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The Fandom Portals Podcast
"Welcome to Fandom Portals—the show that explores how your favourite fandoms can help you learn and grow!" 🎙️✨
Each episode, we explore TV, movies, comics, and games to reveal how these worlds and the characters in them help us learn about resilience, courage, friendship, and more.
The Fandom Portals Podcast is hosted by Aaron Davies and Adam Brasher, two friends who are obsessed with fandoms, storytelling, and building a community where passion and positivity come first. From Marvel to Middle-earth, Star Wars to indie comics, we dive deep into the stories you love — and how they help us learn and grow. ✨
The Fandom Portals Podcast
Treasure Planet (2002) Masculinity, Father-Son Relationships and the Impact of One True Connection | Failure Isn't Final
Summary
Aaron and Brash explore the themes of Disney's Treasure Planet, focusing on how past wounds can affect new relationships, the significance of kindness, and the complexities of masculinity as represented by John Silver. They discuss the film's unique animation style, the impact of its release timing, and the importance of trusting relationships in emotional growth. The conversation also highlights the role of Jim's mother and the transformative power of connection in overcoming personal challenges.
Theme Arc: Failure Isn't Final
Takeaways
Old wounds can affect new relationships.
Treasure Planet teaches about kindness and support.
Animation styles blend 2D and 3D effectively.
Timing and competition impacted the film's success.
John Silver represents complex masculinity.
Fatherhood themes are explored through Jim and Silver.
Connection can heal past traumas.
Jim's mother plays a crucial role in his development.
Trusting relationships are vital for growth.
Kindness can transform lives.
Chapters
00:00 Exploring Old Wounds and New Relationships
05:05 The Impact of Animation Styles
08:42 Pirates in Space: A Unique Blend
13:33 The Flop of Treasure Planet
18:48 The Role of John Silver
23:19 Character Depth: Long John Silver
29:12 Masculinity and Vulnerability in Treasure Planet
34:09 Father Figures and Emotional Connections
39:42 The Impact of Trust and Relationships
50:37 Lessons in Parenting and Emotional Availability
51:43 Exploring Jim and Silver's Goodbye Scene
53:03 The Significance of Departures and Attachments
55:42 Metaphors of Connection and Choice
58:26 Character Growth and Transformation
01:01:33 The Complexity of Silver's Character
01:08:09 Final Thoughts and Ratings
01:09:56 Gratitude and Reflections
Keywords
Treasure Planet, Disney, animation, fatherhood, masculinity, relationships, emotional growth, John Silver, Jim Hawkins, film analysis
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How often do we carry old wounds into new relationships without even realizing it? And what happens when someone finally shows up for you in the way that no one else ever has? In this episode, you'll learn how Treasure Planet shows that being the person that steps up for someone when the past has burnt them can make all the difference in the world. Welcome to the Phantom Portals Podcast, the podcast that explores how fandoms and film can help us learn and grow. I'm Aaron, a teacher and lifelong film fan, and each week on the podcast, we explore the stories we love to learn more about ourselves and the worlds that shape us. As always, today I'm joined by Brash Rackham. How are you, Brash? Hello, I am very well. Good to have you here, Brash. And we are here to talk about the third movie in our theme arc of Failure Isn't Final, where we talk about the movies that aimed high, stumbled, but still have something to teach us. From the misguided epics to misunderstood visions, this series will ask: what do stories that failed to find their audience teach us about ourselves? This week we are doing a community pick brash. We did a poll on our Instagram that lasted for it was a it was a fight bracket, like one of those cool fight bracket things. We do one of those. And you guys voted for this movie, and it was this and eight others or something like that. But this one came out victorious. It's Treasure Planet from 2002. So that's the movie we're doing. And before we get into our most valuable takeaways and to talk to you about what we're going to be focusing on for this episode, just a ground you brash is going to give you one of his famous synopses. So without any further ado, Brash, tell us all about Treasure Planet from 2002.
SPEAKER_01:What can I say? Treasure Planet, a space adventurer, featuring teen angst, pirate shenanigans, and questionable parenting. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, Jim Hawkins, a teenage disaster with great hair, is busy perfecting his life's passion, extreme sports that will inevitably cause property damage. His hobbies include brooding, skating on solar power death traps, and brooding while skating on solar power death traps. His life changes when a dying space pirate literally literally crashes into his workplace and hands him a glowing orb that essentially says, Hey kid, on an entire planet made of treasure and danger, press here. Naturally, Jim opens it and Jin uh Jim opens it, revealing a story long told to him by his mother. Jim ends up joining a magnificent steampunk space galleon, which is captained by Captain Amelia, a feline woman who is 90% charm, 10% Sass, and 100% out of Dr. Doppler's league. No matter what the universe. The crew, imagine hiring for a normal job, but your applicants all is exclusively people you'd never let house to your plants. They're all pirates, every single one, except for Dr. Doppler, who is what you get when you cross a golden retriever and a Victorian astronomer. Astromer? Most suspicious of all is John Silver, a cyborg cook with suspicious number of mechanical limbs and the vibe of a man who's definitely mutiny before breakfast. But he's also gives Jim actual life advice. So it's confusing for everyone. Jim and Silver, the this is definitely therapy arc, because Silver is told of Jim's absent dad. And Silver's just like, fine, I'll do it myself. What begins as a uh I will 100% betray you quickly turns into the most heartwarming father-son bonding montage in Disney history. There are lessons about responsibility, tough love, emotional eye contact, and shared trauma of having to deal with a malfunctioning robot who speaks exclusively in chaos. Silver and Jim bond so hard that even the audience forget Silver is uh is in fact planning piracy. And everyone who watches the movie now says, Why did this masterpiece flop? Well, because the universe saw greatness forming and said, absolutely not. Treasure Plan is like that beautiful, misunderstood friend who peaked after high school. Box Office disaster, absolutely. Cult classic, no doubt. If they ever made a live action remake, I think we'd all go feral.
SPEAKER_00:Very, very true. I think the biggest thing for me is definitely that animation style, which we'll probably talk about very, very soon. But a lot of compelling characters in this one, Brash, a lot of compelling characters, some of which will feature in our most valuable takeaway, which was that sometimes the greatest treasure is being someone who helps another recognize the wounds in their past and showing them that some kindness is needed for them to move forward into who they're supposed to be. We're gonna look at themes in this one, such as like coming of age through connection. We're gonna look at some aspects of fatherhood, masculinity, and the expectation of boys through the characters of Silver and Jim. And we're gonna look at specifically in terms of like men and fathers, the balance between ambition and compassion. And we're also gonna look at the power of like one impactful relationship on anybody's life, whether it be a boy or a young person that you're helping or a friend. So the power and impact of that one person, that could be you, or you might be the one receiving it. So that's our MVT, and we're gonna look into that very, very soon. But Brash, those first thoughts of this amalgamation of 2D and 3D animations. We'll start off with a threads commenter, MXXTCH. I don't know how to phonetically say that. Says it's certainly one of the few animated Disney features that actually deserves a chance for a live action remake.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I see that. Well, see, it is probably one of the Disney's greatest animated films. Let's let's be honest. But like like there's also other ones like you can't go past like Lion King. Oh, yeah. Like that's like one of the all-time grades.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I kind of watched this one and I hadn't seen it for a really long time. I probably watched it when I was 13 or 14. Didn't really hit. It was just like a video store rental. But then I watched it now, and I think the fact that I am now like a father and I work at a school with kids and I see these kind of relationships happening all the time, or these kind of patterns in young boys happening all the time. I think it hit me a little bit harder this time when I watched it. I think that it was really ambitious in 2002 to do a combination of animation styles in terms of the 2D, the 3D, and then there was also 3D CGI that was rendered to a flat piece. So all of Silver's like cogs and cyborg tree was the CGI that was rendered down into a flat. Yeah, and Ben as well. He was he was also rendered down into the flat. But then there was also obviously the ships and some of the background were were really obviously CGI, and it blended these these two things pretty pretty well together, I thought. Like it stood up to a 2025 viewing. But at the time, I'm not sure if that was so well received because I think Disney was moving pretty much forward into their 3D animation space after the success of like their Pixar runs of stuff.
