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The Fandom Portals Podcast
John Carter (2012) Empowering Others and Leading with Integrity | Failure Isn't Final
Summary
Aaron and Brash explore the themes of leadership and integrity through the lens of the film John Carter. They discuss the film's failure at the box office, community insights, and the visual spectacle it offers. The conversation delves into character dynamics, the role of female representation, and the overarching influence of the Therns in the narrative. Ultimately, the hosts reflect on the lessons learned from failure and the importance of empowerment in leadership.
Theme Arc: Failure Isn't Final - What can we learn from the films that flopped at the Box Office?
Takeaways
- True leadership is rooted in integrity, not dominance.
- Failure can teach valuable lessons about ourselves.
- Community insights reveal mixed feelings about John Carter.
- Visual spectacle enhances the storytelling experience.
- Historical context adds depth to the narrative.
- Marketing missteps contributed to the film's failure.
- Character dynamics reveal deeper themes of power.
- Empowerment is a key aspect of effective leadership.
- Female representation in film is crucial for storytelling.
- The Therns represent a larger commentary on control and power.
Keywords
John Carter, leadership, integrity, failure, film analysis, community insights, character dynamics, visual effects, marketing, empowerment
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By control but empathy. Do we sometimes chase recognition when what we really want is respect? In this episode, you'll learn how the movie John Carter from 2012 shows us that true leadership is rooted in integrity and not dominance. Welcome to the Phantom Portals Podcast, a podcast that explores how fandoms and film can help us learn and grow. I'm Aaron, a teacher and lifelong film fan, and each week on the podcast, we explore the stories we love, learn more about ourselves and the worlds that shape us. Today, I am joined by my co-host, Rash Rackham. Hello. And today we are introducing a brand new theme arc, which is titled Failure Isn't Final. And we decided to look at all of the movies that aimed high, stumbled, but still have something to teach us. And by stumbled, we mean they're absolutely flopped at the box office. They're either flopped at the box office or they underperformed to the point where they had catastrophic, what's the word I'm looking for? Consequences for any kind of sequel that kind of occurred, or for the studio at least. So from misguided epics to misunderstood visions, this series will ask, what do stories that failed to find their audience teach us about finding ourselves? The very first instalment is none other than John Carter from 2012, which is in fact, to date, at time of recording, the largest financial flop in the history of Brash. Do you want a brief synopsis to this floppy fish of a film?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. John Carter follows a weary Civil War veteran who was mysteriously transported to Mars, known by its inhabitants as Basum. Thanks to the planet's low gravity, Carter gains the incredible strength and leaping abilities, can leak building a single bound just like Superman.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_02:Carter Game, which drags him into a conflict between warring Martian nations. He befriends the four armed thrax, encounters the brilliant warrior princess Deja Thoris, and slowly becomes a reluctant hero who might be able to change the fate of a dying planet. As Carter learns the politics and cultures of Bassoom, he uncovers the influence of mysterious therns, powerful beings manipulating the war from the shadows. What begins as Carter's attempt to escape his past becomes a journey of purpose, love, loyalty, and as he fights to unite the planet and protect the people, he has grown to care for.
SPEAKER_00:Or at least that's what they say he does.
SPEAKER_02:Who knows? Who really knows?
SPEAKER_00:Who really knows indeed?
SPEAKER_02:His nephew will know.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, his nephew, who apparently wrote the stories. But in this episode, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, you will learn that our theme arc, which is failure isn't final, but specifically we're going to teach or learn the fact from John Carter that true leadership is rooted in integrity and not dominance. And we're also going to be looking, first of all, why this film flopped. We're going to talk a little bit about that. We're going to get our community's thoughts on this movie, because we did some polls on our threads and our Instagrams, and the responses are pretty intriguing. And we're also going to have a look at how the characters are represented to see how leadership or or even just the aspect of dominance through a lot of violence in this movie is portrayed on film. Interestingly crash. We did a poll on our threads community, and we had up two or just over 200 responses. And the question was, was John Carter a bad movie? Which way do you think our poll swung? Was it a bad movie, yes, or was it a bad movie? No.
SPEAKER_02:Cutting how I feel, I'm going to say that it wasn't a bad movie.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you would be with the majority. 76% of our responders and community members said that John Carter was not a bad movie. Great movie? Bad movie. No. Uh, and 24% said yes, it was a very bad movie. So I think for me, there were a lot of positives for this movie in terms of its visual spectacle. It was a lovely movie to watch, especially being from 2012. I mean, like the Martians looked a little bit janky, how you going, but the the scenes and the battles and the spaceships and all of the different effects, including John Carter like jumping from place to place like a human-sized flea.
SPEAKER_02:It was all done pretty well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, Taylor Kitch, the the lead actor, reported that he hated it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. No, I 100% agree with the like the spectacle of it. It was like the world building itself was absolutely phenomenal. And it seems like they you probably know because you're smarter than I am, but the trick that they use in movies where they shoot everything in sort of like so it really brings out like the blues.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, they use different colour corrective lenses and they did colour grading after the fact in post-production, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because um you you can tell because uh like Lynn Collins.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, her eyes, her eyes, holy just bluer than sapphires. That's it. Yes, but um yeah, 100% agree.
SPEAKER_02:Like, and like it it's all like that's and the almost the first thing you see when you see her because uh you see her face, and then bang, just these like brilliantly blue eyes, and you're like, damn, I just get eyes because my eyes are blue, but then all that blue.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It's definitely color grading, and you know what, that has a very strong similarity to a lot of the characters in Dune. And funnily enough, this book, the John Carter book, predates Dune and it predates Star Wars, and it actually laid the foundation to a lot of of those sci-fi kinds, fantasy things that we really know and love today. Like, for example, what was his name? Edgar Rice Burroughs, who's really well known for writing the Tarzan books, and this was his other well-known series, John Carter of Mars. Yeah, it it literally came out in the early nines, and obviously Star Wars didn't come out until the 70s, so this was definitely an influencing factor, but still not as popular as those things that came after it, which is interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, I think uh I think it was just a more of a failure to launch because back the creator of Lunar Tunes Warner Brothers were gonna make an animated adaptation back in the early like 1930s or something like the 1950s or something like that. We're gonna make a well before it was actually gonna be before Snow White, yeah. And they had it going there and they it just couldn't go anywhere. They just didn't gather any moss, couldn't get any funding, yeah. And then it wasn't until like 2012, like 80 years later or what it was, uh that they finally were able to do something with it and make a movie.
