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The Fandom Portals Podcast
Zombieland (2009) Breaking Old Habits that Hold You Back | Becoming your True Self
Summary
In this episode, Aaron and Brash explore the film Zombieland, focusing on its themes of personal growth, trauma, and the importance of connection. They discuss how the characters navigate their fears and vulnerabilities, ultimately forming a found family in a post-apocalyptic world. The hosts reflect on the lessons learned from the characters' journeys and how they relate to real-life coping mechanisms.
Theme Arc: Becoming your True Self
Takeaways
Breaking old habits is essential for personal growth.
Zombieland illustrates the importance of vulnerability.
Characters in Zombieland represent different coping mechanisms.
Humor can be a powerful tool for healing.
Found family is a recurring theme in post-apocalyptic narratives.
Trauma shapes character behavior and relationships.
Connection is vital in overcoming fear and isolation.
Bill Murray's cameo serves as a moment of respite.
The film balances comedy with emotional depth.
Personal growth often requires breaking free from rigid rules.
Chapters
00:00 Breaking Free from Old Habits
01:06 Overview of Zombieland
02:18 Character Dynamics and Growth
08:31 The Most Valuable Takeaway
09:03 Jesse Eisenberg's Performance
11:19 Columbus's Rules and Vulnerability
13:34 Trauma Responses in Characters
18:15 Tallahassee's Journey
23:15 Emotional Connections and Humor
27:55 Wichita's Character Development
33:23 The Quest for Normalcy
36:09 Character Growth and Vulnerability
39:51 Rebuilding Connections
44:58 Moments of Respite
49:28 Best Scenes and Quotes
Sound Bites
"You have to blow off some steam in Zombieland." - Columbus
"Who's Bill Murray?" - Little Rock
"That's the worst goodbye I've ever heard." - Columbus
Apple Tags
Zombieland, personal growth, trauma, vulnerability, found family, coping mechanisms, humor, Bill Murray, character development, emotional connection
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What if the rules you lived by, the ones that keep you safe, are the very things that are holding you back? Does the arm of the ones protected you now limit you to who you want to be? In this episode, you'll learn how Zombieland from 2009 reveals that sometimes, to become your true self, you need to break the habits that once kept. Fandoms and film can help us learn and grow. I'm Aaron, a teacher and a lifelong film fan, and each week on the podcast, we explore the stories we love to learn more about ourselves and the worlds that shape us.
Speaker 1:Today, as usual, I'm joined by Brash. Hello everyone, I am Brash, big time nerd, and today we are here to do Zombieland from 2009. We're focusing specifically with this movie on our multi-themed arc on becoming your true self, where we're diving into the stories that break us free from expectation, silence and smallness, and stepping into the people we were truly meant to be. Whether it's dealing with grief or fear, as some of the characters in Zombieland do, or it is showing us that coping strategies that we developed while surviving really aren't good for helping us in the long run in living, we're going to look at it all today. Brash, do you want to give us a brief rundown of this movie before we jump into big discussion.
Speaker 2:Okay so Zombieland is set in a post-apocalyptic America run by the undead. Four unlikely survivors come together in search of safety and belonging. Columbus, a cautious and neurotic lover loner sorry, no, a lover, he's a lover Survives by clinging to his self-made rules of survival, but secretly longs for connection. His path crosses with Tallahassee, a tough, brash drifter, masking grief and loneliness behind sarcasm and a relentless quest for Twinkies. Their uneasy partnership grows more complicated when they meet sisters Wichita and Little Rock, skilled con artists who trust no one but each other. Initially at odds, the group navigates portrayals, danger and their own fears while traveling across country. Over time, they begin to let down their defenses. By the end, these strangers form a found family, realizing that in a world of chaos, the only way to truly live is to stop running from each other and face the future together.
Speaker 1:That was beautiful.
Speaker 2:When I wrote that, I was like wow, I made this movie sound good. Oh, it was beautiful.
Speaker 1:When I wrote that, I was like wow, I made this movie sound good, very true, I think the other like. We'll go to our thoughts now of this movie, because I think for me it's not one that I would say is one of my favorites, that's for sure, I think. When I watched this initially back in 2009, I thought it was pretty cool. It's obviously something that was coming out a lot during that time with zombie movies, which we might get into a bit later but I thought the dialogue was clearly like it was definitely made to be marketed and quoted and that line nut up or shut up it's like that was meant to be on a poster. It didn't sound sort of authentic or anything like that For me.
Speaker 1:I think that the zombie rules though that's in this movie is probably what set it apart and that's kind of become part of zombie canon. It's become part of every zombie conversation that you have with people now, and there are obviously some found family elements in this that are very appealing, like you mentioned too. But what are your thoughts, brash, on this movie when you first watched it way back in the day? And spoiler alert to our amazing fans and listeners Brash doesn't like this one.
Speaker 2:No, when I first watched it I thought, oh yeah, fun movie, it's all right, but to be honest, it's probably one of my least favorite zombie movies, like look at any of the dawn of the deads or the 28 days later. 28 weeks later, the new, 28 years later. That's fucking amazing. By the way and I just watched that recently even the resident evils I didn't like as much as I hated them because they didn't follow the games. They were still pretty decent. This one was yeah. This one was yeah. It was like a whole bunch of quips thrown into a like they run into like, except for the big horde at the end. They run into like one or two zombies here and there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's definitely a post-apocalyptic setting in that way. It's very sparse, and one of the notes that I have for my nitpicks later is that they don't really meet any other survivors. I think they do later in Zombieland at Double Tap, but it's just the four that sort of are the main characters here, where they have those found family kind of vibes, and, of course, the cameo from Bill Murray. They see Bill Murray, who is not a zombie. This one here is directed by Ruben Fleischer and it actually was on a budget of $23 million.