SPEAKER_01:I l I love I love the because there's sometimes it's hit and miss, but I think they did it like extremely well. Because sometimes when you blend a 2D in with a 3D, it's sort of it feels really out of place, like you're basically putting like an old 2D cartoon over a flash new 3D modeled like world. Yeah, so it's yeah, um, but I believe they I think it's more of because of the colour patterns they use, they were able to blend it in a lot more to make it seem a bit more seamless. And uh yeah, I'm I was I was I'm really impressed with especially when they did it back in what I'm pretty impressed with what they were able to accomplish.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well I think that especially in the character design of Silver, like flat have a 2D animated character like Silver with some pretty flattened elements on him, and not having it stand out so much that because if you remember the scene where he's like cooking the soup for the first time, and everything's just impressive, it's quite quick, it's fluid, it blends both of those animation styles in so well, and it's like you see the intricacy of his hand and the like the expert design of that CGI animation, but then it's also obviously blended with the 2D landscape and the 2D design of Silver as well.
SPEAKER_01:I think that'd be the scene that I'd say like to everyone to watch, be like, that's what I mean. Like, just watch that scene and you'll understand exactly what I'm saying, how everything just sort of just all sort of they were able to like fade it and blend it all in together to make one whole cohesive like project.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think an another aspect for me that I really enjoyed about this, other than the characters and the sort of relationship dynamics and the themes present was the like the mashup of pirates and space. I think that always works well. I can't think of a time when it hasn't worked well and it hasn't hit for me. But also like futurist futuristic steampunk coexisting with a classic piece of literature such as Robert Lewis Stevenson's Treasure Island. I think that whoever was sitting at the boardroom and having that discussion was just like, okay, Treasure Island, but space is just like that. What a it's never been done before for one, but it's a genius idea, and it's only outranked by one Treasure Island adaptation, which we've spoken about before, and that is the Muppets version of the Muppet Treasure Island, which is is great. But I think adding that like steampunk element of it really gave some depth to the story, rebranded it for a new audience, but also like Jim was able to be shown as having more unique sets of skills present for like a modern audience, so it made him seem youthful compared to some of the pirates that were really good at like seafaring and working on boats and stuff. Like he had that mechanical acumen about him that obviously isn't present in the literature character, but they took what was good about Jim and they built upon it by giving him that little bit extra. So I think that was something that they did really well, also, and it blended well with the fact that they were using old school Disney animation and new Disney animation, pushing that together because it's almost like metaphorical. Because if you're looking at Robert Lewis Stevenson's Treasure Island being written way back in the early 1900s, I don't know the exact year, but it was early, like that's the old piece of literature, like the old 2D animation, and then blending it with the 3D animation, which is the steampunk, I think like it metaphorically fits together too. So it's pretty smart of the directors to actually go for this choice. That's Ron Clements and John Muscar to blend those two aspects.
SPEAKER_01:And um, I think it was a good choice too, because if you if you look at mo like pretty much all of the Treasure Planet, Treasure Islands and everything in all the literature for Treasure Planet, Jim is always a like 10, 9, 10-year-old kid. Yep. Like he's always like really young and honestly pretty useless in all situations. So where in this one they made him like a bit, they made him older and they made him more able to bond with I reckon bond better with Silver because he's able to actually like do hierarchy things that helps them bond together, yeah and more faring things that bond them together. Feel the fact that they made him aldo and more capable with already a set of like his own set of skills, yeah, that make made him sort of stand out more, I think, to Silva to make him want to be like, he there's more to this kid than me see I. And that's what sort of prompts him to actually get more involved with him.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I agree. And I think that making him older is also good because you can see a range of emotional arcs from him. Like obviously, he's the angsty rebellious teenager when we meet him, but he's got a history before that, which we explore in Treasure Planet, which then Silver taps into in a in a particular way. But I think without him being a teenager, the solid arc that develops for Jim across the movie, it wouldn't be as successful because obviously the heart of the story is the relationship between Jim and Silver. But that being said, there is more to that relationship now because Jim is able to make autonomous decisions as a teenager. He's got a personality of his own. He doesn't just imprint on an adult because he's a cool pirate that does dangerous things. Like there is actually a little bit of a psychological why as why they actually start to develop this relationship and why Silver then reciprocates that in return. So I think that that was a brilliant choice as well, because not only did it probably because I I definitely think this movie is targeted towards boys, like a boy audience, and probably around that age group, around the like the 10 to 15, 16 sort of year level. So making that protagonist Jim older also helps in that front. It helps them relate to the primary character in in Jim Hawkins as well. So I think it had a lot of things going for it, but we know that we're doing this film brash because it fundamentally flopped. It was budgeted to$140 million, which was the most expensive, I'll quote 2D animated movie that Disney's ever done to date. And worldwide, box office-wise, it only earned$100 million. So to Disney, including marketing as well, like a loss of quite a lot of money. They actually said that they wrote off$74 million for this movie, which is pretty significant. And I think one of the reasons for that was a lot of people have said, and some people on our our threads have noted this as well, that there was a crowded Christmas uh holiday movie bracket. Like this came out exactly the same time as Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I've got that reading here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Literally. So it it hundred percent had lots and lots of competition to to try and stand out in on a Christmas sort of market. And I think like we had a threader, Marshall Fisher 03. They said they totally kneecapped it for no reason, and Disney tried to push and go fully 3D, but they also released it during a time when they said that it was released during Chamber of Secrets, Spider-Man 2, Revenge of the Sith, all of these movies came out this same year, 2002, and it was just like it was not destined to stand out above those franchise IPs. And I think that's a real big shame because it's definitely rose in significance and appeal as people have started to re-evaluate it over time. And again, it's almost like people watched this when they were 12, grew up and started advocating for it when they were in their 20s to 30s, and then now it's getting this this resurgence, which I think is great because again, it was voted by you guys, our community, as one that you wanted us to do on the podcast. So it's got some popularity there, but it did indeed flop.