SPEAKER_00:Uh yeah. There was lots of big names attached to this throughout the years as well, like studio-wise and directorially speaking. And to your point as well, Disney did end up picking it up and they sunk a lot of money into it because it came out or it was going to be released during a time when Disney was basically looking for their next big thing. So Pirates of the Caribbean was coming towards an end and it wasn't performing like it used to at the box offices. So it was looking for its next big sort of franchise that it could hang its hat on. And you'll remember during this time, movies like The Prince of Persia came out, John Carter came out as well, Sorcerer's Apprentice, all those kind of movies that were almost like they were almost good. They were almost good, but they weren't quite there. This was the one that Disney sort of put all its bank into. And we had one of our community members whose name was Holloway Holdfast that said, this isn't a bad movie, and it only failed because Disney sat on their asses and didn't make market it at all. And after doing some reading, I actually potentially agree because it had an ineffective marketing campaign to where the trailers really failed to justify or clearly explain the plot of the movie because it wasn't such a branded IP like Star Wars or Dune was, it was really kind of hard to sell to the point where it was it was kind of like a misleading tone as well. So the director whose name was Andrew Stanton, he kind of rejected the studio's ideas and led this ineffective campaign, you might say. One example that they give is that he put Led Zeppelin's cashmere in one of the trailers and was seen as making the film seem a little bit dated. Another one was this movie was set to be premiered through its trailer, like trailer release during one of the Super Bowls. And that's a really great time for movies to to debut their trailers because obviously it gets millions and millions of viewers. But there's a really unlucky slot, and it happens when somebody has an injury, basically. Like if somebody has an injury and they play one of the ad slots, it's like a hoodoo that apparently that movie is gonna go bad. And John Carter, its trailer, occurred during an injury stoppage during the Super Bowl. So it lacked promotion. This was also the director's first stint at a live action movie. The director, um, Andrew Stanton is actually like really well known in the animation scene. He directed and wrote A Bug's Life, Finding Nemo, Finding Dory, Wally, Toy Story 1, 2, and 3. And his live action writing credits, he's he's written the Obi-Wan series as well. And you know, he had a good writing team with him, like Michael Chabon. He wrote the screenplay for Spider-Man 2, arguably the best Spider-Man movie. So it's not to say that there wasn't talent behind the scenes with this movie, but it was also reported that Disney kind of looked at Andrew Stanton because of his success and was just like, here's a blank check. And he has himself admitted that he was kind of drunk with the the money and the power of it. But one but one thing I've noticed is I actually dove into the John Carter novel a little bit in preparation for this podcast. And it is a very, I will say it's it's dated. It's entertaining, but it's it's dated to the point where it is a very like journalistic account of John Carter's time on Mars, and it's very first person. And by that I mean we are figuring things out about this planet of Barsoom as John Carter figures it out in the books. Whereas in this movie, the scale is completely expanded to the point where, as we commented before, the world building, the nations, all those things existed, the talks, they were all there, but it was released sort of slowly, which I think may or may not have worked better or worse for this film because you were kind of given time to absorb it. So some mistakes were made, I think, but I also think some things happened that were out of this movie's control that caused it to to flop a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, one of the things was the title, John Car John Carter. Like instead of saying like John Carter and the Princess of Mars or John Carter of Mars or something like that, like it's just John Carter.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Yeah, that was that was a last minute decision too. Because you'll notice in some of the promo they still have the the symbols that has JCM. That's like the logo of the John Carter franchise if it ever took off. But obviously in the title, we've got John Carter until the very end of the movie.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and because uh because this uh in the John Carter movie, it took a lot of its basis off the book Princess of Mars of that series. Like having it say like John Carter and the Princess of Mars or something like that probably would have helped it just by people being able to be more aware of what it actually is than just John Carter.
SPEAKER_00:Or at least they'd know what they're going into, you know?
SPEAKER_02:They don't Disney avoided using Mars in anything they did with this movie, like being on Mars and they just didn't say anything about Mars.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I heard that was because their film Mars Needs Mums or something like that really flopped and failed, so that they thought that Mars was a was a word that they couldn't use in their production anymore. But yeah, I'm just wondering like there's this whole fear of fear of risk coming from Disney through this era as well, because as I said before, Pirates of the Caribbean on Stranger Tides had a huge budget and it came out at a similar time just before, and it had a lower than expected profit. This one here had a massive um budget as well, over 300 million, and it didn't rake in as much as that, let's just say.
SPEAKER_02:It's but and what confuses me, especially like with Disney, is they predicate all these fears, but they don't they don't even know the cause themselves. They just it's just they shoot from the hip. What they do is they play it safe and they deviate from what the original media is about, and then so then they just they just take that fear from there and run ramp it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it was a pretty competitive release in terms of 2020 twelve, because it was the same year obviously The Avengers came out, the Dark Knight Rises came out, John Carter had to stand out a lot in order to make its money back for one. And one thing that a lot of people have said as well, and some of our community has said that as well, is that Taylor Kitch kind of wasn't leading man material enough to carry a film into a franchise. So we have William the tracker that says lead actors must have some measure of charisma, whether they're unknown or movie stars. The two leads in this were boring, the movie's amazing visuals, just couldn't save it. So that was the other side of the opinion. Did they say who the second lead was? I think they're talking about Lynn Collins in this space. Or if they're talking about Willem Defoe, I'll have to disagree because Tarzar just was my favourite character. I'm gonna talk about him a lot later.
SPEAKER_02:Well, real realistically, for a lot of the time, it is like if you look at Lynn Collins' amount that she's in it, for like a lot of the sort of end start, she's not really in it except when they do like the flash out to where she is. But there's a whole huge chunk of when she's he's there with the tracks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think um like the cast is pretty stacked. Like it's got Willem Dafoe as Tarz Tarkas, Mark Strong as Matthias Shang, Dominic West is in as Sab Thorne, and we have also Thomas Hayden Church, who everybody knows is Sandman in Spider-Man 3. He plays Tal Hajas, and then Sola as well, played by Samantha Morton, and obviously we have Taylor Kitch playing the titular John Carter. I am a fan of Taylor Kitsch, I will say, but I am a fan of him from Friday Night Lights, and in Friday Night Lights, he played a very brooding football player called Tim Riggins, and I feel like his brooding nature has carried him through a lot of different roles that he has played in his uh his time here. People might also know him from Wolverine Origins, where he played a version of Gambit that wasn't very well received. But I feel like he has made his name more well known in the TV scene, playing playing parts in the terminal list and also true detective. What what was your thoughts on Taylor Kitch as a leading man in this one, Brash? Were you sold by him or not so much? Dialogue stilted is some of the comments we got from our our threads.