Speaker 1:It grossed $103 million, so it did make some money, but it came out in 2009, and, as we talked about before, there was a plethora of zombie movies that came out during that time. So there was obviously Shaun of the Dead in 2004, which is awesome, the better comedy zombie movie, absolutely. So this one, as well as shawn of the dead, mash up that comedy, uh, horror genre, which zombies movies do a lot of, because and there's also like warm bodies in 2013, which kind of did the wrong conversion of zombies, and then also there's um.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nicholas Holt is amazing, born to play a zombie. Really that guy yeah yeah, and then well yeah, brad Pitt's got his World War Z as well, which?
Speaker 2:and even that that, even that I didn't actually mind World War Z. I thought it was pretty good too. Yeah, like because it was a bit of a sort of different sort of take on on us, a little bit of this generalized zombie movie. They fall on like crawling up, like they used each other to get a lot smarter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that that movie was Brad Pitt's highest grossing movie until F1 sort of smashed it, so it's definitely a favorite of many, and that zombie sort of genre that we're talking about here was really popular, I think, post 9-11 and that recession era, because it gave everybody a way to cope with social anxieties and survival fears in a fun and sort of flexible way, and they blended it, as we said, with comedies and then action and romance, so it was almost like how they do Westerns or superhero movies. It was a phase where the zombie movie was the thing that you're going to go and romance. So it was almost like how they do Westerns or superhero movies. It was a phase where the zombie movie was the thing that you're going to go and watch. This one, however, zombieland is the third highest grossing zombie movie of all time, believe it or not.
Speaker 2:Do you know which one's the highest?
Speaker 1:Yes, I do, it's World War Z. Oh, okay, and the second one you might believe is Hotel Transylvania, which I don't know if it's a zombie movie, but it has a zombie in it, does it count?
Speaker 2:Tell us in the comments. Hotel Transylvania is like the first one. Who's the zombie?
Speaker 1:The guy dresses up as a zombie. He pretends to be a zombie to marry Mabel. It counts, it counts.
Speaker 2:I mean, I suppose, the director's undead, and so is the mummy it's time?
Speaker 1:I guess absolutely. If you disagree with that fandom portal community, feel free to comment.
Speaker 2:I wonder where 28 years is going to watch.
Speaker 1:I would say that's probably taken over it. I think I did these stats before that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sort of dropped into the streaming that was 20 years later is amazing and like there's, like now there's going to be a second one. Like 100%.
Speaker 1:Well, amazing and like there's. Like now there's going to be a second one. Well, yeah, I think they were talking about making that into a new trilogy. A trilogy, yeah, which I think is good, because they did go in a completely different direction from the usual two. I will confess, I've not seen any of them, so maybe they'll appear on the podcast in the future.
Speaker 1:We'll see how we go, they're really good. The reason we picked this one was because it does play off on those themes of breaking the old habits that do hold you back in our themed arc of becoming your true self. So in this movie we'll move into our most valuable takeaway. The most valuable takeaway we kind of got from this movie was that often, in order to protect ourselves in situations, we develop habits that then later on they often outlive their usefulness, and real growth begins when we can kind of recognize those patterns and find out that we do have the courage to break them, even if they sort of once kept us safe. So sometimes the strongest armor that we can have and the strongest armor that we wear is made from those habits, but then later on they used to hide our pain.
Speaker 1:So obviously we're talking about the character of Columbus played by Jesse Eisenberg here. He does develop a series of rules that he uses as a very habitual way to live his life. Now, before we get into that, I feel like Brash, you have some things to say about Jesse Eisenberg, so I'm going to give you the floor. How do you think he went in this movie?
Speaker 2:What do you think of him just generally as an actor? Spoiler alert fandom portals people, he has to be one of the worst actors I've ever had the pleasure of watching.
Speaker 1:The pleasure of watching, pleasure watching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I kind of agree like he just plays the same character in every role. He does just some weedy, know-it-all smart-ass prick who is always jittering, always looks like he's on the gear and just creepy as always. Just like has that creepy stare that creepy stare.
Speaker 1:Yes, I absolutely agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the only thing that I reckon he did really well, or the only character I think he's played really well, was his character in the Social Network. Yeah, mark.
Speaker 1:Zuckerberg. Mark Zuckerberg, yeah, because Mark Zuckerberg's also a dude. Well, it's almost like he plays those characters, because I don't want to make assumptions about his personality because I don't know him, but he seems very good at playing the same type of character and in interviews that I've seen him in he is also showing those kinds of traits. So, yeah, in this one he starts off as a loner, as we said in our synopsis and description, and he does this thing that's called experiential avoidance, which is a psychological pattern of evading uncomfortable truths, feelings or memories, and he does that quite rigidly and he sort of sticks himself into these routines that keep him safe. But it blocks him from growth and limits his flexibility.
Speaker 1:So obviously some of these rules include beware of bathrooms in the apocalypse, which is kind of logical, I guess, and very survival orientated.
Speaker 1:But then it also goes down from as whimsical as that to something like rule 17 of don't be a hero, which obviously he ends up breaking in the long run.
Speaker 1:But the don't be a hero, which obviously he ends up breaking in the long run. But the don't be a hero and check the back seats and all those kinds of things really limit his ability to connect with other people in a world that's gone to hell, and also, as we said in our synopsis, he is a character that seems to yearn for that connection, and you can see that when he meets the character of Tallahassee on the bridge and I do kind of like that scene where he's scared and hiding behind the motorbike and eventually, from the shotgun, he just pulls out the thumb like the hitchhiker's thumb and then he's like, yeah, get in the car. But yeah, that was just a really great interaction between those two characters. And then as soon as he gets in the car, you know Woody Harrelson's Tallahassee's got. He's like you know, I'm sensing that, you know, you're a little bit of a bitch, so here's the rules that we're going to go by.
Speaker 2:Woody Harrelson saved this movie for me. Yeah, the only reason why it's like it's I reckon the only reason why it's funny is because of Woody Harrelson and everyone playing off of Woody Harrelson.
