come back?
Speaker 2:But the directors too, like they are the nicest, like most I mean this in the most positive way like geeky, like geekiest fans of this franchise. So they approached it not only as filmmakers but like, with like, and again, it's a, it's a fun horror movie. Like I'm not, and so I know we're not making, like you know, even Private Ryan here like making a fun horror film. But there's a level of respect that they and passion and excitement they dug so much into it. Because, like the log truck is like probably my proudest moment, you know coming up with that, because that was kind of the thing. And now I'm like it is funny because that penny, that penny needs to get a like a supporting character. Yeah, uh, saturn award, because it was just brilliant how they weaved that through the whole movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's such a good through line they put so much in there.
Speaker 2:I was listening to the commentary and it's just the care that they put into so much of it and that trickles down to everybody the writers, the actors. They were very open with the production designers. They were like put as many Easter eggs in here as you want, like, and Tony Todd coming back and giving his last performance and them letting him ad lib his last lines to the audience, knowing that that was kind of his parting words in this franchise to the world, was so touching. So there was just so much love and passion that went into this one that I just frig love it.
Speaker 1:I had such a blast it was a really great cinema experience for me and I didn't see it when it first came out. I saw it like I don't know eight, eight or nine weeks after it originally released and the cinema was still half full and it was still like full of really passionate sort of fans because they they had the, the physical sort of reaction to the moments that you'd expect. It was really, really great and I love the, the soundtrack and the blending of that kind of thing in there as well, and they really went to town on the rube goldberg in that one. I think it's so good too. But yeah, I'm a big fan of the new one too and I'm a massive fan of the franchise. You did mention the log truck. I'll be remiss if I don't ask you, because when I told everybody that I was sort of going to talk to you, they said ask him about the log truck.
Speaker 1:I was okay, like, how did that sort of come about? And you know a lot of the people that sort of asked me to talk to you about it has said that whenever they see a log truck now they back off about two or three kilometers off the speed limit. So it's had that sort of lasting effect. So how did that sort of come about?
Speaker 2:but then also, did you, did you know that the impact would, would be this vast, not only on that moment of the log truck, but just this franchise as a whole, like it's gone, generational really it's funny how I came up with the idea like we'd had this the general story worked out, but originally it was going to be the kids are going to flor, florida, and they stop at a hotel and it was going to be a hotel fire. Craig Perry, whose name I mention often, was just like I like the hotel fire, but I wish we had something bigger. I was driving home to visit my family in Kentucky. That's when I came up with the concept of the first one was flying home to visit my family in Kentucky. So I always have to give Kentucky a shout out for not only raising me right but also for inspiration. But yeah, like we were just.
Speaker 2:You know, I was riding on the mountain Parkway in Kentucky and got behind a log truck and then I just pulled into the next lane and then it just hit me and I pulled off the freeway and I called Craig like it was really late, and I woke him up, which is so Hollywood to say. But I was like what about a log truck? And he's like whoa, so they slow down. I was like what about a log truck on the freeway and the chain breaks and he's like that's a fucking opening. I love that story because it's also like how important, like artists, living life is, because you don't know where inspiration is going to hit you. And I had been holed up at home racking my brain trying to think of something to replace the fire. And then I was going home to visit my family and it was just like I was so focused because I hate driving, so I was so focused on driving home that I wasn't thinking about the movie. And then I get behind that log truck and I'm like, oh, I hate those things. And then I went over and it was like light bulb moment.
Speaker 2:But to your second question, just growing up as a fan, certainly you always keep a sequel in mind. All my favorite horror movies have sequels. So I thought if we were lucky we would have a sequel. I did think that the impact is not something that I it's so hard for me to get my head around. Like I get log truck memes and my friends are sending me log truck videos and TikTok, it's like like almost every other day like I will get something to do with like log trucks or people saying you know doing videos where it's like this is a final destination moment, so to to have that be in the zeitgeist 25 years later. It's really cool, but it's still hard to get my head around. You know it's still hard to you know I'll be like oh you're, don't you know it's still hard to you know I'll be like oh, you're don't.