SPEAKER_01:And I I'm thinking back to it in 2012. I was 12, we were 12, and thinking back to those those sort of days, like it was almost to the point where we I think as a sort of generation had sort of stopped watching cartoons and were moving firmly into the live action movies, whatever they uh go to, like your Harry Potter's, your Lord of the Rings, and if you wanted something fantasy based, it was always like, oh, let's go look for the live action rather than the animated versions. And I think that would have and because it wasn't very m marketed very well either, I think it was that those two things of like just the time of the time of how it was, how watching a Disney cartoon now at 12 years old as a boy who seems very anti-masculine and yeah, not the cool thing. Not the cool thing to do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, which is funny because this movie deals with themes like that too. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Which we'll get into a bit later, but but I feel uh there it's just just the time the timing of it, I think, was rock. Because the directors said they weren't going to do Hercules unless they could do Treasure Planet afterwards.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because this was a passion project for those those two.
SPEAKER_01:But they wanted to do it years beforehand.
SPEAKER_00:Can't remember when I read that it was 17 years in the making, just from initial conceptual idea to actually premiere.
SPEAKER_01:So it was originally pitched in 1985 during the production. But they ended up doing the Great Mouse Detective, which also I love that movie too. Dang it movie. Love that. And then they tried again after directing The Little Mermaid, and then they said no, and then they instead had to do Aladdin. Then after directing Aladdin, they're like, Oh, can we do it again? And they're like, No, I want you to direct Hercules, and they're like, Alright, fine, we'll do Hercules, but we'll only do Hercules if we can do first plan afterwards, and then finally able to do that. So, and like Hercules was like what 1997, so then like, yeah, what five years later they would bring it out and bring it to life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I th I think this one was actually also more obviously experimental in terms of its animation, and I think that might have put off some like Disney traditionalists, you might say, because they were either always fully in the 2D camp or fully in the 3D camp, and this mixed both. Yeah. With that being said, though, Disney's always merged some form of computer animation, even the early classics like Aladdin when he's going through the Cave of Wonders, as it's yeah, that's the earliest, and even the Beauty and the Beast ballroom dance sequence, they've always sort of merged them well, but I think this one was more outward in its expression of hey, we are actually merging these two set sorts of animation styles. And I think like maybe that's a reason as well. But yeah, I think that the like you could say that there might have also been an ambiguous target audience. I think it was definitely for boys and teenagers, but that also might put off some people because as you said before, teenagers going to see animated movies might not be the the thing that happens, and you know, marketing this as like an adventure or a genetic a generic adventure movie may not have been the right course of action if that's the target audience you're going for. So I think there was definitely some some difficulties in terms of how this was portrayed, but I'm just sad to say and and sad to hear that because of this like flop status, it's not getting a second look in terms of a live-action remake. Honestly, I don't know if I'd like one. I'd watch it if it came out, but I don't think this needs one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it depends on what they do with it. Like if they go sort of down like the Lion King, Lilo Stitch root, and a true shot for shot and just botch it, or if they go like what's the like the only Disney movie that's actually got a lot of action, it's really good. Is there one Jungle Book? The Jungle Book? I'll I like Jungle Book. Yeah, they'd have to, they'd have to oh to do what they did, what DreamWorks did for how to train your dragon. Add it a little bit. Added a little bit, but pretty much kept the whole thing exactly how the animated movie went.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Well, we had some conflicting opinions on our threads as well, because as I said before, we had one threader that said this is definitely a Disney movie that deserves a live action remake. Atlantis as well was in that list. And then somebody could somebody else said Atlantis could get a live action, and then also not Disney, but Road to El Dorado could get a live action remake. Both of those movies also flopped, by the way. So I think like all three of those movies are pretty heavily tailored towards boys and less like kid friendly as well. So I think it could hurt could have hurt the movies, but I I like live action-wise, not a necessity for me because I think this story is best told as it sits right now. And I really do like the creative choice to blend those two animation styles for metaphorical reasons, but also like visually it looks good. So I'm happy with how it is.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe who shows his gym?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, these days you could go with like Mason Thames, who is like hiccup from how to train your dragon. You can go with him. You could definitely like if Joseph Gordon Levitt was younger, who is the voice actor for Jim Hawkins, like that's just he's perfectly played. So turn back time and give me that. Another one, hmm, I don't know. Maybe one of the Stranger Things boys. Well, I was actually thinking uh Timothy Chalonet. I don't think he'd do it though.
SPEAKER_01:I reckon he'd he'd be a good Jim.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I think so too, because he could definitely pull off the um The teenager look. Yep, and the the angst as well. He's got lots of emotional range, and he could definitely get into those sort of softer moments and pull out the emotionality too, because he's definitely a brilliant actor, but maybe Finn Wolfhart too, like he's pretty good, like from Stranger Things. Yeah, and he's got the physique too, like he's like lanky and teenage-looking too. So, yeah. We were talking as well, just off camera before we were doing this treasure planet episode about the importance of the character of John Silver, and we might sort of dive into our MVT now and sort of start there. So our MVT is sometimes the greatest treasure is being someone who helps another recognize the wounds of their past and then showing someone the kindness that they need to then move forward. And Silver does portray that role, but we said it's very difficult to portray a Long John Silver well, and we both agree that like Tim Curry in the Muppets version, absolutely phenomenal because he plays like villainous really well, but like villainous with a little bit of charm, and he also plays that tenderness really well, and all three are absolutely necessary for a Long John Silver persona. And, you know, this this version of Long John Silver is voiced by Barry Murray, and I think he he does a really good job of connecting us to the character early through the way that he speaks, obviously through pirate vernacular, but then our introduction to John Silver is him in the cook's perspective cooking up a meal for everybody, and then the filmmakers do this wonderful thing by pairing him with Morph to show his compassionate side, and he's always like very true and very honest with his opinions, and he seems very welcoming and polite and gentle, so they really like lure us into this sort of false sense of comfort with him. And I feel like Jim also felt that, obviously, being very skeptical from being warned about the cyborg, too. But I feel like Lon Long John Silver is, and I've said this on our threads, I think he's one of the greatest characters ever written by Robert Lewis Stevenson, but also portrayed in these movies, he has to be done right for it to be a success. So yeah, I I can't say enough good things about Silver.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, 100%. The only thing I wish a bit more of is because you don't get to see too much of it, but like in the scene where he has to go full pirate, I had I wished it had been a bit more uh more aggressive. Because even when he was gone off, it was just him just yelling and barking orders, it wasn't really him yucking. You can sort of like you saw it's just sort of sort of touching on his sort of actual pirate side. Yeah. Like when um when he tells off uh Scoop or whatever his name is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Scoop. Played by Michael Wincott, by the way, who is from The Crow. He's the villain in the crow. Insane deep voice, amazing for the character. What a what a character design too, just completely villainous and scary. Go ahead, Brash, sorry, I cut you off.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, that's fine. Um, but um, yeah, yeah. But he plays the charming swashbuckling father figure like so perfectly. Like every time he's like sitting there talking to Jim, and like even the way he speaks, you're like he he speaks talks like the old school long John Silver with a very thick pirate vernacular, but then just the tone of voice and just the depth of voice is almost like you could almost like close your eyes and hear your own father speaking. Yeah, sort of thing as a kid. Like he's just like that is just he was just perfect to a T. I just wish they had of somehow did more with his villainous pirate side.