Speaker 1:Well, I saw in the director's commentary that the characters well, the actors that decided to come into this movie Woody Harrelson and Jesse Eisenberg they were drawn to the script because, apart from it just being like an action smash zombie movie, they felt that the characters and their interactions throughout actually showed that they were having a little bit of growth through that movie. Which is kind of what I wanted to talk about in this podcast, through this movie as well, was because they do start off as characters that have experienced a massive trauma in the form of the world going post-apocalyptic and they have both all of the characters the main four have kind of reacted to that post-apocalypse in a very different way, but there are also ways that has presented in people's lives, in the real world. So, as we talked about, columbus is very rigid to his routines and he's experiencing that experiential avoidance. Tallahassee does something that a lot of men do, I think, is when you experience the trauma and his one is definitely a very substantial trauma he gets very loud and violent and masks in ways that very showboaty you might say, for lack of a better word he's out there trying to do zombie kill of the week and he's very outwardly aggressive and he's firing guns everywhere. It's very like masculine in terms of his outward portrayal, as opposed to him showing any kind of vulnerability, which does come later.
Speaker 1:And then, uh, witcher tar and little rock both go through the same thing, where they've got that emotional detachment. Whenever you see them getting close to somebody, either rob them and steal their stuff or they take off and they go before they get close to anybody, which is probably the one that I kind of relate to the most, if I'm going to get a bit personal about it. But I do think that these characters do go through a particular journey through this movie and, although it's probably not the best one, it does exemplify that long-term suffering that sometimes people go through when they've gone through something hard and they've developed really bad habits that then end up over controlling who they are or stopping them from committing to anything in the future, which can be detrimental and can be very hard to work through as well. So I think that these characters do grow. Do you see that growth too brash?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's what I was watching, because I tried to make sure I focused on watching them sort of grow, but like, and as much as like they do show those parts and they do get better, like at the very end of the movie, like realistically, all the jesse eisenberg's character does at the end is just add a new rule which is like every now and then enjoy the little things enjoy the little things, that's. He just added a rule, so he's already long missed the rules.
Speaker 1:But he also breaks his rules. That's the big thing he does as well he does drive with a seatbelt once yeah, and he also becomes a hero. That's the big one that he sort of breaks in this one too, when he goes and obviously rescues the girls from the ride and leaves tallahassee basically to go to the theme park and follow them after they've left, at the very end of the movie.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, he's one that's like we have to go help them. Well, we have to go find them. I guess, realistically, they didn't know they were in trouble until they got there and saw zombies. And then we're like, oh shit, now we're talking about zombies. But realistically I reckon the person who's more heroic is Tallahassee, because he's the one that draws pretty much the almost the entire order of zombies to him. And then Jesse just has to fight off a couple and then that clown which is overcoming his own fear too because I fear clowns, but still, like he does, like.
Speaker 2:I don't think he to say that he broke his rule of not being like. I don't think he to say that he broke his rule of not being a hero. I don't think he did it Like something I would consider like overly heroic, not so much like putting himself in front of a zombie and becoming a zombie or dying on the flat.
Speaker 1:No, I think Taylor Hasse does a lot more than Jesse Eisenberg's character does.
Speaker 2:I would have liked maybe there would have been like another, like another rule that he had, but maybe if he was wearing long sleeves or something like that, a long sleeve shirt or something like that you find out that underneath he's got body armor on or something like that or some sort of padding. It could be like a rule where you protect the soft spots or something. Yeah, yeah, and he could have pushed which side of the way or something like that and gotten bitten on the arm and someone wanted him on a bitten arm and then when they looked he's got pain there to protect him. But he still took that shot for her or something like that, did something a bit overly grandiose, because the whole movie they've been going through killing zombies and at the end for him to be heroic and save the girls, he had to kill some zombies.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, actually in the commentary for this as well, they tested this movie with test audiences and beforehand they didn't have many of the scenes in where the four main characters were sort of connecting on a personal level. And after they did the test screen or they did have them actually, but then the director wanted to remove a couple of the sequences that involved them actually, you know, talking together and building that connection and breaking down the barriers. But the audience actually really responded well to the fact that they were becoming closer as a, as a sort of found family that'll make the ending weird too.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, it would have changed a lot of what sort of happened toward the end and them actually coming back to save the girls as well. But with tallahassee, when he actually went and drew those zombies away and shut himself in that box and did that scene, which was very cowboy, like beforehand, he was actually going through and you know, seeking out those zombies and destroying them and very aggressive and sort of what's the word I'm looking for here like macho kind of way, in this sort of anger, workaholic, almost like he had to go out and do it because he didn't want to sit for a moment and reflect on what he'd lost. The tracking down of the Twinkie as well can be sort of mirrored in the reflection of him trying to find a sense of normalcy. That happened to him before the zombie apocalypse, when his son was with him.
Speaker 2:Gives himself like a motivation or something to keep going forward instead of just giving up.
Speaker 1:Exactly Just like a tangible one. But that moment that he drew the zombies away from Columbus, I think it's a bit subtle. And in the director's commentary Jesse Eisenberg also says you know, this was the scene when he went and saw the car in the river and Tallahassee drew the zombies away. He thought that that scene, jesse Eisenberg thought that scene, wasn't very strong enough to portray the message that Tallahassee was actually performing an element of self-sacrifice there, where he was drawing those zombies away so Jesse could go and save the girls. Because in that moment he wasn't actually doing it out of bravado, he was doing it out of sacrifice, and I think that that can get missed. It sacrifice, and I think that that can get missed.
Speaker 1:It's not as strong as it should be, but that's a big moment for that character too, because for the first time in forever he'd opened up about the fact that he lost a son before and saying that it was a dog, but then now he's willing to also put it all on the line for these other people that he had brought into the fold as well.