Speaker 2:You know like this is. I was like it's cool, but you know it's like also, I'm very. I grew up in kentucky. They teach you to be very humble there, so I never go around going. Ha ha, ha, like yeah I'm in this eye following the mustache.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's never like that, but it it just. It's really grateful. And I also I would be remiss if I didn't thank chris bender, who was working with me, who took the idea to craig perry and his producing partner at the time, warren zide, but also my friend brett leitner, who came up with a title, because originally it was called flight 180. I know the directors liked the title and they wanted to keep it, but I knew that if there was a sequel we couldn't call it flight 182 and flight 183. And so we were really racking our brains and my friend brett leitner came into the office one day and he's like, what about final destination? Like what do you mean? He goes, well, we just I just landed and they say you've reached your final destination when you land on a plane. And that's your. You know, final destination on this planet is when you die.
Speaker 2:And I was like that that's really cool. And so I called the producer up and he's like, yeah, that's it, you got it. I mean, you're still running into that, you know, aha, not the final destination after all, but it's. You know, it's just cool. And you know, I mean, just as a fan, you know it still makes that, no matter how old I get, it still like. It takes me back to being that 14-year-old kid and thinking about Nightmare on Elm Street.
Speaker 2:And then it's like if I told that kid there would be memes going around about a scene he created one day in a horror movie. Well, he would have probably said you're damn right there. I had a lot of gumption when I was young, but it is really cool, that's really great, I'm very grateful and again it's all back to the fans.
Speaker 1:you know it really is yeah, well, I can, I can attest because final destination was my nightmare of elm street for me, because it was kind of the you know you're all over for a sleepover, put on a horror movie while the parents are asleep, kind of thing that that was final destination for me and I know that's sort of the experience for a lot of people, my age and it's. It's sort of become a lot of people's gateway into the horror genre as well, which is good. Yeah, I just think it really touches base with those sort of millennials especially. But I really like that bloodlines has come out, so it's again for a new generation that's sort of going to be enjoying that sort of phase of it as well, yeah yeah, that's really great, okay.
Speaker 1:So I think I want to ask you about some of the like, some of the, the transitions that you made between final destination one and final destination two, because I know that in final destination one you were, you're the writer and creator, along with some other collaborators as well, but then on final destination two, you kind of became the executive producer. How do those sort of roles differ, and what was the change in responsibility like for that, in shifting from that writer to the producer for the sequel?
Speaker 2:this shift wasn't wasn't huge. What happened is I wrote the story for the second one, which was a lot of fun Cause I got to do a lot of stuff that I like doing, cause, you know we I wanted to set up like a group of teenagers and then kill them all off except for Kimberly, so you thought you were going to follow them and then kind of have the ripple effect of the survivors in this movie were tied to the fact that the people in the first movie cheated, death and also bring back some of the og players from the first movie. So I wrote the story for that one and eric bress and j mackie gruber, who had done a great movie called the butterfly effect, were brought on to to write that script and expand the story as well. And so the funny thing is I was still working this is how un-Hollywood I was is I was still working at the studio in New York when the first movie came out, when I wrote the story for the second one and then when I sold it, and then finally they were like Jeffrey, you've got a sequel coming out to like a hit movie, like you're a writer.
Speaker 2:Now you need to leave the nest, because I would have just stayed at new line, probably the rest of it, you know, not the rest of my life.
Speaker 2:I would have eventually left. But I would have just stayed there working you know, my day job in marketing and television, you know and not thought, oh, wow, I, you know I should do the hollywood thing and have left and and really moved to la and started really pushing and doing all the hustle that you need to do when you, when you sell a movie. So you know, I learned a lot. I had learned a lot anyway, and I was more involved on the creative side before the film started shooting on the first film than most writers are.