SPEAKER_02:That's what I was gonna say. I don't mind him in the leading man. Arcany would Arcony makes a perfect John Carter. The writing wasn't very the dialogue writing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? I think that's universal. I don't think it's a Taylor Kitsch thing and just John Carter's lines. I think the lines throughout these movies from a lot of the characters are a little bit stilted. And and it's kind of corny cliche as well. So even to the point where, like at the start, the Tyshane. Yeah, exactly. Very dismal. And maybe it's because we're coming at from an adult lens and it's meant for people probably maybe younger than us. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:But I don't know how, because you've got people getting their arms cut off and in the movie and like the whole pit where they they um slaughter all the hatchlings. Slaughter all the hatchlings because they can't take him with them, and yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. They're not strong enough to climb out. Yeah, I think that there are some adult things. That's a that's probably another thing. It didn't really hit its tone in terms of its target audience.
SPEAKER_02:No, it seemed too light, like everything too seemed too light and bright to be to deal with some of the themes that were in it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. So it wasn't quite for for kids, but it wasn't quite for adults, and it kind of was a bit too corny and cheesy for teenagers. So I think it definitely flopped for a reason, you could say, but I don't think the reason is because Taylor Kitch couldn't carry the project. So, with that being said, obviously, yourself and our community, or the majority of our community, believe that it's not a bad movie. Through this theme arc, we're looking at what failures can teach us. And one of the things that I kept noting through this movie, and part of our most valuable takeaway, is that I found in this one that I was looking at leadership, more specifically through our main character of John Carter, but also through some of the other characters as well, and how power changes hands within this movie. And I think one thing that I found was that power in in Basum or in Mars in this movie was very it was very much strength-based. It was based on control, it was based on fear, it was basically it was based on sustained, outdated systems of power that really showed one person's dominance over another. And that's historically accurate for the time period that it was written for sure. Who has the biggest dick? Basically, yeah. Who has the biggest dick, who has the biggest stick? But it's literally the first scene of the movie when you know Matthias Shang comes down and says, You'll rule over all of Basum, and there'll be no one who can defy you when he gives him the ninth ray weapon. And then Sad Thorn is a pawn and a puppet for the rest of the movie where he's leading the nation of Zedanger. It's Zedanger, isn't it? Yeah. And Zadenga like go through and just annihilate everything on Barsoom using this basically god weapon. And it's it's to me that sort of pattern continues throughout all of the different societies in Basum. Like obviously, through the Tarks, it echoes in a more primal form because they have this survivalist brutality as well. And compassion has no place in the Tharks either.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And then but um yeah, they to go as far as even to say it, like how they've watched countless worlds destroy themselves to be rebuilt again, then they'll just helping this one along and by giving him the gold weapon because he'll just destroy everything, everything will die, and then they'll start again. So just try instead of trying to fix it and trying to instead of trying to fix it or make it better.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's the whole message through the whole thing, isn't it? The the people that Matai Shang belong to, I've forgotten what they're actually called, but the people that Matai Shang belong to, they have supposedly watched over lots of generations of people, and they pick a very controllable person to install their will on a planet and basically take over it via conquest. So you can tell, like you can see that this is like a primitive way to control people and oppress them to the point where it exposes a world where obedience basically replaces respect. So there's also some some theorists whose name is Borman and Palensky, and they say that if if leaders lead with ethical principles and not with dominance, it fosters long-term cohesion. So followers don't respond to fear indefinitely, basically, because they respond to fairness, purpose, and consistency, which is not the case in in this story of John Carter, because basically the guy with the biggest weapon is going to win, or in the fact of the the farks, it's the strongest one will rule. And Tars Tarkas is that, or at least he's posturing to be that for a great portion of the film until Taj Hajas, who's played by Thomas Hayden Church, takes over because he's showing the weakness of compassion, I'll say, in in quote Marks towards Solar. So like it's very, very evident primarily through the Tharks, because even as you said before, you know, there are 18 hatchlings who are yet to hatch, they said, and they won't they're not worthy to be a Thark, so they literally just destroy them. So there's just that indoctrinated idea that dominance and strength is what takes control. And for me, I really wanted John Carter to stand above that and basically not reinforce this theme, but subvert it. But through this movie and towards the end especially, he basically gains power through the same means that any other person in this world does, which is through power and a show of brute force and strength in the arena. And and basically he's using he's using the villain's way to control and gain power as opposed to doing something opposite and being a leader in that manner as well. So I I kind of don't think John Carter is representing good leadership or good traits of a leader in this movie. I feel like he is definitely one of the least popular characters, in my eyes at least, that shows how he can change a system, if you know what I mean by that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But uh but that goes along with his character too, because his character through the whole line is he he doesn't want he doesn't want to lead, he doesn't want to do anything, he just wants to be left alone with his little gold mine and just be concluded.
SPEAKER_00:I was not sold on that either because he was he's a guy, right, that just wants his cave of gold is what they kept going back to the whole time. And he even said to his Confederate buddy at the start, he was just like, Whatever it is I was supposed to owe to your country, I've I've paid in full because we get those flashbacks where he uh he lost his wife and his child and he, you know, he plays with the wedding band throughout the the movie to show that he's got this history as to siding with somebody and it going against him in the long run, personally. So I think what was supposed to come off as him being non-committal due to a morally righteous reason, like I don't feel like he's not fighting or engaging in a cause because he's opposed to the violent way that they're oppressing power. I feel like it's because he just doesn't want to, which like he doesn't go one way or the other. And when he actually does, he doesn't commit to a side because of any kind of belief or value that changes. He does it for romantic interest. So he falls in love with with Deja Thorus. Yeah. He falls in love with Deja Thorus. And then, you know, she actually has a real banger of a quote too, because when they're in the cave and they're working out how the transporting system works when they follow the river of Is, uh, she says, well, he says to her, War is a shameful thing. And then she says back to him, not when a noble cause is taken up by those who can make a difference. He says, You made a difference today, Virginia, name your price. And he goes, I'm not for hire. So I think that she is the one planting the seeds of the values, and she is actually making a difference through changing the culture, changing the way of something that could occur. Whereas John Carter just jumps in and uses violence to take over and be a leader again. So the two people that go against this trend is Deja Thoris and Tarz Tarkas, and they're my favorite characters. So I don't know why John Carter gets their respect at the end, because I feel like Tarzaris throughout shows the Tarks a new way to exist, whereas John Carter just comes in and incites them for a war that they're not really involved in to start with. And that's my rant about how John Carter isn't a hero.
SPEAKER_02:To be fair though, the only reason why Tars Tarkas does change his stance is because John Carter.