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, I think part of that is obviously because like it's a kid's movie for one, but for two, I feel like Long John Silver is a character and in this movie Treasure Planet, is he's a character that's in very much a lot of conflict because he's in conflict with himself. He's spent his life ambitiously seeking this treasure, which I feel like is him sort of self-validating his own importance and his worth. And in order for him to sort of get that and to fit into and to be seen as worthy, he has to be this leader of the pirates who is very boisterous, who is very menacing and fierce, and he has this reputation where everybody has to worry about the cyborg, and he goes and he like destroys the Benbo Inn, for example. And in these scenes that you see him around his pirate crew, he's very much posturing this hypermasculinity in front of the crew, and he's very much suppressing the feelings that he's having of genuine connection. Because when I first watched this movie as well, in some of the scenes when you're looking at him, and he's making these genuine promises to Jim later, when he's when he says, you know, if you give me the map, then we can I'll give you an equal share in the treasure. You're sort of questioning like, is this the genuine silver or is he just going to betray him? Are we waiting for a betrayal here? And I think he walks that line perfectly, but I think he does that because the message that's being portrayed here is obviously, and I think growing up as as as boys, me, me, for example, you're always sort of given the message from your friend group at least, and sometimes from people's parents, you know, stay tough, do it all by yourself, be strong. Like that's the the boy masculinity thing, the expectation of boys, and it's very common to this day. It's more more common in various different cultural settings as well. But I think I don't think Silver is being his true self when he is around his his pirate companions. And he says things like, you know, like he's going to do the same thing that happened to Mr. Arrow to Scroop. He's going to send him off and be and he always resorts to that sort of hypermasculine threats of violence, posturing a loud voice, yelling and screaming, throwing his weight around, transferring his cyborg arm into weapons, and just doing these really big threats as a as a means of portraying his power. But I think the true John Silver is the version that we see of him around Jim and when he's actually having those genuine conversations. And you're right, because he is extremely attentive to Jim's needs. He takes an interest in what he likes to do. He also like is genuinely concerned when he shows that he's upset. And I think also it's because he does see an element of himself in Jim as a young man, but he also shows this vulnerability and almost unintentionally a healthy sort of masculinity for Jim as he shows that compassion. You can see him cuddling up to more for not being afraid to show that he really likes this cute little adorable creature. He talks about family when he's first met and how it's an old family recipe, which also strengthens the connection there. But he even like compliments Captain Amelia as well. So he says, Yeah, you're as trim as a bonnie on a sloop with sails and a fresh coat of paint. And she's just like, keep that flim flammery to yourself. And he's just like, Oh, he goes, You cut me to the quick, Captain. I speak nothing but my heart all the time. And I'm like, that's actually probably true about him. Like he does speak honestly in that aspect. So I think for me, John really represents this man in conflict where of the man he's supposed to be to his community as a as what a man should be, and then who he actually is as a highly emotionally sensitive guy who really wants to show this vulnerable side but is unable to because he has this sense of worth that isn't being met, and he feels like finding golden treasure will do that. I especially like the scene where Jim asks him, So had that happened to you anyway? And he's referring to his his cyborg attachments, and he says, You give up with a few things while you're chasing your dream, and then Jim goes, Was it worth it? And then Silver goes, I'm hoping it will be. And I'm like, but that that just goes to show, you know, and it goes with the metaphor as well, you you give an arm and a leg for XYZ, whatever it is, and he's given an arm and a leg for this ambition, this treasure, this need to feel worthy, this want. But I also think that he's probably equally wanting that connection which he sees with Jim.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And like I would have liked because there was there's a scene in the Muppets version of Treasure Island where Jim and Silver are talking, and Silver makes a joke or something about Will's father. Yeah. Jim's father. And he's like, oh, sorry, boy, I didn't mean to upset you.
SPEAKER_00:He was only playing Jim. And he apologises too, doesn't he?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and he's like, um, he's like, oh, I my father died too when I was young, when I was eight, and he was a first mate. And then Jim's like, Oh, my father's a first mate as well. When he died, blah blah, and then that sort of like helped like bond them make that initial connection. They're both both roughly the same age when they both lost their fathers, blah blah blah, and their fathers were both doing the same job. And I think that helped like really cement their bonds. And I think something like that I think something like that probably would have helped me more believe that this villainous pirate would have a change of heart towards this kid, even though you do see like their bonds grow and he does sort of find this this thing, there's no real straight up side-by-side connection between these two, like sort of like the gym and the silver hat in the Muppets version. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they don't tell us how or why.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I would have liked to know why he sees a lot of himself in him. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I think um they do they do a little bit of that in this movie where like Silver tells him, Didn't your your pup ever teach you how to pick fights more carefully or something like that?
SPEAKER_01:And then he's like, Oh no, no, he just dad abandoned us, blah blah blah. He's like, Oh shit.
SPEAKER_00:And he's like, But yeah, I think that was that was them kind of alluding to the fact and I think Silver does apologize in that moment too. He goes, Oh, sorry boy, I didn't know that kind of thing. But he go he's he realizes that Jim has kind of grown up without a father in this aspect. But I also have noted, and it might be me reading into Silver's character a little bit too much, but on a few of the scenes you can see him just giving these sort of glances and looks that is animated in as well to Jim that shows that he's kind of being introspective. So if he looks like down to the left or whatever, or if he kind of looks at Jim and looks sorrowful, I took that as him being kind of introspective and reflecting on how he is or how he wants to be or how his own emotions or feeling at least a little bit of empathy towards Jim, which is obviously a feeling that pirates shouldn't have, or in this aspect, like like expectation of masculinity that isn't appropriate in his particular workplace, because he's very guarded about his interactions with Jim. Like they've been put together to work together in close quarters, and they're always seen side by side, and you can see them in that montage doing various different activities together, but it's even to the point where like Scroop teases Silver about his relationship with Jim. And you know, one of the last things that Silver says, because you know, Scroop sees him saying that he's got the makings of greatness in him, and we'll break down that scene a little bit later, too. But the last thing John Silver says in that moment to his mates is I ain't gone soft. So he's very aware that he needs to sort of keep up appearances in this part of his life, but I feel like that montage does a lot for us in terms of building that relationship between the two because it's a side-by-side, like it's a side-by-side comparison. And not only does it show the wound that Jim has, which is obviously his father leaving and abandoning him, but it also juxtaposes that, pushes it straight together with Silva showing up for him in the way that the father never did. And it never tells us why the father left, it just shows us that it like he did. And I think that that abrupt loss can, like in in a child's formative years, it can disrupt a child's internal working model to the point where they're not able to trust or be emotionally ready for other relationships, or they have this heightened expectation of disappointment and rejectment, and they can later develop rebellious or self-isolationist behaviors to the point where we see that in Jim. Like he grows up to be this rebellious, risk-taking young man who's brought back to the Benbo Inn by the mechanical police. And like even the last scene where he's riding his solar board, you see him like go up past through the atmosphere, metaphorical of him like breaking through the constraints of his life right now. He goes up through the atmosphere and then he like free falls down. Like that's a risky, risk-taking behavior, and it's almost like he doesn't really care because no one's really cared about him. He's got this detachment because he has learnt that having connection is hurtful. So I think that that combined with the fact that like you see the scene where he's running down the pier with his arm outstretched to a father that's going away, and then as he's like reaching out, you see a scene-for-scmash cut of Jim back when he's older, and then John Silver comes back in that sloop and holds out his hand for him to come with him. Like that that mashup combined with the the song who that was sung by the lead singer of the Goo-Goo dolls as well. Great, great artist. Those two things together, I think, build that emotional connection for the two characters for me. Like within that, I don't know how long it was, it was like a minute 40 or something like that. That did everything for me in terms of me understanding why they were so close. So I think that there was a lot of emotional setup that led up to that. And I think Jim's freeze response in that also tells us, you know, he's had a bit of a trauma reaction here, and sometimes kids will shut down and be emotionally protective after something like that. But I feel like Silver's actions after that really reflect that sort of presence that he was after. Because one thing and one thing I like thought about as well was yes, his father left him, but it seemed like Dr. Doppler was always there as a male presence in his life. So why didn't that connection happen for Jim? And why did he attach himself to Silver?