Speaker 2:So on the second film, I was just really involved in, like you know, the development of the script and, you know, discussing cast with people you know with, with the team, and then I went to visit the set, you know, for like a week and got got to see some of the. I didn't get to see the cool stuff on the crash because it was like the pickup it was picking up with like different people in their already overturned cars or you know, and things like that, but you know, it was just, it was cool, just to go behind the scenes and hang out with the director and see you know how he'd laid out the crash site on this huge, massive table with like little cars and little motorcycles and a little log truck and a little cop car.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it was just. It was just a lot of fun. But the thing I learned again this is from being at the studio too is like there is kind of the hierarchy. Like you know, once you sell a script, technically it's out of your hands, like they can do whatever they want with it. You have no say over anything.
Speaker 2:I've been very fortunate that I've made friends with, like you know, david Ellis, who worked on the second one, who who's no longer with us, unfortunately, but he worked on Bloodlines and the writers. So I've learned through on all my films like that. I get to know all the directors. It's not Machiavellian like, because I know their fear is that you're going to come on set and try to be like that. That's not what I wrote and technically when you sell a script it becomes the director's vision, unless they ask you to be a part of it, and so if I'm not asked to be a part of it, I still will be. You know, like with the director on tamra and steve minor well, steve minor wanted me to stay involved, but but even the directors on like tamra and stuff like that, I formed a relationship early on where they knew that I'm not going to come in and try to like undercut them in any way. Like I just love visiting set, being on set, watching them, learning from them. I've learned, that's taught me a lot of like skills that have been very useful.
Speaker 2:As far as being an executive producer or producer, you know, technically executive producer it's the titles are weird Like, technically an executive producer is somebody who's maybe involved in some of the creative decisions, but most of the time they bring in money. Like if you're just dealing with a film in general, if it's a studio film, obviously the studio is providing the money, so you don't have to worry about any of that. Producers can be anybody from. Sometimes you'll give somebody you'll give a A-list actor, a producer credit to have them be in the film, credit to have them be in the film. Producer, producer is somebody like Craig who from beginning to end you know, from the minute the idea starts being developed till the film is released is with it all the time, making sure everything is running smoothly, making sure everything, all the crew is hired. You're dealing with the studio, trying to keep them happy while also giving the filmmakers everything they need to make the film as good as possible. That's a, you know, a true, on the ground producer is like soup to nuts or whatever that phrase is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the ball. I forget what it is, but from the beginning to the end, they're like every day that it just consumes their life. They're probably under the director. They're probably Well. They're probably, yeah, director. They're probably well. They're probably, yeah, they're involved longer because they're there before the director comes on. But, aside from the directors, they're probably the busiest. Yeah, as far as, like putting out all the fires and dealing with all the, all the different elements that come together to make a film happen.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned as part of your role as producer, you had some influence on sort of the casting choices and things like that, and we had Ali Lata come back as Clear Rivers for number two.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I read somewhere as well that Devin Sauer wasn't available to come, but it sort of brings up the question to me about how inevitable death's sort of plan is in these movies. And looking at Final Destination 2, it is the only one in the franchise where we technically have two survivors that occur at the sort of end. So so what are your thoughts on the trajectory of those two characters, but also commenting as well on on devon sower's character of alex browning sort of dying off screen to a fateful brick accident as well? So what are your thoughts on those sort of?
Speaker 2:well, two thoughts, because in the story, in the story that I wrote, I brought them both back. Like they both came back and we couldn't get devon back. And you know I've I've made no bones and I think the people that have done the movie have probably been like, oh, if we could do it again, we would have not, you know, because he, alex, was the franchise final guy, so in my original story he actually survived the second movie as well, but then that changed the fates of some of the other people unfortunately. But yeah, it's, it sucked that we couldn't have it back and I just, you know, I know the second film leaned more into the comedy and the humor, but I really hated how they you know, it's kind of how they said kimberly died in a wood chipper, like I don't know, I don't, I don't you know, on the DVD extras of part three, it's like I don't know why you, you know, because when I see these movies, even if they're not my movies, like when I go see a movie like A Nightmare on Elm Street, like I fall in love with these characters and I want them to survive and I want them to win, and if they die, I think it needs to be done respectfully at least.