SPEAKER_00:That point I will give you. That point I will give you. He is so indoctrinated in the culture, like Tarz Tarkas sees John Carter.
SPEAKER_02:As has his daughter, like just allows his daughter to be marked so many times just because he does want to try to fight against it.
SPEAKER_00:Very good point. To the point where John Carter actually speaks out against his decision and he works out, and you know, he says there's there's no room left to mark her, basically. She has no room for another mark. So it shows you that Tarzarkas is unwillingly moving forward with the cultural practice of the Tarks. John Carter comes and basically verbally outbursts towards it and says, you know, this isn't the way that you should do it. So yes, okay. He does inspire Tarzarkas to act upon his thoughts of compassion. However, he does rally the mob through forces of violence in the end. So he does move one stone in Tarzarkas, I'll give him that. But in the end, he falls back to old habits, and then, you know, he even claims like fight like a thark in the arena scene there. And, you know, there's that whole thing where they say a warrior may change his medal, but not his heart. And I think that John Carter changes for he's supposed to be portrayed as this virtuous hero. And I'm just not sold on it, Brash, for the whole time, because his motivations are murky from situation to situation.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think he is meant to be sold as a virtuous hero. He's not the hero they deserve, he's the hero they need. Okay. Tell me more. Well, so he is he's sick of war because of his family dying, and he his family's died, he doesn't want to be part of it anymore. He kept he keeps getting dragged back into it reluctantly, and he keeps trying to find a way out, but he his nature isn't for war, it's to protect. But he couldn't protect his family.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:So even when even when he's trying to run away, they're running into the inions, and Brian Cranston's character gets shot, and he's riding off, and he he looks back and sees that he's injured and he's like and just couldn't do it. He had to turn back and say, like, at least try and save him. And then it's the same with the thrax, he the thrax, he doesn't want to get involved. He keeps trying to escape, which keeps messing up solar, unfortunately. Eventually becomes sort of a protector for solar as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because he's instructed to take her with him down the river is and that was the condition Tarz Tarkas said. He's just like, I'll let you guys go because you have shamed us through our cultural traditions, but I'll let you guys go if you take her because she can't take another mark.
SPEAKER_02:And then the same thing, uh then she also, by the way, Solar is probably my favourite character in the show, played by Sametha Morton. She was in The Whale, plays the daughter to his mother and wife, amazing movie. But also with oh am I thinking wrong now, when she gets dragged into um Deja Thorus's the conflict with them as well, how she's like, Oh, help us fight him, you got amazing powers, help us point him. He's like, I don't want to fight anyone. I don't want my gold and I want to go away because every time I get dragged in someone, I have to protect something and I end up getting hurt for it. And but I mean eventually the attraction of her does give in for take away. But I don't I don't think it's because purely because the fact that she's attractive. I think it's because of all the things he's seen her do. The fact that she can protect herself, the thing the the fact that she is brave and strong and smart in her own right, that he feels that he doesn't have to always protect her. He doesn't have to be the protector of he can just and you see that towards the end. He's not he's realistically, he's not the leader of the people anymore.
SPEAKER_00:He is though.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, no, not Tucson. Right at the end.
SPEAKER_00:He sits with Deja Thoros, who is the leader, Deja.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, Deja Thoros, he's the leader. He's the concubine. Exactly. He is the concubine. He is and like he's well, he's the leader of the Thrax person. Well, he's not I don't he's not the leader, isn't he? He's the right hand. Well, he challenges Because he he fights on behalf of of Tars Tarkas. Tartarkis. I don't think he does it wrong.
SPEAKER_00:He challenges no, he challenges Tal Hajas in combat, because that's what their tradition dictates, and he beats Tal Hajas in a violent episode where he basically beheads him after defeating two white, large apes, which also you could say is metaphorical to what and foreshadowing to what happens before, because there's the two big nations of Zedonga and Helium fighting each other, so that's like the two apes that are coming through, and then John Carter basically squashes one with the other and then takes off the head, which is Tal Hajjass in this in this situation. But that's that's the part that I'm I'm not really sold on for him because you know Bauman says that true leaders should align their actions with their values, and earning respect through fairness and empathy is better than earning it through showings of strength and violence. So he says that you know, I'm done with war, I don't want to fight anything, but even before he picks a side, he solves every conflict with violence, every single one.
SPEAKER_02:He jumps into battle at a moment it's not like he's going up to walk up to Indians and say, Hey, peace. And just hope he's not talking. He tried to talk, but one of the other guys shot first.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Wasn't his fault, and then they start shooting at him, so all is he gonna do just let him shoot him and just be like, oh no, man, I'm cool. And the same with in the arena, he is strapped to a boulder, which pretty much gets rid of rid of his jumping and his strength abilities. And then it wasn't until Solus and Tarzarkas were in trouble that he then goes all superhuman fleet superman and bust the rock and smash the other white ape and throw the other white ape uh do all the violency part. It's only when he when the others are about to pretty much die that he comes in and saves them. And it's the same when they're leaving the River of Is. He jumps off the thing to fight. He could have died right then, too, when he does that big epic s just sort that I love that part too. It's like one of my favorite parts. But no, he he he does that so the others could get away, not so he would to be some big hero and not to even probably survive. He didn't think he was probably gonna survive, but he does, of course, because he's his main character. That's the one.
SPEAKER_00:They're near into the second one that never happened.
SPEAKER_02:That pot armor. But um he doesn't he doesn't do it for himself. He does he everything, every time he fights, he does it for someone else. And that's why he wanted his gold, like his mount, his cave of gold. That's why he wanted to go away from it all and be recluse, because he keeps getting dragged into other people's wars and fights when he doesn't want to. And then that's why at the very end, when it's all said and done, he's like, I'm now just gonna be a concubine and you can run the joint, and I'm just gonna be your boy toy.
SPEAKER_00:See, that's that's what I think I don't like about him because empowering others creates a lasting transformation, right? And he empowered the Tharks to re to join Helium, and you know, this it it's leadership that's based on warfare and his his charisma and the show of force that he had. And it what's going to happen when Zedanga are defeated? Is he is are they going to negotiate treaties between the Tharks and Helium? Like what kind of leader is he then? Because he's just incited this mob to fight for them due to the mutual cause that they have. But then in the end of the movie, the true villains, which is the people that are led by Matthias Shang, Mark Strong's character, they're still around and and to the point where they send him back to Earth. So when he leaves and he goes, and the fact that he hasn't really created that that lasting change through empowering others, like he's empowered Tarzaris, yes, I'll agree with that. But was that enough for him to to really sort of sit and say that it's the moral conundrum or the moral contradiction that doesn't sit right with me for him? It's the fact that yes, I know he's fighting people because he's dragged into it and because he's he's kind of forced to, but I just feel like if he is going to be a leader that leads through fairness and respecting me a leader. Yeah, but
SPEAKER_02:That's the whole point. The whole point is he doesn't want to be a leader.