Speaker 1:And one of my favorite moments of the movie between Tallahassee was when he did tell them about his son Buck and how he lost him to the zombies. The very next scene after that was him starting to build more of a connection with Little Rock when he was teaching him to shoot. That was probably one of the better scenes, and that's just almost really subtle as well. It's not like an intimate emotional where they're bonding as father and surrogate daughter, it's just literally a routine or a thing that they're doing together. But then there's that slight callback at the end where she learns to exhale and calm herself down and she uses what Tallahassee teaches her to save their lives. So there is those small nods of connection which does sort of draw it back to me to the fact that these guys are growing throughout this movie and breaking some of the habits that they had previously had in a very sort of subtle way.
Speaker 2:Actually I was just thinking about it too Honestly. You can take Jesse Eisenberg out of this movie and it'll still be probably a better movie if it was just the girls and Woody Harrelson, because he instinct instinct sort of could have kicked in. That's why he softened up to let them come with him and then they robbed him. So he gets angry, goes back and finds them and then finds them in trouble and helps them out again and they're like look, we can just help each other and then I honestly think he's included in the movie as well for the purposes of Wichita's character.
Speaker 1:Wichita's yeah, when they cast that character it wasn't initially going to be Emma Stone.
Speaker 1:She was actually cast as 406, which was the role that went to Amber Heard in this movie, and because she was so impressive, they were just like, okay, we'll put her in as Wichita instead, because she just blew the guys away and for her and her growth, she obviously had that avoidance through any kind of connection and survival instinct and she ended up opening herself up to Jesse Eisenberg's character and the thing that they said was that his character of Columbus was a hard sell for audiences because they had to believe that he was so nerdy that he would isolate himself to the point of being that reclusive and having these rules and habits that are so regimented.
Speaker 1:But he also had to be smart enough to survive a zombie apocalypse, which he does state he's an unlikely survivor. But he also had to be cool enough to be able to charismatically become a character like Emma Stone's Wichita yeah. So that was like a big grasp for the audience to sort of get. But I think his character definitely played a part in her growth, where she started to become more connected and less distracted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Do you know who would have been a great Columbus? Nicholas Holt? See, that would have been good too. That would have been good. I would have enjoyed that, because I can see him being the dirty guy. He's also fairly good looking, or really good looking. I reckon he could have pulled it off.
Speaker 1:I think so too. No-transcript system trying to do its job and protect the child. So when they have to adapt to stress that they can't control, they create coping mechanisms, which is what a lot of these characters have done, and they can persist into adulthood too. So, for example, we have Tallahassee, who's mirroring violence through aggression and defiance. We have, you know, class clown behavior as well, which sometimes happens in classrooms and schools after a student's gone through any kind of trauma, like they're that distracting behavior which is like the twinkie, the distraction of the twinkie just like I'm hiding trauma behind comedy and yep as well yep, never connecting with anyone, always holding them at a sort of face value because you're, you're the, you're the person that makes everybody laugh, instead of them actually seeing who you really are.
Speaker 1:There's that emotional withdrawal and avoidance which Wichita and Little Rock does, so they don't want to get hurt by anybody, so they don't make any connections or any friends in the schoolyard or with any adults or teachers or anything like that. And then there's also like a rigid strictness to habits and routines. So if anything changes in a classroom, you can see some eruptions in behavioral episodes that happen from that as well. The classroom you can see some eruptions in behavioral episodes that happen from that as well. And what they do in this movie is they build a little bit of emotional literacy and they create a really safe environment between each other where everything's predictable towards the end. They have some consistent routines through driving with each other, staying up and keeping watch, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:But they also prioritize connecting with one another, as they have that moment of downtime in Bill Murray's mansion and they also build that emotional literacy through being able to talk to each other about the things that they've gone through as well. I mean there's a moment between Columbus and Wichita where they get very close about some of the things that have happened in their past and some of the rejection that they've felt from members of the opposite sex before as well. And then obviously the big drop of Tallahassee and his son occurs. And then the thing that kind of annoyed me about this movie, but also I kind of liked, was the fact that they'd give a deep drop like that and then Tallahassee would sort of say something like I haven't cried this much since Titanic and then wipe his eyes with $100 bills. So it balances that traumatic discussion with comedy as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes it so you can feel the surging issues, but then in a lighter mood, so it doesn't put you just in a downer mood.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it takes the emotional weight off you basically. So it's like here's the part you need to connect with these characters and to show that they're kind of growing and getting closer.
Speaker 2:But then also here's the laugh as well, but let's not get down about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, let's not linger on that for too long. Yeah, I thought that one of the best parts of this movie was any of the time that they were road tripping, basically when they were sitting in the cars and driving, and then it was the smash cuts of them just moving seats, obviously showing the passage of time, and they were just sort of connecting as people. And Abigail Breslin I think her name is the one that plays Little Rock just started talking to Woody Harrelson about Hannah Montana. Apparently that was completely a genuine conversation as well and they were just sort of connecting in that space, but it worked for those two characters as well sweet, she's that character and that she's two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So any sort of interaction with woody harrison and any other cast is probably like my favorite interaction, like it's just always genuinely funny and just yeah, I think he's his timing and comedic sort of presence is really good for the movie too, but he also has the range to go into spaces that are pretty emotional as well. So with him he's obviously he said let's talk about tahasi in a couple of his scenes because he he kind of serves as that group's muscle, he's, he's the comic relief. But he's also ravaged by the loss of his young son and he talks about you, the dog that he lost at first. So he wants you can see that it's all sort of on the edge, like he wants to feel that connection, he wants to tell people about it and I'm not sure if Columbus sort of acts as like a best friend or a younger brother towards him, but he kind of fills the role of like a confidant, I guess. Yeah, it's kind of hard to pick what that sort of, or friends. Basically they just seem like very two unlikely friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think that's what I would have liked a bit more. Because it seems like Little Rock became sort of like a daughter and he sort of like sent some sort of father figure to her and then even with Wichita was like some sort of um, like, maybe like uncle or even like brother sort of sort of vibe between those two and then with but with for columbus it was hard to pick whether it was like. Yeah, it was hard to pick whether he was like sort of like a father figure, or if he was sort of like a brother figure, or if he was just a friend or like the weird crazy uncle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he definitely gave those vibes.