Speaker 2:Like you know, halloween resurrection, you know the way they killed Jamie Lee Curtis off and that was just like I don't care if the movie was a masterpiece after that. Like you completely, you know not even the fact that you killed her, but you killed her in such a stupid way. So it was the same thing with Alex. It's like a head in the brick, like really like that's just a smack in the face to the fans and to the character and to the actor. Really pissed me off, to be honest. But you know, I'm glad you know, because the whole idea with Final Destination is that you can't cheat death, but I I always wanted it to be that you could prolong your life.
Speaker 2:You know, like death is inevitable, but it doesn't have to be within the scope of the movie happening, and so that's why I was very happy with you know how kimberly and officer burke survived at the end of part two, which got me again annoyed in part three, because on the dvd extras they were like, oh, they got killed in a wood chipper and then, just by the nature of the films, we ended up having films where everybody dies at the end. So you know, I told the producer, like this is not like we're painting ourselves into a corner, first of all creatively, if you're just going to have everybody get killed at the end of all the movies. So that that was one of those.
Speaker 2:Since we were talking about it, like that was one of the notes I had for the writers on bloodlines, I'm like can we please make it canon that kim survived and Officer Burke is probably still alive too? Like they didn't mention him by name, but she was the visionary in that movie, so it would make sense that Tony Todd would mention her by name, but Officer Burke is probably alive as well because she broke the chain. That was the one thing I asked them if they would kind of give us clear, you know, kind of make official canon for the movie so that we do know that every movie is not going to end with everybody dying at the end of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's really good too, because it allows to get that investment as well and it's it's sort of asking the audience to look at the characters that are coming along through the film and thinking if they will survive or not.
Speaker 1:But I really like the you know, you can't cheat death theme that overarches the Final Destination franchise. I also like the fact that that can also be coupled with like you can choose how you live. So for me, when you're looking at Final Destination, it's almost like you know death is that inevitable thing, but what you do with that time that you have is really important. Like that's the kind of you know it's a fun horror movie. But you can kind of get messages from these kind of things that happen in the Final Destination movies as well, because there are a lot of themes that it sort of touches on. I was wondering if you could talk to me about some of those themes that sort of come and are presented to you, some that were intentional and some that maybe you've heard from other people that have watched the movies before.
Speaker 2:I mean, for me it was especially when I wrote the first one. You know, even starting from the story point of view, it was interesting. It was because things were different when the characters were older, because they were all dealing with different, because they're different ages, so they were all dealing with different things about their mortality. It's like I had a couple of older characters who were like you know, you know, in my original treatment, so they were a lot closer, you know, not that close as I get older, not that close, still a long time off. But you know, their perception, their perspective on life was a lot different than the teenagers that were more care. The younger characters are more carefree, but then when you make them all teenagers, then obviously there's a sense when you're that young, that you're invincible, and so all of a sudden you're, you're getting this death like thrust on you.
Speaker 2:And when I, you know, when I was young, at the time, you know like I again, I spent my, you know, from 19 I was, I wasn't sheltered because I was working at the studio but I was absorbing all the kind of business nuances and the marketing stuff and things like that. You know, I wasn't didn't necessarily write it like with a whole bunch of like subtextual stuff in it. You know it was important to like have this idea that you should, we need to live life to the fullest because you never know how long you're going to live. Like you know, I've had a lot of people in my life who died even before I wrote the script, who died way too young. And you know and I try not to, because my mom had me when she was 50, so my mom had me much later in life, but I didn't know it because she didn't tell us. You know, she just said I could have birthdays at 45. And so we just never knew how old she was until I was in my 20s and I went home and I found like her birth certificate.
Speaker 2:I'm like holy crap, because my mom was like up until her late 80s, was like great shape. You know she would, she could chase in high school Again, this is Kentucky back in the growing up, back in the eighties. But you know, if I did something wrong, I mean she would chase me down, she would make me go get a switch and she would whip me and she chased me to tough parental love. But it, it definitely, it definitely put us kept me and my sister on tracks. So for me, like, age is just a number in a way, because she lived to be 97. And so, even though I turned 56 in seven to eight days, I look at it like, oh, I'm only six years older, older than my mom was when she had me, so you know.