SPEAKER_00:He's also gaining peace through like war and destruction, which is exactly the same thing that Sab Than's doing.
SPEAKER_02:But that's the but that was the thing is that's already happen that was already happening. He didn't incite the war, he didn't start the war. Well, realistically, with his help, he finished the war. He stopped the war.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I can agree with that.
SPEAKER_02:The war was fighting the war was starting before him, and then the the Tarks, Thrax.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. The Tarks.
SPEAKER_02:They Tarx Tarks. They and they were an oppressed people living in ruins that had to hide every time a ship flew over the top.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's that's why they loved him so much, is because he had a power that they thought, well Tarztarkas thought they could use against Zedanger. Yeah. Because he was the jumping man.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Again, they would he was just another weapon for someone else to use when they drag him into their conflict. But he shows he shows them all that well, he shows Helium and the uh Tarx that there's a new different way. Unfortunately, the Empire is a different story, they couldn't tell them because they were so blinded and so enthralled by the Thurns that they were beyond well, realistically, once the leader of the Thurns, um what's his name, was killed, the the Zover, everyone sort of surrendered, and that was the end of it.
SPEAKER_00:Classic runtime issue right there. It's just like, yeah, we we can't talk about how this is going to completely resolve, so they're all going to surrender when their leader dies.
SPEAKER_02:But for all th for all in terms of purposes, he wants all he wants is peace, he wants to end wars, and he accomplished that goal.
SPEAKER_00:I think for John Carter, it's more about him finding belonging, because you know, he he'd lost his place in terms of where he belonged in the Confederate army. He lost his wife and his child, so he really had nothing sort of going for him, and then when he went to Barsoom, he found a new cause and a new person to love. So for him, his story was kind of a bit more about belonging. The thing that I might need to transition on in my thinking with John Carter is not that he's represented as a leader, but perhaps he's represented as somebody who empowers other leaders. Because if you look at the two characters around him, like Deja Thoris, for example, she is a very powerful woman in her place, to the point where the original novel is called Princess of Mars, like John Carter and the Princess of Mars. Like she's completely relegated in terms of a title character on the banner of the movie. But I feel like the story could have been a little bit more compelling if they gave her a little bit more headline, because you know, her belief in the ninth ray and in science was that alternative to war that she was talking about, because she says Sab Than is using it for destruction only, whereas she's studying the ninth ray because she feels like it could be a source of restoration. And it reflects her leadership, which is rooted in intellect and empathy, but it also reflects that cultural system because as soon as like they saw her scientific experiment begin to work, they gave her credence and attention. But then when it failed, they were just like, oh no, we'll marry you off. Like that's the only thing we could do. You did have a good idea love, but unfortunately, you're just a silly girl and we'll marry you off. Yeah, like that's all her character was kind of useful. Yeah. So they gave her usefulness when she appeared to have value to the nation, but then her usefulness was relegated back to being a puppet to marry Sab Thorne and cause that peace. However, in terms of what I said before about her actions aligning with her values, her value was that that wasn't correct. She should not be used that way. And her action was to run away and find an alternative. So she went and found John. So I feel like she's a leader.
SPEAKER_02:That's the funny thing though, because then she didn't want to be used, so she ran away, found John, and then wanted to use John.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's that's the thing. Like, she like I feel like this narrative really sidelines her and it reinforces John Carter's physical dominance as opposed to her emotional clarity and intellect, which I think is what drives the narrative forward, really. That combined with like Tarz Tarkas embodying that struggle where both of those characters, Deja Thoros and Tarz Tarkas, are struggling to maintain their own ideals and values in a system that really oppresses that. So by contrast for Tarzaris, for example, Carter's actions are really reactive and kind of, I will say, self-justifying. Like he being he does bring peace through war. And Tars Tarkas is all for that as well, but he's also very empathetic and compassionate towards his own kin, for example, like Solar, which is very unconventional for his species, to the point where he's seen as an outcast. Like he's seen as a leader, but as soon as he shows those qualities, he's then seen as an outcast until John Carter comes along and obviously advocates for him. So perhaps I'm looking at John Carter in the way that I feel like he should be the leader, but I feel like perhaps he is then empowering others, as I said before, because prior to your comment, I thought that he he really didn't do that in terms of the both armies, like the Tharks and the Heliumites, but he actually did do that in terms of the two individual characters from each of those races, like for the Tarx, he did Tarz Tarkas, and for Helium he did the princess.
SPEAKER_02:And we haven't talked enough about Sola. Poor Solar, who gets strapped with this dude who doesn't know where he is, doesn't know what's going on, so he keeps trying to fucking escape, which keeps getting her in trouble. And she all she's trying to do is just be like, can you chill? Because if I get friended one more time, I am done. Yeah. And this dude just does not listen to her and just keeps fucking around. And poor Solar has to pay for it. The whole m the whole movie. The whole movie. Sol's just trying to like be the mother and be like, all right, kids, calm down. And everyone's like going crazy, running around, jumping around over the gym.