Speaker 2:It's sort of like he gave them all in one, yeah, yeah, like. At times he was sort of like acting like the father figure. And then there's other times where it was more like a brother, where he'd like make snide comments and make fun of him and shit like that, like a brother would. And then there's other times where he's like more of a friend, where he like he was just there to help him out.
Speaker 1:It was an undefined, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, because they talk about like girls and things like that, but then it's not like trying to fill all the roles, yeah, and he'd protect his emotional vulnerabilities as well, because you know vulnerabilities as well. Because when Columbus was actually going back to Columbus and Wichita was saying like there's nothing there, tallahassee sort of like tapped her on the shoulder and gave her that look like, come on, what are you doing? You're going to actually break his heart here. And then they both kind of it almost seemed like Wichita and Tallahassee were emotionally as mature as each other and they were kind of holding the other two together in that space as well. And I think that that was part of that connection and that growing connection was a really big moment for them to start to build trust and then break down those barriers and ends up with Tallahassee's first unintentional step towards being vulnerable at least was when he was talking about the dog that he lost with Columbus and then eventually it slips, it slips later that he reveals that it was his son. So, yeah, I think that that and the Pacific Playland shootout scene was very big for Tallahassee because he was fighting earlier to just let off steam, basically, and that became one of Columbus's rules as well.
Speaker 1:Sometimes in Zombieland you've got to let off steam and you see him like shooting bullets into the sky or driving massive hummers around and painting big threes on the cars that he finds and things like that.
Speaker 1:But then eventually he ends up fighting to protect.
Speaker 1:And it's because, especially for little rock as well, because he he's protective of that sort of relationship that he has, and in the end Little Rock also reciprocates that by throwing him the Twinkie that he'd been looking for so much and that to me was kind of symbolic of how he was always looking for that Twinkie to get that sense of normalcy again and that sense of what things were like before, whether it was like trying to relive something from the past.
Speaker 1:But he then sort of received something from someone that he cares about. After he thought he lost her again as well because she was driving away, and it kind of fulfills that like emotional need that it was. It always represented a little bit more for him, like the twinkie represented connection and and memory and sort of family and he got that from her as well, but for her as well it was good for him to get it from her, because she was then sort of thinking about somebody else, yeah, and besides her sister, exactly besides her sister. Yeah, perfect, because, yeah, it was just a very nebulous relationship between those two before as well yeah, it was only like she, she was only trusted her sister like didn't trust anyone else.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and now is able to sort of trust and you know, talk, go off with talasi and talk to him and do their own thing. Or go to the movies and watch a movie um columbus without her sister there and stuff like that and you know watch, watch columbus fucking shoot bill murray and kill a legend.
Speaker 1:Another reason why hsd eisenberg kills bill murray jesus absolutely you know, side note as well, when Woody Harrelson was in the scenes with Bill Murray like they're obviously very close friends but apparently in the commentary he was saying that he didn't really have to act in the scene where he was like geeking out over Bill Murray, because that's all the things that he feels about him anyway, because he's such a legend in the space. So it was one take and he said everything that he wanted to say.
Speaker 2:Just got everything off his chest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. So. Yeah, tallahassee kind of went from. He learns to make peace with the fact that he had gone through this big loss and he's open to the fact that he is allowing himself to care again. Does he have a long way to go? Absolutely, but I think that he is on the path of becoming his true self through, like healing the pain of the past by connecting with others and dropping the masculine bravado that was sort of holding him back there, because, yeah, he does definitely have that living within him. But, that being said, watching him kill a zombie with a banjo was awesomely cool. Yeah, yeah, 100%. That was also Woody Harrelson's idea to play the banjo and to play the dueling banjo tune. But as you entered the, the shopping center, that was woody harrelson's idea and he actually he pitched it and then the director said that's a great idea. And then he goes okay, cool, now I'm gonna go learn the banjo. So he had to learn that actual part for the movie, but I thought that was good with witch guitar as well.
Speaker 1:We'll move on to a little bit of her. She was kind of the. She was emotionally distant. We're never really sure of why. We just know they've probably lost a lot of people, like, obviously, little rock and wichita, and, yeah, they have this habit of isolating each other and that no longer serves them, because when they isolate for the last time, they go to pacific playland, and I think Wichita is trying to recapture some youthful experiences for her sister and that's why they make the really dumb decision to go and turn on all the lights and the music at this theme park.
Speaker 2:Yeah, back when they were happy, because even before the zombie apocalypse they were alone running scams because they only had each other. That's true. Yeah, that's right, because I don't think it actually says. But you know, they must either lost their parents or their parents abandoned beforehand and like the adventure play park was the like sort of last time that they probably had, were there with their family and probably last time that they were really like just normally normal, happy kids, which I think she says to the other guys why they're going there is to give a sister some sort of memory of like bring back some memory when they're happy, normal kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and together, and also for her, I think it might have also been a hearkening back to a time when she was having to be less protective of Little Rock in that sort of protective role, because she was obviously a big sister as well. But raising her little sister kind of made her become this hyper-protective role model in a very lawless world and I think her journey comes from her learning that strength can also include vulnerability. For her, so obviously that connection was something that she didn't really like and the habit that she needed to break was that she was just moving on from everything very, very quickly and putting them in dangerous situations where they would only rely on each other and never anybody else, which they obviously break when they meet Columbus and T. With Columbus and reveals her name to be Krista because that's what Tallahassee said at the start of the movie he's like no, we're not using real names. Real names mean attachment, no way. And she's the only character that reveals her real name as being Krista.