Speaker 2:So my perspective on life is is you got to live it to the fullest? As you get older, you start realizing there's so much that's out of your control and you have to be patient with people. But when tragedy strikes your life, the world doesn't stop. You know, and that's a hard one. Yeah, you know, I like when my like.
Speaker 2:I realize, because you live life and, and you know, we, you know we spend most of our lives just working, working, working to get by, survive, make ends meet, and that's kind of our, what we're taught is kind of how we, especially in this country, like. I know other countries have different models, but in America it's like work as many hours as you can to make sure you can feed your family and fuck you if you're complaining, you're lazy. But I realized, like, when I'm like. So I had this whole thing in my head, like I could never stop working. My mom got sick and passed away and I had to, and I just stopped everything for like a couple months, you know, so that my sister and I could, like you know, handle everything back home. And I learned in that moment like a the world didn't fall apart if I wasn't. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Completely in control of it.
Speaker 2:Like my world. The world didn't fall apart if I didn't, if I wasn't writing and turning shit in, like things, but also the world didn't. I mean, my friends cared and my family cared and you know, people that knew me cared that my mom passed away, because they knew that that our family is very tight, but the world didn't stop and say we're going to give Jeff a break. You know his mom died. So you just you learn a lot of life lessons.
Speaker 2:I think this isn't necessarily a lesson, but I think one of the things that I love is going to conventions and speaking at like schools and stuff where I'll meet parents who have introduced their kids to the final destination movies and it's become like a bonding thing, a generational bonding thing.
Speaker 2:Like I'll meet families where it's like you know their kid who is, you know, you know in their teens and then their kid who is, you know, probably maybe still a little too young. They'll let them watch like without the bloody parts, but it's fun to see like families kind of bonding over this film, like that's the thing that kind of makes me really happy is like because I I again, I know how, I know all the great things that horror can do as far as helping people deal with again, with trauma, deal with grief, deal with with issues that are troubling them, and also, on the artistic side, allowing people to express themselves. So for me, it's always just fun to see like the family bonding you know where it's like me and my son are bonding over this and I'm like, oh, you're a good dad, keep doing it.
Speaker 1:That's really good and first of all, thank you for sharing your story. And also, I can't imagine how rewarding it must be to go to conventions and things like that and have people talk about your creative work like that. As somebody who has drawn before does a podcast, I feel like that would be just such a rewarding experience. I was going to ask you what your sort of most valuable takeaway from your life and career and work on these movies has been, but we kind of touched on it there. So is there anything else that you'd like to add in that sort of space in terms of a takeaway that you'd like to share to our audiences, or do you think we've kind of touched on it with what you've said just there?
Speaker 2:I think we've definitely touched on on the takeaways. Yeah, I mean I again. I I do think out of important lessons, because I do tend to be like little gay Oprah when I get on podcasts and want to impart a few things. You know, I think you know and I'm not. And this isn't wrapping up, it's just like to finish on what you're always open to learning. Because I, when you stop growing or think that you've reached the peak of your like I'm the best there is at this, you're probably not a, but you're not going to be open to grow and this business is a business, unfortunately. So you keep doing your art and I think if you keep at it, people will find it and you will have, but you have it's.
Speaker 2:Persistence and patience are like the key things to like to hold on to and and also treating people well. Like going back to what I said about where the world is today. Like this, it's a. Any artistic world or any business world is pretty small and people will tolerate bad behavior if you're bringing them lots of money, but it's much better if you treat people with dignity and kindness, because the people that I grew up in the industry with are now like running studios and I wasn't nice to them because I was like someday they may run a studio and I may want to talk. You know, like I just treated them well, because that's how I was raised is to just treat everybody with respect, no matter where they come from or what their beliefs are. And so it's better to live your life that way, because you know it's much easier to sleep at night when you aren't so busy worrying about oh my God, I screwed all these people over. How am I going to cover, you know? Or the worst, where you just start becoming like where you don't care.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I can 100% agree with that. I think kindness is the best way to to approach a lot of situations. You mentioned before as well. You know persistence and sort of hard work in the in the space. Do you feel like horror as a genre has progressed since those days in the sort of 70s, 80s, 90s when, when horror sort of first started to become popular to to like now? For example, like sinners came out this year and that's gotten great critical acclaim as sort of a genre bending horror flick but then also like the Substance has been nominated for lots of different sort of Academy Awards. So do you feel like the landscape for horror is changing for the better in terms of that space? Is it getting more recognition?