SPEAKER_00:And well, that's you could say that that's that's her journey as like the mother in this space, because obviously Tarzarka says when the hatchlings are released, he's like, let Sola have a hatchling, and then everyone's like, fine, he can have she can have the white worm. The white worm.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, which is like another shame on the family that Sola kind of just absorbs because that's yeah, but constantly has taken it, and then but like the fact that she just keeps going and like because I think she went to the river this to pretty much die. Yeah, but and then John was like, why? It's because it's the way, and it's like, no, fuck the way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but you can you can actually see like through little things that the director's done to show that this this violence and this culture of like battle is rife through the the Tharks. Because if you remember when the Z the Zidangas came over and the ships were like firing upon them and John John Carter started jumping up and battling them, you can see that scene where all of the Tharks are actually like placing bets on the winner and who would wipe out one and one or the other. And you know, Tarz Tarkas plays as his wager on John, he's just like, I I put my my money on on John Carter. And you know, that that's also when we see that the princess also is given value again for the power that she exhibits because John says, you know, stand behind me, I'll protect you to the point where she pulls out a sword and is then considered an equal because she's you know, she's she doesn't need protecting or saving, as to your point before. She she alongside him. So she didn't need that kind of empowering from him because she already had that. But I feel like to empower her voice, she did need John to do that. So I don't know. I don't know if she's well I don't think she's well represented as a as a female sort of character in this because I feel like she's only given credence and power when is useful to the male characters for one, but then to your point towards the end, she is then obviously given that leadership role over her father, and John does slide into that concubine position, as you might say. So yeah, I think that it's just it's kind of a little bit muddy for me the way that these characters run, but there's also like there is a lot to digest in this film.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, because it's already a built world. It's already a built world, it's already gonna have a there's already a war started that happened many years ago. Like there's already so much so much thing that something that's already happened in the world and in the lore of this place, that one movie sort of isn't enough to sort of touch on it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, in the first two minutes of the movie, we find out a few things. Barsoom is what we call Mars. Zidanger is a city that's causing death across Mars. It's a predator city, it's moving, it's devouring everything, it's draining all the life from Barsoom. We then learn about Helium, who stands firm against Barsoom, it's the only one that does, and the airships, and it's an airship-to-airship battle, and there's also a sandstorm that's coming through, and you know, Helium, which led Helium to have these massive losses, and as a result of that, Zidanger is just annihilating everybody. So from let's literally two minutes, we just get dump after dump after dump after dump. And that's why I think, as I said at the start of this, when I was looking at reading the actual John Carter novel, it expresses the world building as John Carter experiences it. So I as a as far as I've read into the book so far, I haven't heard mention of the Zudanga people or the people from Helium because at the moment John is still with the Tharks. So we're learning all about the Tharks. We know all about John and his life on Earth before he got transported there. We know all about him as a Confederate soldier, and we're slowly learning these things as it goes. So I think that yes, Andrew Stanton tried to build this immersive and expansive world, which is great. It's probably one of the better things about this movie, to be sure, but I feel like the way that it was approached probably wasn't the best for newcoming audiences, I'll say.
SPEAKER_02:And I like we say this nearly on every sort of movie that comes from a book series. It's better on the show.
SPEAKER_00:It should have been a TV show. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Give us more time. Yeah, like it gives us more time and you can and you can do it in sections.
SPEAKER_00:So like you've got like an hour block that you can sort of thumb out, like so that slow burn is sometimes better, especially when the content is rich and deep. That's the thing. We need more time with John Carter's character because I feel like his transition from I don't want to fight to anybody to I will now unite two large armies of people that have been warring for a long time against one common foe. I feel like that jump happens way too quickly. And I feel like the way that they band-aided is that scene where Tarzarka sort of tells John, he goes, the Tharks will not like I I won't be able to save this red woman, he says, if he doesn't agree to fight for the Tharks. And then to save her life, John reluctantly agrees to do that. And then that's that's when he gets the victory and everybody commends him, and he and you know, you made a difference today, Virginia, that kind of thing. So I feel like he gets that little taste, and we are given little tastes throughout the start of the movie where we see his virtuous side, we see that he doesn't really want to involve himself in a cause, and he's got this backstory, but I just feel like it doesn't fully come together for me to the point where at the start of this podcast, when I was talking to you, I was like, is he supposed to be the leader or is he supposed to be empowering others or is he supposed to be and I watched this three times, so I just think that it doesn't fully cohesively come together in a in a way that really sort of expresses what they wanted to with the character of John Carter. But I do feel like that Tarzarkis and Deja Thoros should have gotten more screen time because they definitely do show that that that leadership is rooted in integrity over dominance, because those are the two characters who really go against their oppressors in terms of the cultural norm. And you know, it takes an outsider to come in and show them like, hey, this isn't this isn't right. So maybe those three as a trio are good. Yeah, but just needed more time with it, I think, Brash.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And we can't forget like one of the most important characters in the whole entire movie, the young Thark, voiced by David Schummer. Really? Yep. Wow, that's a deep cut. Yeah, so one of the tharks that yells out on the rocks that yells out ships are coming.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yep, that's David Schummer.
SPEAKER_00:I wonder why he decided maybe he was just on the lot one day. Yeah. Or they needed maybe they have it on recording or something.
SPEAKER_02:Literally, like he's not part of the cast, he's just he's listed as a cameo.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about Matthias Shang for a bit here because he's like the puppet master of this whole thing. And what would what did you say his people are? Are the therns, aren't they? Therns. Yep. Yeah, they're seen as this this myth that sort of uh navigate across the the land of Bar Sum to the point where you know they they're so focused on this universal conquest. And, you know, they're starting with Barsoom, and they can see that people from Earth have increased strength, increased agility. They have as like one person from Earth wreaks absolute havoc and mayhem across everything that they've been trying to operate here on Barsoom. And so obviously he's a John Carter's a problem to to Matthias Shang. So he sees John and Earthlings as a big thing. Well, I don't know how they they wouldn't have, or maybe they didn't know because no earthlings have ever been to Mars. I'm I'm of the opinion, and I got the inkling that the therns were originally from Earth. Like I don't know what they are, whether they're spiritual or whatever, but they they they're talking about this river of is and when the oceans used to live on on Barsoom. But yeah, Mattai Shang wanted to to stop and eliminate anyone with knowledge of any kind of ninth ray, like at the wedding ceremony. That was his ultimate end goal. At the wedding ceremony, he wanted to basically eliminate anyone's knowledge of the ninth ray, cut the head off the beast, is what he says. And then he says balance must be restored. So is he just is he leveling the playing field? What's he doing?
SPEAKER_02:Because you see, you see it on his face the first time that John Carter like jumps, and he's like he's like, What the fuck? He didn't uh like he had no idea that someone from Earth would have this accountability because he or he didn't realise that someone from Earth was even there at the time, and he's like, What the hell? That's a person from Earth, and then he's like sort of jumped around, and that's why he's like when you talk to him, he's like knows where he's from because he's like he spent a lot of time on Earth, and he's like knows from like the south.
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, he says that he knows of it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, I but I they I think for as much power as they have, they like 'cause the the thing I hated most about the therns was I didn't understand their purpose.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02:I was just about to say is their purpose just to watch worlds burn and then watch them grow again? Is that what it's like?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well they said because he said they've been controlling the destiny of planets for ages, but Matthai Shang actually says to John he doesn't have a dog in this fight. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, he he says he doesn't he says to John he doesn't have a dog in this fight, and then Shang also says, I also don't because I am I'm eternal. Like I live beyond this as well. So to the point where it's like power through oppression of force is is less powerful than being able to control those that are doing the destroying, yet they're they're controlling the people that are doing the destroying.
SPEAKER_02:Like Shang feels like the death of the princess is going to be But the thing is totally this world's world's gonna burn anyway, so we're gonna get along.