SPEAKER_01:So Well, you gotta look at the relationship sort of uh Dr. Doppler and Jim's mum sort of had. Like when he tries to interject himself to try and help Jim away from being in trouble with the robot police. And like, are you the father? And he's like, Oh no, I'm not, and she's like, No way, look at that. He's like, sort of, like, I don't know. Like that never happened. No, I don't think that he I don't think there was ever sort of like that. If anything, he was more like that, maybe like a distant uncle, or yeah, that's a good point too. Sort of sort of like something like that, where like he's been around for all his life, but whereas Jim's always been excited about adventure and all that kind of stuff. Doppel has always wanted to go on an adventure, but he's always been so in those in the books and academic that that's never really shone through. And I think that would make it a hard connection between a kid who wants adventure and excitement wouldn't really mesh with someone who's more stuck in a study and very learned. But that's also probably though how Jim picked up mechanical skills as well, maybe through the help of Doppler. We don't really know, but like for some reason he seemed he like must have like a natural natural sort of affinity for mechanics. But maybe it was the help of Doppler, maybe giving him books on them or something like that, or doing some sort of uncle-ish sort of things to help him grow in that sort of aspect, is why he's so good at mechanics.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I definitely think it was Doppler who is the reason behind Jim actually being able to activate that map. I think that was definitely something influenced by him, like going through gizmos and gadgetry like that. But I think you're right, in terms of like the friendly uncle or the guardian that's there, he's almost like, yes, he's a friendly presence, but Doppler is very like warm and nurturing also. And he kind of gets that from his mum as well. So it's almost like Doppler is is like a second helping, you could say, or a second version of his mum. So he's got two sort of people in that sort of space for him, but he doesn't really have that person who is the hands-on, adventurous role model for him that he kind of needed.
SPEAKER_01:Go in the I'd play catch person.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly, growing up. So I think he's definitely got these isolationalist sort of views and he's got this self-reliance that you can see has developed over time because he's built his own illegal solar thing that he sails around on. Windsurfer. Yeah, windsurfer. And, you know, he's got these what um what's the word for it? He's got these coping strategies, coping behaviors that he he needs in order to move forward. And you know, I think some of those coping strategies he may or may not have observed from from Sarah, his mother. Like she, you can see her just like emotionally suppressing it, and she's always like a hard worker. So maybe you could infer that she kind of swept it under the rug and like hold it together and do it all for Jim. But you know, research shows that talking about and expressing your emotions in a healthy way and feeling them when you feel them and talking them through with with kids at age-appropriate levels is actually helpful for getting through things in that way. So like Sarah's silent tears, although well-intentioned, may or may not have forced Jim to learn that suppressing those emotions is the way you get through hard times until he kind of like ends up meeting Silver, who's very much like a hard on his sleeve kind of guy, and you can see him like very happy. He'll express himself happily as they're engaging in communal activities. And like you can see this in in kids all the time. Like sometimes I'll in like a work setting, you can see them young boys that are extremely vulnerable are usually the most brazen and show the most bravado in the yard. And like it's not a one-to-one case, but sometimes that is a connection, and you can see them either disengaged or sometimes they're clingy with a trusted adult. Sometimes they overreact to like discipline as well, because they scan for signs all the time when they have this sort of interaction that um others will leave or others will hurt them, or connection is is tricky and difficult, but most of the time it's like risk seeking or risk taking behaviors as well. So I think that through this movie, obviously we see that scene through the the mashup, but then we also see John Silver sort of coming through and being it's almost like a one for one. It's it's it doesn't Jim's story doesn't really start with adventure, it starts. With learning that the people that need him most or that he needs most doesn't really choose to stay. So that scars him and shapes him for the rest of the movie. And his relationship with Silver slowly builds to fixing that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because like I I think one of my favorite, well, besides Amelia, because I think Amelia's like my favourite character, actually. She is just like just so quick witted and funny and just like Emma Thompson voices her so well.
SPEAKER_00:So good. I just like that she brought her sort of British vernaculars into it as well. She's like, I'll have a spot of tea and I'll be fine after she takes like a massive cannon bullet.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, as I've got nothing to worry about. But um uh Jim's mother, Sarah, her character is I've grown up with like with a lot of strong women who like my mother, and and I see like she a lot of Sarah in my own mother. She's very strong-willed and very like emotionally like keeps it all in, won't let anything out, no matter how tough it is, no matter how much of a little prick I was when I was a kid. Yeah. And I think watching it back in the day, I was just like, oh yeah. But then watching it like now, especially like today, and like I know I know a lot of mothers like I know a few mothers who are probably the strongest people I've ever met in my life, just purely because the amount of work and their work ethic that they do and they put in with little to no real give back. Um it's just yeah, I've always now that extra appreciative of characters like Sarah in these shows who sort of do their best, the best they can, all the time. And like you can still see Jim, like she, even though he never had that sort of father figure, Jim isn't like because they they try and make him out to be a troublemaker, but he's not like really a troublemaker.
SPEAKER_00:He's got a kind heart though, that's the thing. Like he's act he's acting out, but you know that he's a good kid.
SPEAKER_01:And and his acting out was he wanted to skateboard through the ball. Like he didn't know. Yeah, he didn't want to go out and kill people, he wanted to go out and like do anything like that. It was just that he wanted to do something dangerous because he feels like he needs to do that to be tough and get by and get through it and seek that sort of adventure that he's been craving for. And I think then John helps him bring that out. And then when John eventually uh betrays him again, when he realizes that he is that pirate that Billy Bones warned me about, he sort of, instead of him sort of falling into that sort of depressed, how could you, he sort of took the lessons that Silver taught him, and then also took lessons he took like growing up with his mother who's a strong character, and was like, you know what? Screw you. I'm happy who I are with who I am and who I've got. I don't need you, I'm strong on my own. And he sort of proves that towards the end when he sort of stands up to Silver.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. When he says, what does he say? There's one thing that you taught me, and it was to stick with it, or something like that. But I feel like you're right, it does also come from Sarah to the point where he he has enough determination within himself and obviously emotional drive to then go ahead and like change his future or work towards a future and work towards his dream, which let's not forget, like Sarah was the one that told him the bedtime stories in the first place and encouraged the like in quotes legend that he believed was true. So the seed of that adventurous spirit definitely belongs in Sarah, I would say, as well.