Speaker 2:You know what I would like to think. So, because the thing that I've seen is again, I've been in the at this such a long time as far as like creatively and like obviously this is called show business. So the people that finance movies only care about the business side. Horror has always been the safest bet as far as getting a return on your investment. You know, like a good return on your investment if you you know, if you're talking to investors, like if you want to make money, if you want to guarantee you're going to make money, horror movies is the safest bet and it has had a lot of huge success.
Speaker 2:But you know you'll have classic movies like you look back and like the exorcist, you know it. You know, got academy nods, and so you see times in history where it seems like horror is starting to get respect. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, we're back. You know they're still making money off of it and they're still making a lot of them. But when you get to the area of respect, it's like, yeah, they're still not there yet. And then you know the substance. Yes, you know that's a great sign. Substance, yes, you know that's a great sign. And sinners. So glad it came out. But it's funny because you still get that pushback where, you know, I talk to people and I do this every time there's an original movie that comes out that normally nobody would make because it is a genre bending movie that also has, like, a mostly all-black cast, so those are like everything separately, like a kind of Western. You know, all black cast, mixed genre, musical, like all those things would be like if I tried to pitch that, they'd be like well now. So when it becomes a success, you're like look, this just shows you and they're like well, that's just because of Ryan Coogler and Michael B Jordan. I'm like that's why you made it.
Speaker 2:But the audience, yes, went to see that. You know, obviously that had some say in it, that had some say in why they went to see it. But it's still a different a completely. I loved it. But it is a unique, untraditional film that audiences could have very well rejected, you know, but they didn't because they want something unique. So I don't, I never know if they're going to take the right lessons from from what what comes out. Like Megan, too, like that movie has had huge brand awareness and huge marketing campaign, and Jason Blum has said it himself, so I don't feel bad saying it. But you know they decided to go in a completely different direction and make Megan to like an action, like a sassy you know memeable action movie as opposed to a horror movie, and the audience has stayed away. So it's like you would hope that they start respecting it more.
Speaker 2:It also comes down to like who's financing the movies no-transcript. He said something very and I was like fuck, if I didn't know that I'd been asking you to be in a bunch of movies, because you know, like you never know what's going on behind the scenes. But you know, I think the combination of the movie itself being clever and smart and then also having such great actresses and actors in it, but also maybe that personal thing about oh wow, that's why she hasn't been acting for so long, it wasn't because she wasn't on, she just quit. You know it's a tough business man and you know that's the sad thing. As artists we can be very not sensitive in like a meh kind of way. But you know, if somebody tells you like you know you're riding socks, yeah, your heydays are behind you, you know if I can pack it up and get out of here, like you know.
Speaker 1:No, I can see that as well, because I think a lot of artists especially sort of pour their their heart and soul into stuff as well, and it's a very sort of personal endeavor for a lot of creators. So I can definitely see how it would impact them and I'm just really glad that so many of them have sort of ventured forth and have their sort of passion fostered. And I hope to do it as well in my career as a teacher. But I just want to really, really thank you for your time, jeffrey. It's been an amazing conversation. I've learned so much from you and I just want to appreciate all the work that you've done in the industry and really just thank you for coming onto the podcast and having a chat with me today. I can't thank you enough.
Speaker 2:No, I really appreciate it and thank you. And thank you for being a teacher as well. Like I said, that's honestly, like that's one of the most noble professions in our world. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, thank you, thank you so much for that. I do appreciate it. So, all right, thank you very much. We'll see you later.
Speaker 2:Have a great day.
Speaker 1:You too, bye, take care.