SPEAKER_00:It's like and they they use that cliche term like balance must be restored. So we see this this this massive, like almost mythological religious figure of Matai Shang and the Thurns just having a hand in every pie to the point where they infiltrate and and poses different figures. Well, he was controllable, that's why they did that. And that that was quite quickly too.
SPEAKER_02:It's like, how is that con that balance? That's just that's tipping the scales.
SPEAKER_00:It's very much tipping the scales to the point where they've given power to one to conquest over the other. But if you think about it as well, it kind of did produce balance because the Tharks and then Helium rose up to to unite and battle against the people from Zidanger as well. Yeah. So and then, you know, there's just so many pieces going on in this in this movie where you know Sab Thorn comes and essentially he's an ally because he wants nothing more than to marry Deja Thoros, and then like that was a big betrayal. It's it's yeah, it was just pretty messy throughout. Yeah, motivations were fuzzy.
SPEAKER_02:Because I don't know, like they're all getting this from like the books and everything like that. But I would have liked a more reasonable reason as to why the Thurns are intervening or why they care.
SPEAKER_00:Because if you think about it, the Zedangans weren't really like they were constantly warring, yes, before the Thurns got there, but they weren't really bad, so to speak. They were just really kind of influenced by one Thern and Sab Thorne's will for ultimate power to the point where it literally caused a chain of events that led to everybody's kind of destruction and big vacuums of power and things like that. So like I I definitely agree. I think the thirds in this space weren't as fleshed out as they probably could, but they were seen as like this overarching power, which may or may not have been resolved in later movies that we never got. But I think there's an opening installment.
SPEAKER_02:Three of him kills. He kills he kills Mark Strong's, like Matai Shang. He kills the one at the very start when he gets the medallion in the first place, and he kills the one that tries to take the medallion back that they said he found when he wants to get back to Mars.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and the biggest loser move John Carter did in this whole thing was throw away that medallion seconds before he got sent back to Earth. Like, what a dummy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he's like, Well, I don't need to go back anymore. Hey, you're going back.
SPEAKER_00:And on a synopsis point as well, moving away from the power discussion, on a synopsis point, like that last 20 minutes where he gets sent back to Earth, and then it's like a speed run of the things he does to get back, that that could have also been literally its own movie. Like that was just completely rushed to the point where they could have even just ended the film when he is happy at Mars on the on the balcony there, but I don't know why they chose not to. That again shows like the Thurns control over a different realm. But you know what I actually think? I think that they originally did this and they introduced the Thurns and Matthias Matthias Shang because they wanted them to be that overarching power that looms in the distance that everybody fears. If you remember Dungeons and Dragons, the movie Honor Among Thieves, remember how like the rogue, Hugh Grant's character, he was kind of pulling all the strings as the evil guy, but then in the shadows you saw that scene where there was that evil kind of wizard. What were those wizards called? The Red Wizards. Yeah, the Red Wizards. And literally that was probably preparing for the Red Wizards to be a villain later on, but we only just saw that one menacing shot of that dark person in the shadowy corridor in that movie. I feel like Dungeons and Dragons did a better job of foregrounding a teacher villain than this movie. I would like like Mark Strong is an amazing actor. No faults on Mark Strong. He played a great character, always plays a good villain.
SPEAKER_02:But I feel like the Thurns should have been, like you said, more in the shadows. I don't think you should have seen it. I don't think you should have seen it.
SPEAKER_00:You should have you should have been able to have felt their presence, but not seen Yeah, even like a Thanos end credit scene doesn't have to be an end credit scene, but like Sab Thorne should have been Dominic West's character, Sab Thorne should have been the villainous villain of this movie. Like he should have been the the focal point villain, and then at the very end, towards this, we figure out hey, Matthias Shang and the Thurns are actually like pulling the strings on all of this. So that gives you the second stage of of narrative storytelling where John Carter and Deja Thoris have to do that. Yeah, yeah, go for it. New segment, everybody, it's called Hear Me Out.
SPEAKER_02:So Mark Strong's character, you see him, but like quotes, and you don't like when you see his face, you hear his voice, you know it's Mark Strong. You hear him, he gives him the weapon, he tells him what he needs to do, and then that's it. Bashes. Yes, yeah. And then he comes and then he comes in, and then when it all gets fucked up at the end, and John Carter wins and reclaims the weapon and blah blah blah from the boat.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, and the ninth ray is back in the hands of Deja Thoros, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. Then at like the end credit, as you said, the Thurnous thing at the end, where Mark Strong's character's doing something else, somewhere else thing, one of his other thern members comes up and says, We have a problem. And then it turns, it's Mark Strong at the end. Something like that. And then that builds a thing of like, oh shit, now the Thurns There's a bigger villain. There's a bigger villain. And their sights are now purely set on John Carter because he messed up their plans.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and Deja Thoris too, because obviously she's the leader of the arena now, too. But yeah, I I think that would have been great. Like reduce Mark Strong's role to the point where he's the looming villain. Really focus on Sab Than Dominic West's character as the big villain of this story. Because you're absolutely right. At the start of the movie, give him the ninth ray, give him that ultimate power, make it like a looming sort of dark power, so you know it's a little bit naughty that he has it, did not develop that on his own. Yeah, I think that would have been the way to go because I think they definitely did try to fit too many things in this movie. But it but it's interesting, through this this discussion with you, I've re-evaluated my stance on like how I see John Carter as a character. Because being called John Carter and him being the title character and him being in a Disney movie, you think that formulaic operation has to occur where obviously Taylor Kitch's John Carter has to be the one that's the hero and showing the leadership qualities. Through talking to you, I actually have seen that he kind of inspires the leadership qualities in others, which is one of the biggest qualities of a leader as well. So he is integrated, full of integrity.
SPEAKER_02:He's a main character who's a support character.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Oh yeah, there's a good mate, you're on fire tonight. That is so good. Because yeah, you're absolutely right. Even though he does have some like like full-on action sequences, he's front and center a lot. But I feel like Willem Defoe's development and Deja Deja Thoris at Lil Collins' development is definitely attributed to John Carter's presence and the shakeup that he provides. So yeah, I think I think that that really sort of summarizes it. So do you want to go into our our little rating here, Brash?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So for me, I'll go I'll go first. I'll go first. I'll go first, I'll go first. So for me, I think obviously my nitpicks are that it's there's too much story in this to the point where like nothing is truly well done, but it does open up a lot of discussion for us, and I think the world is rich and vast, a lot of potential. Sad that it that like there's nothing that has come of it. I would watch anything that comes from this IP in the future because I'm in now and I know the various factions and things like that, but this movie is a as in particular. I think it just nothing was really done well except for like the visual effects. I feel like John Carter is likable in terms of his role. I still think he uses the villains' tactics to win, but I do like Tarzarkas and Daja Thoros, so I kind of gave it a serviceable 2.5 for me.