SPEAKER_01:So I think Jim's character, especially when he was younger, mistaked that seed from the father that Ben, because his father went off to go on adventures. And he probably mistaked that his father would rather have it would rather have adventures and go off and swashbuckle than be there with his family. I think that's the sort of the seed of why when he does all his uh windsurfing on the solar kite surfboard and why it's so dangerous and he's so like because he's trying to chase and see what that thrill is that is so compelling that it made his father leave and go off on an adventure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's so well said. I think you're absolutely right there.
SPEAKER_01:And then I think he realized later on that wasn't in fact his father, it was his mother and the people around him who encouraged him and made him who he is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I th I think that's definitely the case, especially in that moment where you know he is putting a lot of stock in Silver, and I feel like it's for good reason. Like Silver is definitely someone who's investing time with him. But when they do encounter conflict, Jim and Silver both kind of fall into old patterns, but I feel like Jim moves through it a little bit easier than Silver because Silver goes back to his hyper-masculine kind of yelling and posturing as he does. And you know, he says, if it's not done, if I don't have that map in my hands by nightfall, I'll like blast you with all the cannons that we have on the ship. So he definitely falls back into those patterns because I feel like he's been posturing or being this version of himself that really isn't his his true self for a little bit longer than Jim. And and Jim definitely sort of takes that into account as well. But before all this happens, I think that the turning point scene for both of these characters in terms of Jim and Silver is that scene you've got the makings of greatness in you, just like that scene between those two after a traumatic event, because in the movie, obviously, Arrow is lost to the black hole, and Scroop is the one that cut his line, but uh Jim was responsible for the lines. So, and you know, Silver has this inkling that that is what occurred, Scroop cut the line, but Jim is feeling very guilty and very forlorn at the aspect that this lost pirate or this lost crew member may actually be his fault. And I think the best thing that Silva does in that scene was obviously he's there for Jim, but he models this thing that we call like co-regulation, where you know, if a child shows distress or a and a caregiver's attuned to that response, they can either escalate or soothe the response based on how they act. And he kind of stayed calm, he stayed steady, he was in proximity, and he offered like a really genuine, heartfelt compliment. And it kind of affirmed everything that Jim kind of believed about him that was instilled by Sarah in the first place, and it was something that he needed to hear, and obviously by someone he respects. And as we talked about before, Jim is this hyper-vigilant character who's very attuned to feeling disappointment from connection from others as a result of this kind of wound that he has. And Silver saying that affirms that belief, and he slowly starts to open up to the point where like the moment for me was when he rests his head on his belly, and he was just like, He's he's a boy that needed comfort, and he got comfort from Silver, and Silver's like, What the heck is this? Like, what do I do here? And he like hugged him, and they had that moment of like connection, but the best part about it was that Silver doesn't try to be perfect, like he just did what he thought was right in that moment and did what he felt would be good for this boy that he is he's soft with, and it was actually exactly what he he needed. So I think the lesson and something I need to learn as well about being a father is I always try to be this perfect example or this perfect representation of a dad, so my kids can see me being a good man or a good person or good to my my partner Kalia, so they can model that in their own life. But I think what I learned from this movie and from watching Silver is that he makes mistakes. Yes, he's not perfect, but he always tries his best for one, and then for two, he's emotionally available and ready and responsive in a way that is needed when required. So it's not about being perfect, it's more about being present with your time and yeah, showing up emotionally as well. So I think that that was the turning point of resilience for Jim because after that he sort of his possibilities expand. And you can see it happen in my workplace too, when you have these kids that really just don't want to connect, don't want to engage with the learning. There's like things you can do in terms of like building trust with that kid is the biggest thing that you can do. So that doesn't have to be like big grand gestures, it's micro connections over an extended period of time. So it's like two to three positive interactions a week you could do. So instead of like it might be the kid that's always in trouble for one, but if you're the person that always talks to him about how his footy game went on the weekend, whether he's been a good kid or whether he has showed some behaviors that aren't what is acceptable, whether you are still the person that talks to him about footy, whether he does that or he doesn't, it shows that you are invested with that child based on their identity, not on their behavior. And that's exactly what that child needs in order to then open up and then create those opportunities for agency and like meaningful strength-based relationships that provide them with learning opportunities for the future, but also to get a little faith back in the people within a system that they may have seen lots of them treat them in a different way, for example. So I think that's what Silver does too in that montage where he's like teaching him how to tie a knot, peeling potatoes together while they're just sitting next to one another. And then, yeah, creating those opportunities as well for like for Jim to connect through a shared activity, but also for him to show his what's the word, prowess or skill, because you know how he's like teaching him how to ride that long boat, and then he just takes the the reins and goes. Yeah. So I think that's really important in that aspect of why Silver unintentionally connected with Jim in the way that he exactly needed when all he did was kind of be himself. And I also like in that scene because he praises his identity, not his performance. So he says to him, and you can do this with kids as well, you can say, like, praise them for how thoughtful they are, or praise them that they're being generous or kind instead of like you won the race. You could say, I really like the effort that you put in. And I think Silver does that when he says you have the makings of greatness in you, and then later on he says, Look at you shining like a solar flare or solar. Yeah, yeah. So he's he's commenting on the things that make Jim's identity who he is, not based on whether he's a good pirate or whether he's a good sailor. He cares for him whether he makes a mistake or he he he feels about him the exact same way. So I think that that was probably my favorite scene in the movie, and it's definitely a famous one. You see it going through the the rounds all the time. All right. The we've and that's also shows just how impactful one trusting relationship can be for an individual as well. And that could be a friend, it could be a child, it could be somebody your own age, it could be an elder as well. And it's just, yeah, that that faith that he had in him and to be there when he needed him was exactly what he what he needed. So I think the last scene that I kind of want to talk about in Jim and Silver's relationship is that goodbye scene at the end. And I know you like, what are your thoughts on this?
SPEAKER_01:Because you said you didn't really like because it felt a little bit rushed, but I'm talking specifically about No, I I don't mind I don't mind I don't mind them saying they're like their goodbye sort of scene because that seemed like on like it's basically as soon as I go back to the ship, he's like, uh I'm out of here before I'm in jail. So and that that that that it was just after that it seemed rushed, like there was no sort of explanation or no montage, it was just them all just going back to this newly built building where people are pregnant and had kids.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, right, right, right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like they just had just like jump forward however long that was, and it just yeah, it was just a bit too quick for me. I would have liked to see like maybe like the building under like a montage like the building being reconstructed, or maybe like Mamilia and the Doctor getting married or something, but um the silver and uh Jim sort of parting was like was pretty spot on with how even the movies went. Where yeah, Jim helps him escape or lets him escape and he sails in sunset and he calls back, wishing him all the best, and everything like that, and you'll see him around the solar system and pays off.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well I think that for me that's the like for Jim, he experiences that departure again with a father figure, you could say, but this time it's like it's it's a departure and it's not like a betrayal. So it's the the difference there like that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, this one's it's a goodbye.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and there there is a secure attachment between those two now as well, because they've they've shown up for each other during an experience where obviously they'd relied on one another, and Jim was consciously chosen by by Silver. Like if you flash back to the scene where he's literally choosing between the gold or Jim, like obviously it's a Disney movie, he's not gonna let Jim fall to his death, and Silver goes off with the gold, like what a vicious ending that would be for us to watch.