Speaker 1:And that's that connection and that vulnerability she's showing to Jesse Eisenberg to say you know, I want you to get to know me now, which is definitely something she wasn't doing before, but she is now a person that wants to be known, instead of being a person who is an alias, but also running at the sign of every form of connection that they make, and it goes back to that dream of normalcy that they're all chasing as well and that sort of safe space of connection as well, which I think they end up all learning that they're all finding that they're looking for the past in, like a Twinkie or a place, but they end up finding the past within each other, like within the connection and the family that they feel with each other. So I guess comfort is that feeling that they're looking for, as opposed to the things that make them feel comfortable in their past, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, besides that one part where, like she didn't like, cause I don't have anything which time is really one of the least explored characters of all of them. I feel like she gets less out of the whole entire thing than all the others do. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:She gets a relationship with Jesse Eisenberg, and that was what I was about to say. She serves as a character's purpose in terms of allowing Jesse Eisenberg to feel that connection and break some of his rules, obviously. But she is very much seen as a character through his lens and his eyes. He always wants to brush the hair over her ears. So she's like that attainable goal of connection that he's seeking. But for her herself we don't really know what her goals and ambitions are beyond just protecting her sister, wanting to be seen and loved and vulnerable for who she is.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I agree, it's very overshadowed by a lot of other things that we're looking at in terms of her character. So I liked that. Her scene of enjoying the little things goes back to tallahassee's mantra where they're sort of embracing that joy and connection, where they're dancing with one another with the wine as well. Yeah, that was a good scene between those two that showed that sort of budding connection between and that was apparently the test screen between jesse eisenberg and the female characters that sort of came in to play that role and they found that Emma Stone was like outwitting Jesse Eisenberg and being really sort of charismatic and they kind of wanted that for her character, emma Stone's an amazing actress.
Speaker 2:She fits the Wichita role. Don't know if I could really pick anyone else who could play. Was she 2009? Yeah, 2009. 2009, back then, anyone else who could really, I would say, play that role?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I definitely agree. I think that she was definitely the big sort of draw for this movie as well. I think Emma Stone became really big after this as well, from 2009 onwards. But yeah, I think Emma Stone became really big after this as well, from 2009 onwards.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I think the hardest thing to come to audiences was, as we said before, believing that Jesse Eisenberg's Columbus would be charismatic enough to charm an Emma Stone kind of character in this space. So, especially with his compulsiveness at the time, and he kind of had to build himself up or change himself to be able to connect with these other people, because he saw that those routines that he was making and those rules that he was having was really playing a part in Distancing him, absolutely Distancing him between him and his other survivor friends at this point. So he actually had to choose to take a risk over his rules to then actually end up having him to believe in something else, which was him breaking his habits of control, which can be tricky as well. So with Little Rock, it also comes back to the fact that she's looking she was a character that had to grow up too fast as well, I feel.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%, even before the zombies, though. Absolutely. She had to learn to play again. She had to learn to trust again. She had to learn to have that emotional safety again, which I think is important for those scenes where they are traveling in the car and she gets to talk about kids' stuff, or even when they're smashing the shop together. That's like she has the right to be young. In that space she can go and smash some things around and have some fun.
Speaker 2:And basically had to learn to be a kid again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, she had to build that confidence with the people that she was with and she was able to do that because Tallahassee did sort of take that sort of fathership figure and that role of responsibility for her.
Speaker 1:And I think Tallahassee also took that responsibility off Wichita, which was good, because then it allowed her to play less of that protective role for her sister and then become who she was supposed to be as well. So that connection is definitely foregrounded in having them being able to to build those habits together and she represents that rebuilding of the emotional structure between all of the characters, because she's able to, you know, have those moments of joy and freedom and fun as a child and then the other older characters sort of look at her experiencing those emotions and are then able to sort of believe in that again in this space of, you know, a not so nice post-apocalyptic zombie world. And yeah, and she's not wrong for wanting that kind of joy. I think that she is definitely, she has a right to it. But she also then doesn't know what real support looks like in terms of a family unit, from what it seems like anyway. But she does represent that sort of lost innocence and normalcy. But she does get that back in the end, which is good to see.
Speaker 1:So I think they all do grow brash, even if it is just a little bit, and you have to kind of look deeper sometimes to to find it yeah, and so I said, like all grew, like all of them had that growth, I suppose even columbus a little bit yeah I I agree with you, though I think his journey could have been a little bit more represented if they were going for that message, because through test audiences they did find that that connection, that growth, was what they liked about this zombie movie, as opposed to it being just a regular action zombie flick. So if they leaned into that a little bit more and just sort of showed how that main character grew that little bit more, I think it would have landed a little bit.
Speaker 2:Because I would have liked it for him to have, instead of adding a few more rules that are meant to lighten it up, he should have changed some of his rules. I would have found that more significant for him to actually change the rules rather than just add a couple more that allow himself to have a bit more fun.
Speaker 1:I think that would have been more reminiscent of the fact that he's sort of getting rid of these habits that no longer serve him, because I think he would very much still believe in the fact that rule number one of Zombieland is cardio. He will always put his seatbelt on when he drives a car. He will always. Apparently there was a rule as well that was like keep everything in Ziploc bags.
Speaker 2:That was one that kind of got deleted. There's one here. Rule two Ziploc bags. You've got enough problems. Moisture shouldn't be one of them.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and that's why actually they were going to make that more prominent. But in the commentary they said that they sort of scrapped that one in favor of others. But that's why at the end scene, when he's going to fight the clown, you'll notice that he goes to pull his bullets out of his pocket and they're in a Ziploc bag and he throws the Ziploc bag away.
Speaker 2:I was actually wrong, though he did change one from don't be a hero to something else.
Speaker 1:To be a hero, yeah.