SPEAKER_02:I watched this movie back in 2012 when it first came out. And I I really I did really enjoy it then, especially for the time because it was 2012, nothing overly spectacular. The Avengers came out that year. Yeah, but like but I mean like I mean like before like before 2012, you had Iron Man, it was like fucking fantastic, and yeah, but like you also had movies like The Incredible Hulk and Hulk that were like really not that great. This would actually be not too bad. I mean I'd really enjoy this. And uh because I love and I love the world, I love world building, I love lore. And I'm like this is such like this has the potential to be so so good.
SPEAKER_00:I could run a DD game in this world, quite honestly. Like warring factions, yep, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:That's why like my my current campaign on because I've started watching black sa black sales again. I've created a part of a pirate campaign. So that that's the campaign on Mondays. So I really enjoy this movie and I still do I still do enjoy it, even though there are parts because the the thing that I think if I'm nitpicking that I hated the most is the writing and the writing dialogue. The dialogue, yeah. That that's what I would get. And the whole purpose of the third their whole reasoning, what they're just there to help the world destroy itself quicker.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What they got internally is what they can't wait.
SPEAKER_00:No, or just let it play. Let it play.
SPEAKER_02:No, that's like uh but anyway, but I think also I do think also the fact that that DJ was getting close to working at the ninth ring also was a cause of them saying, Hey, we need to get fucked we need to get fucked to get rid of Hillium. Yeah, it wasn't so much Ilium, it's just per. They just need to get rid of her, they could have just assassinated her at some point when she was sleeping at night.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's what I mean. I did I didn't get the full scene where where Mark Strong's character does the whole monologue to John Carter, which is also a nitpick for me for all movies. I hate it when the villain monologues to the hero when they've got them beat. I'm like, you know what's gonna happen here. He's gonna escape and use all the knowledge that you gave him to thwart your evil plan. No one doesn't like don't do that. Thwart my plans. Like that's that's obviously pride and hubris in in action, right? There is like don't don't posture and tell everybody your plan before it's actually fully Don't tell people you're internal when you can get shot with a pistol and die. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Your racing rash, your stars.
SPEAKER_02:I will I I give this three.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. That's serviceable.
SPEAKER_02:Nice solid three.
SPEAKER_00:I will note before we put this on our fandom portals on a board, we do have a comment from Reload161, who's a member of our threads community. They had a really sort of summarizing comment for this, and they said uh verbatim, they're just like, ah geez, well, in the end, I wasn't a big fan of the movie. It felt kind of bloated, but that's not to say that there weren't some elements I didn't like. I really liked the score. I thought it had a pretty cool sweeping theme by Michael Giacino. Then again, it's been a few years, it might have to be time for a revisit. So at the very least, the Phantom Porters podcast, we hope to do that by our enticing social media posts of the episodes we put out there. Give it a rewatch, give it another go. Yeah, see what you can learn from it.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. That's that's the thing, especially.
SPEAKER_00:It's the shtick of our whole podcast.
SPEAKER_02:When you yeah, when you watch when you watch something when you're younger, it's always good to go back and revisit it so you can try and catch the things that you may not have noticed. Because I always enjoy like re-watching something and going, hey, I didn't catch that before, but now I've caught it this time. Or rewatching meaning, like I didn't see it playing out this way, or the theme of it being like this, but now that I'm rewatching it, like I can see the move from a different perspective. Yeah. I always enjoy that. And that's our whole that's our whole purpose.
SPEAKER_00:That is our whole purpose indeed. Three divided by two. Ah damn it. So 2.75 is what it gets.
SPEAKER_02:2.75.
SPEAKER_00:2.75 between Brash's rating of three and mine of 2.5 out of five. Well, this is kind of easy.
SPEAKER_02:Kinda easy?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So it sits 22nd on our Phantom Portals honor board. It is below Venom, the last dance, and above the Ewoks Adventure. It is the only thing so far that we have rated 2.75.
SPEAKER_01:Oh shit.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. So that was easy. Below Venom. Venom. Yeah, above Ewok. So, with that, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we have finished our episode on John Carter. The first episode in our new theme arc of failure isn't final, where we have learned something today from this movie that has catastrophically flopped. We would be greatly appreciative if you would not let this podcast flop. And you would share it with a friend on socials or even just word of mouth, does a great big lot for small podcasters like us. And if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll be currently seeing a picture of Ace, who is our third unofficial co-host and husky pup that belongs to Brash, but is loved by me also, and he'll be very sad if you don't. So there's a little guilt trip for you. I don't usually do them, but here we are. Next week, Brash, we are doing your favorite movie of all time, Aragon from 2006. I love dragons, but Brash hates this movie. So he's gonna hold all these comments off until next week's episode, but you can be sure that will be the synopsis of the episode, basically.
SPEAKER_02:And also, guys, I love you all. I'm not angry, just disappointed Speed Racer.
SPEAKER_00:He wanted Speed Racer. Our community picks are final. We do have our community picks coming up as well, which is content voted by you. If you want to be a part of those sorts of things as well and disappoint Brash even more, you can get on our social medias and vote for the movies that he wants or does not want, however you want to feel. But Aragon is next up, and we'll be learning all about or seeing what we can learn about from that flop. And Brash, I challenge you to find something that you learn from this. Yes, yes. Finding the weeks to come. That one will be out very, very soon. Guys, before we sign off, we always do our gratitudes. For me, I'm grateful for my football team friends here at the Townsville Cyclones. There's a great bunch of gentlemen there. This morning we went for a morning run, which isn't my favorite thing to do, but doing it with mates motivates me to do that. And they're a great bunch of lads to talk to. So thank you to the Townsville Cyclones. Thank you for the run club that happens on Sunday mornings, keeping me fit. They're all, I won't say incredibly younger than me, but there is between five and fifteen years age difference between our youngest and and oldest player. So I'm grateful that I'm able to spend my time with some amazing people that help my mental wealth being. But yes, your gratitudes, Brash.
SPEAKER_02:My gratitudes, I am grateful for Instagram reels. Recently those food ones. Where food makes yeah, where people just make like these weird foods or make foods, and then you have other people who try and make them and say and see if they slap or not. Very cool. I learned how to make Big Mac sauce because of that. I know. And I made I made my own Big Mac burgers. Very nice.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely delicious. So, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, that is it for our John Carter episode on Failure Isn't Final. Keep learning, keep growing, keep loving Phantoms. See you later, everybody. Bye.
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