SPEAKER_01:But I do like I'd like to point out that I I do also equivalate the fact uh how much Silver ends up liking Jim to Morph as well. Yeah. Because it was Morph who like sort of nudged him when he was like, hold on to the sloop to say, hey, Jim's in trouble, and then he sort of like turned and his his idle cyborg eye to spot him and goes, damn, and then has to make a decision. Because if Morph hadn't attached him on the shoulder, he would have just been there holding on to the ship and Jim could have fallen and he wouldn't have been noticed. Yeah, but it was that more it was that more because I think Morph Morph was sort of like their tether in a way, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And also I feel like metaphorically they kind of conscience toward each other.
SPEAKER_01:So if you remember that scene where they're fighting over the map, and then yeah, could be could be in there both like tons of well that was adulted to that scene.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, was it? Yeah, yeah, because I think that that that shows like that they're wrestling obviously with the affections of Morph, but also with what they're sort of going for, like the map or the connection with with with Morph is what what what are they going for? The connection with the map.
SPEAKER_01:Who has a strong connection?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and that's who Morph would have gone for because that's all he cares about. He's not a little being that benefits from gold at all. But I think like Silver holding on to that barge of gold with his mechanical cyborg and then reaching out to Jim with his normal alien, like humanoid. That's metaphorical too, because you can look at it like it is a cold and calculating choice to go for the gold, just like his cyborg, and it is a warm and human and feeling-based choice to go for Jim. And obviously, he tries to do both, and you can see him looking both ways and obviously pained by it. He goes, What sort of fool am I? And he goes and he he gets to Jim. But you know, even before that, I kind of knew that that was the decision he's going to make because he had the opportunity to get the the map multiple times. Like he had Jim lined up in his sights, he could have taken a shot at him, he didn't even try. And you can see him like look away and be like, ah, damn it. Because so you knew, like, as soon as Jim was in trouble, he was going to go for that. So I think Silver all along knew that that relationship was more important than the gold, which I think is a really great revelation for him because obviously he's lost so much, an arm and a leg, but in his later life through meeting Jim, he learned that the connection was the real prize over the over the actual treasure. So yeah, I think that like reward is never found in the treasure that we chase. I think it's more in the people that we choose, and that was exemplified in the end scene as well. But I like it because Jim starts to show more signs that he is kind of repairing as well. So he has reduced defensive behaviors, he has those subtle acts of trust where he will let silver go. You can see him also you could say healthier risk taking because he does go and then try to join the guard or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01:And you know, like a role like the Royal Space Navy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And you can see this in ki in kids too when you're sort of trying to work with them, when you're starting to see that repair occurring, they might show care in disguised ways. So, like they might bring you like something small, like you could find a snack on your table or something like that as a teacher, or you know, they could ask you or call you a nickname that you you're you're not used to. Like, for example, Jim calls at the end, he's just like, see a lady a scallywag or something like that. So he's showing that care in a disguised way, showing he's opening up to that the fact of the relationship. But also visually, I've seen a lot of posts that show Jim at the start of the movie and he's wearing like all black and a really dark vest and coat, and he's just like really forlorn into himself, and he has animated bags under his eyes. And then combine that with the ending image where we see him all in white in very pristine sort of outfits, his face looks less forlorn, like he's he's got that sort of repair happening, and he's letting himself be seen for positive things, like he's showing up more authentically in the world, he's not showing any sort of sadness, he's happily taking part in events at the Benbo Inn, where you can see him like dancing around and enjoying cake, and and he's also like being vulnerable in moments with with Silver, like they both cry. But interestingly, you see Silver as well, he's just like, Oh, I must have some grease in this cyborg guy. So you can still you'll see that he's just like still too masculine to cry, or all habits die hard, but you can see his connection there with Jim is growing. So these are two characters that are transformed by each other. I absolutely love that because I'm a character guy, and I think that there is so much to learn from from these two characters, but especially Silver. Like, I feel like I relate to him more as an older person now than I did way back, because yeah, Jim was my guy when I was watching the Muppets one, and then now it's Silver, so funny how things like that change.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm I'm still on the thought you you you feel he's he was changed, man, and all the things I still am on the side of he was always a pirate, he was always a bastard, and he did uh eventually care for Jim in a way of like it was like a son he never had, but more so to try and because he's always like come with me, lad. Um to reach his own means, yeah, like like for his own end, and like why not have the treasure and have your little comfort pet son with you as well. Well, that's definitely what he went for through the middle of the movie, and then definitely until he was like, Because like even when um like if if I if I wanted to be more convinced that he genuinely had strong emotion, was always going to choose Jim, when they're going to shoot the ship down, I would have liked to hit like more him to be that accidental worry come out of him and him be like, don't shoot, he's on the ship. And then when they sort of like his heart grew to sort of look at him where he's like, He's got the map, we'll lose the map. Like, I would probably be more convinced, but his shabbies is like, don't shoot it, they've got the we'll lose the map. And then that yeah.
SPEAKER_00:See, I took it that way initially I took it the first way that you said initially, when you said it that way. I was kind of looking at Silver, going, Oh, he's saying that he shouldn't shoot Jim's ship down, and he's using that line afterwards to cover up the fact. That he really just doesn't want to shoot Jim because he had the opportunity to shoot him before that and he and he didn't for one. But then also like at the end when they're they're coming up with their escape plan, one thing that Silver does then is like he advocates for the adults in the room to trust Jim and his ingenuity to get them out of the coral. Yeah. So I feel like he does have that faith in him to the point where like, and there are definitely moments I do agree where you do wonder whether Silver's allegiances lie with the gold or with Jim.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, isn't that isn't the point though? That's the thing. That's the point, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:And I think for the audience, that's the dance you do, and it's the exact same dance I did, honestly, with Jack Sparrow when I watch Pirates of the Caribbean. I was like, is this guy on my side or is he gonna betray it? Like, and I think that's the beauty and why I love pirate media so much, is because it's just that you never know where the human whether it's too far buried to come out or whether it is like hiding under the surface to all this posturing and and false masculinity. But I think in this case, I like to believe that Silver was an advocate of the relationship with Jim from the start. I feel like he was a good guy that and he he probably did exactly what Jim did. Like he he made these reckless choices in order to fill something like a hole that was in him. Like in the Muppets version, we know that Silver's father also died or or left. So maybe he was also doing that risk-taking behavior in order to fill that void. And he always was that sort of sensitive soul underneath. So I like to see Silver in that in that sort of light.
SPEAKER_01:Well there was a possibility we could have sworn that for the Treasure Planet 2. Um because there was gonna be a two. Yeah, there was gonna be a two, and it was gonna show partially um uh Silver's backstory and then jump into the after Treasure Planet, where Jim was going to reunite with Silver to take down Iron Beard, which I'm I'm assuming would be like the Blackbeard equivalent for Yeah, the Edward Peach of Treasure Teach version of Treasure Planet who was going to be voiced by William Defoe.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that would have been sick. So it definitely wouldn't clash because obviously Michael Wincott would be gone with Scroob, so the voices got a very similar voice.