Speaker 2:He changed it from don't be a hero to be a hero.
Speaker 1:I think that needs a caveat on the end of it. To be a hero to those that matter, kind of thing. Yeah, you know, I think if he goes in as a hero to everyone that he finds, that's probably just as damaging in this situation. So the thing we haven't mentioned as well is a lot of the time. If so, the thing we haven't mentioned as well is a lot of the time if you're talking about breaking habits that no longer serve you.
Speaker 1:For people that are going through these kinds of things, usually the healing comes after the traumatic event, and these characters are very much still in a traumatic event.
Speaker 1:So they're growing through a traumatic event, and I think that the amounts of small growth they're doing can be representative.
Speaker 1:But it's also important to sort of know that it's very hard to do either in the screen or in real life. So it's just a matter of really doing what's best for you in the moment and then taking obviously account of where you are in terms of your personal growth, I guess as well Actually, I did want to talk about the Bill Murray scene a little bit more and just how much that sort of it gives them that moment of respite, I guess you could say. And I remember feeling this the first time when I was watching Lord of the Rings with my dad in the cinemas, right, and I know it's weird to compare Zombieland to Lord of the Rings because you know one's a masterpiece and this is Zombieland, but the first part of the movie, when you know Frodo and all them are in the Shire, feel very safe and then they leave the shire and I actually felt terror for the first time in a movie cinema ever in my life, like I was gripping the seat, I was actually really, really scared and then, yep, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And then in the middle of the movie, when he was at rivendell, I had a moment to like, oh, like breathe, and I feel like that's what this bill murray sort of scene was akin to.
Speaker 1:It was that moment for all the characters to really show their first real emotional exhale, you might say, and the characters could indulge in like fantasy in a post-apocalyptic world and they could enjoy the things from the past, including Ghostbusters and all the different foods and Monopoly and sleeping in a bed and wine and dancing, and it was a pause from everything that was sort of going on.
Speaker 1:So that's akin to me to creating those really safe environments for people to be able to begin to heal in. And you can do that in your life or you can do that in the classroom as well, but that's usually the very first thing that we sort of go through as teachers is you've got to make your classroom a really safe space, because then it allows all watered and they feel like you're going to give them a good crack. So I think that it's definitely one of those moments for them in this movie. When they're able to do that, they get that sort of moment to build some awareness of what's sort of going on and take account from each other, because that's when all of those connecting conversations sort of happen, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's Bill Murray ofray. Bill murray gives you a safe space to be who you want to be.
Speaker 1:That is, that is what bill murray encompasses yeah, and obviously all of his movies from the past can be comfort movies for people as well. But I I just love how, even even in that moment of safety, they kind of still just reel it back to the fact that they're in a post-apocalyptic world because bill murray gets shot. Death is still apparent. They begin to feel that the outside world sort of impressing on them again. But you know what was really good about that? Tallahassee obviously met his hero, met his idol, and he is shot by columbus, who he just made a friend with. And not once did anybody chastise columbus, not once they tell him off, not once did they tell him he was an idiot. They were just like you know what. That was probably really stupid of us to do. But then that goes back to that fact that it's connection over correction. They could have straight away broken that emotional bond and be like what the heck are you doing? Columbus, you absolutely killed a legend, six people alive in the world. One of them's Bill Murray.
Speaker 2:Not anymore, yeah, but legend, six people alive in the world one of them's, bill murray not anymore, yeah, but but I think that was sort of good too. I also do like the fact that, in a way, they made it seem like bill murray is such a good actor that he can dress up like a zombie, yeah, and pass off a zombie when realistically thinnest line in the movie realistically, it's probably like they probably can like sense that you're.
Speaker 2:It's similar to the Shaun of the Dead when they're in the Shaun of the Dead, where they always pretend to be zombies it's like they can sense a warm body or something you don't know, in warm bodies, like at least he had to wipe his own blood on her so that so she didn't smell alive. This is just like nah, he's just such a great actor. He just puts some paint on some face paint on Creamy juice. Creamy juice. Yeah, and he can fool all the zombies, if anyone can do it.
Speaker 1:It's Bill Murray, all right. So for me, best scene was Bill Murray getting shot. That was awesome, definitely gave a laugh to me. But I also really loved any scene and they were in the car road tripping and because they were able to riff off of each other too. What was your favorite scene?
Speaker 2:My favorite scene I think it had to be the grocery store scene with Woody Harrelson just going ham on all the zombies in the grocery store, and probably the end scene with him as well, when he's doing the last dance.
Speaker 1:Yeah lining up all these bullets. Yeah, all the slow motion, all the different gun poses.
Speaker 2:No, that's probably the two of my favorite things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, I have two best quotes for me. The first one was actually a Columbus quote, a Jesse Eisenberg quote, which apparently was ad-libbed, and he said you almost knocked over your alcohol with your knife when he was first met him in the car. I just thought that's like a that's just what you know imagine saying that in a real life setting it just doesn't happen. So I thought that was really good. Following that it was also ad-libbed from jesse eisenberg, where he was taking the shot and he threw it out the window and then continued to think it was really nice. That was apparently just yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I also like the quote where he's talking about tallahassee and he says Tallahassee firmly believes that you have to blow off some steam in Zombieland or else you'll lose what's left of your mind. And then it shows him smacking the shit out of a car with the bat or shooting bullets into the sky. It's like, okay, or you'll lose what's left of your mind. Yeah right, he's obviously lost it a little bit there too. Obviously lost it a little bit there too.
Speaker 2:But I thought those two lines were really good. What about yours? My two favorite lines is one with Tala. Like both of them are to do with Tala Hassid, because Tala Hassid is just so quote all this. But when he's talking to Little Rock and Little Rock's and they're talking about Bill Murray and Little Rock's like who's Bill Murray? I've never seen a kid before. He's like asking who Gandhi is. And then she's like who's Gandhi? Yeah, I have to like walk away because he's so angry. And then, while he's walking to Columbus and when they're going to go their separate ways and he's like not great FOLs that'll do pig.