SPEAKER_01:I think from what I read, and Ironbeard already had a history. I think it was Silver and his actual had a love is love interest, and he sort of goed her and sort of left her behind to go join the pirate crew of Ironbeard, and then after several raids and that and how vicious and how cruel and how much Ironbeard how cruel and vicious he was and how much he skimmed everyone else on uh payment except for himself, and how much he took for himself and not gave to the rest of the crew. Silver tried overthrowing him, and Ironbeard cut off his arm and his leg. And probably his eye as well. Yeah. Because Iron Beard's also a cyborg, well, he was human and then eventually became more and more cyborg as well. So he would have been more machine than Silver was. Yeah, yeah. And then but he sort of hard he sort of made Silver become part machine as well.
SPEAKER_00:But one thing that is also a thing that movie goes like movie makers do is they position two characters to be the opposites of each other to show the growth of one. So if you're looking at Silver compared with with Scroop, for example, Scroop is obviously the pirate pirate who is extremely aggressive, extremely threatening, extremely like masculine to the point where he is just really violent in his sort of mannerisms, ruthless, yeah, fearsome as well, and he has power due to that fear factor that he does. Whereas Silver is presenting as that, and I feel like that's the opposition that the audience sort of sees through these two characters. Silver presents as that, but really you see that underside to him where he's got that kind heart and that gooey centre, and he's got that love for morph. Scroop, on the other hand, absolutely would never do that, and he would only because whenever Scroop did it, like remember when he said that we've lost Mr. Arrow and you could see him almost going to the captain in crocodile tears or or lobster tears, and you're just like, what a load of crap. Like it's completely like that. I never felt that way with Silver's interaction. There was almost like a oh, is it or is it not? But when you looked at Scroop, it was always this has an agenda behind it. He has a definite gold-based agenda. He's here for the money. There is nothing that he cares about more than that. Because yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, if you look at Silver in other media too, like take Black Sails for instance in that. He's very charming, he's good with his words, he's good at storytelling and all that kind of jazz. But he's he was never he was never really a pirate. Like he was never really like a vicious Star Wars sailing expert. Uh like a violent person. So like if he needed to, he would he would defend himself and if he needed to a fight when he needed to, but he was he was always more so using his words and using his ability to persuade others to be on get on his side. And I think even in Treasure Planet, he is the same. Like he is he's a very good at manipulating and using his words to get what he wants. So like convincing like the rest of his crew that he hasn't gone soft. Yeah. Using that by being all bravado and saying how he'll cast Scrooge out out into the thing like he did Mr. Arrow and like more threatening rather than that, even though he does have the mechanical side to back it up. Like you can see, and I think with the if they had it on the second one and you saw his backstory, you would have seen how like he wasn't really like that kind of a vicious pirate, like Troop is like the the Iron Beard character would have been, and he would have been more like yeah, every other sort of iteration of Silver where he's more charming rather than a ruthless person.
SPEAKER_00:I first before we move on from that, I just want to shout out Luke Arnold, who's an Australian actor who does play John Silver. Very talented man. Yeah, he he does play a really good part in Black Sales. So if you haven't checked it out, go and check out Black Sales if you like pirate stuff and give some love to Luke Arnold. Also a great author. He's written some really good um urban fantasy books. But yeah, with the John Silver, in the actual original novel, it is always portrayed that he is the one that ends Arrow or kills Arrow in some sort of way. And every version I've seen, whether it be the Muppets version or Treasure Planet, has steered away from that. And I feel like they do that intentionally because that would divide the audience in terms of whether they think that Silver was a good man or an evil man. Like killing is a pretty definitive because you could be like, yeah, he cares for Jim, but he also killed Arrow. So what are we I can't like him? So I think that's a smart choice when you're talking about film to from book adaptations. I'm not sure how it played out in in Black Sales, but I do know that that was that was definitely a change that they've made from here. And it probably would have made him seem more ruthless, but I think it at the cost of that would have been the loss of the relationship arc that he had with Jim and Silver and the audience believing that too. So all right. Let's go to rate it brash. Let's do that. Alright. So for me, I'm not beating around. I gave it five out of five, which if you're a Phantom Portals person, this is probably like the seventh movie that I've given five out of five. So I want to thank you guys as a community for voting it in. I hadn't seen it for a while. I'm not sure, like, if I saw this when I was a bit younger, I may not have given it as much as I did. But I love the combined animation style. I love the relationship between Jim and Silver. Five out of five is what I gave it, and I'm proud to say it. Brash.
SPEAKER_01:Four out of five. No, sorry, sorry, four point five out of five. Okay. Because uh that 0.5 is pure because I didn't like their rushed ending of them just having a party and people have kids.
SPEAKER_00:Alright, so with a five out of five from me and a four point five from Brash, this has an average of four point seven. So this is second in our Phantom Portals honor board. It is second after Forest Gump, and it has knocked Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 down to third place. So with that in mind, like hard to believe it flopped initially, but also there is definitely a resurging audience for this movie. I did also watch this with with River. His favourite was Jim, and he's getting to that age now. This is moving into my gratitudes, too, actually. So we'll move into gratitude. Yeah, grateful that River and I are starting to watch movies together, sharing something that I I love with him, and he also loves watching movies. And, you know, he he also kind of humbles me to the point where like I I feel like through my work I've got all this expertise in how to deal with children at various different developmental ages, and I can help them in whatever they're going through. But like he has this really good way of humbling me and making me realize like, wait a minute, bro, you don't actually know that much because every kid is different, and obviously there are still lots of things that I have to learn. He helps me grow, he's unashamedly himself all the time. He's so joyful, and you know, he's he's at that stage where he was asking questions through the through the movie, which I know is like annoying for people, but he was asking all of the right questions. Like he he was saying, like, is Jim's mum gonna go on the ship too? And I was like, probably not. And then he at the end, like he said, Why isn't Silver staying with Jim? So I was like, Okay, like he's actually getting this. And I was like, How do I explain this to a four-year-old?
SPEAKER_01:But if he had stayed, he'd have to go to prison.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, I said that. And he's just like, and then the next question came, which was what's prison? I was like, okay, here we are. So yeah, I'm I'm grateful for my my son. And I think that's that's kind of relevant for the episode that we did, but also like the not just the fact that I can watch movies with him, but the fact that he challenges me every day in a very good way. He helps me grow, and I'm so proud to be his dad, and I'm so glad that he's my son. All right, that's been our episode, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls on Treasure Planet. Thank you so much for that community pick. If you want to engage in those community picks, we've decided to do more of those. There is going to be one coming up for our Christmas episode. We're going to let you decide which Christmas movie we do. So go ahead and join our Instagram, which is at fandomportals. We do them all on there. A lot of the comments that we read out come from threads. So definitely come and be a part of our community and and yeah, join the fun. Last year we did Red One. It was Brash's first ever episode on, and we just picked that one. It wasn't a community one, and it's yeah, it was a good way to kick off. But we want your Christmas recommendations. That is definitely for sure. So that would be greatly appreciated if you came and joined us on our shows. Next week, however, we are going to be looking at the final film in our arc, which is Failure Isn't Final. And it is another community pick, another movie that flopped. It is Batman and Robin, the one with George Clooney. You guys picked this one out over another eight movies. It was definitely the one that came out on top. This one here technically didn't flop, but it was definitely under received and killed the franchise. So I think it definitely fits in our theme arc of value isn't final. That's me signing off. Make sure you tune in for that episode and join us on socials if you want to hear from us in between. Keep learning, keep growing, and keep loving fandoms and film.
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