Speaker 1:That's the worst goodbye I've ever seen and it was from a different movie.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah that, that's the worst goodbye I've ever seen and it was from a different movie. Oh yeah, that was the worst goodbye I've ever heard.
Speaker 1:You stole it from a movie. I think that that quote shows he's like he doesn't want to connect again.
Speaker 1:You know he doesn't want to connect and he's sort of doing the yo-yo of being attached with and also pulling away. I think they're two really good quotes. But can I just say that quote you said from Abigail Breslin, little Rock, where she's like who is Bill Murray and who is Gandhi? I probably go through that at least three times a week in my job because I'm at an age now where I'm very disconnected from what is quote marks in with the hip young generation. So I'll say something as I'm teaching and I'll be like just go straight over the head and I'll be like that would have killed 10 years ago guys. So yeah, I'm definitely feeling my age there. So let's rate it. What'd you give this out of five stars, mr Brash? Two, two. Yeah, that's fair Solid two. One for Woody Harrelson and the other one for his knife. I give it two stars as well. Brash, two stars. I think that's very fair. Let's see where it sits on our leaderboard Okay.
Speaker 1:It is tied last Makes sense. So we've got at an average of two votes. We've got red one and Jersey Girl, so I can sit above both of those, below both of those or in the middle.
Speaker 2:What's currently lowest Red one.
Speaker 1:Jersey Girl is lowest. I gave it two, you gave it 1.5. And then red one. I gave it it three and you gave it one I should.
Speaker 1:I reckon I can be above them both okay, I think, anyway, better than red one, but yeah, okay. So it sits 23rd on our fandom portals on a board, which means this is probably the last time we're going to mention it ever again. Do you have any rules for zombie land that you would impl Brash? Because we got some from our community that I will read out now. Proto's account says that cardio is a good one, checking bathrooms is a good one. A lot of the rules in Zombieland are just dumb, though, is what he said. Dead Eye Duncan says you need waterproof shoes and an extra pair of socks. That's some.
Speaker 2:Forrest Gump vibes there Must look after your feet.
Speaker 1:Ironic that Lieutenant Dan was the one that said that and he lost his feet. We have the. I am the captain now who is on our threads. Community said that body armor. Why doesn't anyone put any body armor on? I'd be walking straight in like Heath Ledger from A Knight's Tale. I'd be kitted up.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'll probably go that far because he needs a dexterity well, yeah, it goes back to that cardio rule, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:you need your cardio, but you also. I think that would play into your a bit of padding, wouldn't go astray, it'd go into your preserved, ending there with where you said that he should have taken a bite to prove his sacrificial loyalty. You know it says from current events. 134 says only stay in buildings or rooms with doors that open outward instead of opening inward. So I think that's a very logical move.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it'll protect you for a little while at least, because you have your door jam, you have your doorstop all on the inside.
Speaker 1:And there's another one here from Captain Maticus, which I think is pretty logical and the one we're going to end on. But he says more people need to use bikes in a zombie apocalypse, like push bikes, a bicycle and have a repair kit. He says most of the rules in this movie were good, but I don't know why people never use bikes in a zombie apocalypse. They're either relying on walking or finding a horse or finding a vehicle that works, but bikes are quiet and they're much faster than walking or running and they're fairly utilitarian as well. So I think there's some merit to that. We need a kids on bikes movie, but with zombies. I did say that was the last one, but this one's too good to pass up because we have Karokasa Rorschach that says rule number one should be just pop down to the pub and wait for this thing to just blow over.
Speaker 2:Yes, sure, dead reference. Yep yes, of Dead Revenants. Yep yes, love it.
Speaker 1:So that's exactly what you should do is go to the pub, go to the Winchester and wait for this thing to all blow over. All right, let's get into what we're doing next week. Oh yeah, next week we are doing Chef.
Speaker 2:Yes, we are.
Speaker 1:Next week we are cooking up a fantastic episode. See, what I did there with Jon Favreau's is going to be the next one that we do on our arc of becoming your true self, and we'll explore how following your passions and building community in the process can lead to you becoming who you're truly meant to be. I don't know if this one's very widely seen, but I do recommend, if you're listening to this, go and give it a watch, guys. It's a feel-good movie, it's a comfort movie, and I undervalued it until I watched it a few times before and I think it's really great. So definitely go and check that out and if you are a fan of what we do, make sure you go and follow us on social medias.
Speaker 1:We are everywhere at Fandom Portals. We are also now on YouTube and we hope to see you and connect with you guys there as well. We have some things coming out on our newsletter as well, so you can find that at wwwfandomportalspodcastcom and you can join our mailing list. We only send you one email a month. We're not overbearing like that, so that's all you'll get, but it does do a great deal for keeping us and you guys informed of everything that's happening in the Phantom Portals podcast. Do you have any gratitudes, brash, for this week?
Speaker 2:before we sign off oh yeah, we haven't done anything this week except for work.
Speaker 1:I know that you're grateful that your lawn grows and then dies and then doesn't have to be mowed by itself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true, that's something good. I'll still get it mowed, but at the moment it doesn't look long. Maybe it'll have to be months since I've mowed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my gratitude is late-night conversations with Kalia. It's always fun On the late night conversations I mean like 10 because we're parents and that's late, but it's nice before bed. So it's very good. That's mine, and sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't, because we both just crash or schedules do not align, but when it does, I'm grateful for it, right? So, guys, that is it for this episode of the fandom portals podcast. Keep learning, keep growing and keep loving fandoms. We'll see you next week. Thank you very much, bye thank you until next time.
Speaker 2:Remember cardio seat belts and this really has nothing to do with anything but a little sunscreen never hurt anybody. I'm brash from zombie land saying good night, tuning out bye.
